I've failed

[MichaelP]

I've failed... I have tried and I have tried and I have failed.

Yesterday morning the storm was blowing strong... It's 06:00 and I am there remaking the knots and tying the ropes up tight.
Let them snatch and they will fail, ropes should be tight and you are not strong enough to break a wing!

Last night I checked them again, got really soaked and wind blown.

The Cherokee left beside the SportStar had its starboard tie down released and it swung on the port side rope into the wind... One of our instructors had chocked it, at least someone was thinking.
There's an SR22 parked outside, no tiedowns at all, but it is downwind of the Aero Commander twin which provided a convenient wind break.

This morning I look over at the Cessnas parked outside and all of them have turned on their ropes...
The one aeroplane in the line that has not turned, but has maintained its position, is the Citabria, but the Citabria is looked after by Bob, and Bob is an old aviator.

So this morning I arrive here to find nobody here.
I check our aeroplanes and all appears to be well.

But where are the other school's instructors???

They cry, their money is poor, their days are long, it's a bad life being a flying instructor.

But do they really care?

In my 20's I'd be down at the airfield first break of day to check everything over.
Now the people who call themselves instructors don't give a damn. They don't give consideration to the aeroplanes that they earn their meagre wages in.
I've failed to get people to use a good simple knot on a tight rope.
I've failed to enthuse instructors enough to be out here checking the aeroplanes around after a storm.

[AuxBatOn]

Michael,

Just playing the devil's advocate here, but...

Would you pay them just to show up and check the airplanes out? Do you think they would give a "damn" if they were paid more than a "meager wage"?

[MichaelP]

Pride and belief in what we do is not something that can be associated with money.

It's a question of whether we care about what we do.
If we don't care then we shoudn't be doing it at all regardless of however much 'money' we do or do not make.

[AuxBatOn]

Pride and belief in what we do is not something that can be associated with money.

It's a question of whether we care about what we do.
If we don't care then we shoudn't be doing it at all regardless of however much 'money' we do or do not make.

Sorry to burst your bubble Michael, but if someone isn't happy with how you treat him/her as an employee (being the nicest boss on the planet is not going to cut it if money isn't sufficient to provide a decent quality of life), he will not care about your company's property. If they had a decent salary and working conditions I can almost guarantee you that those intructors would have been by your side. If not, they will be there when they get paid. Otherwise there is no reason the be at work if you ain't getting a dime for it.

[beast]

+1

You get what you pay for in this world, Michael

When I was an instructor, I worked for $12/flight hour.
I prided myself on being a safe pilot and effective instructor.

I felt no devotion to the CFI, his company, or his airplanes
(when I wasn't flying them)

Does that make me less of a professional?
I don't believe so - I understood the extent to which that organization appreciated me and I reciprocated with equivalent effort

[loopa]

I'm with Aux on this one.

An employer can't expect anything more from an instructor if the kid at mcdonalds is making more money / year than him. As for belief and all that talk about passion for flying, I feel that in this industry, the work actually becomes a JOB sooner than some people realize. It's unfortunate. But having a class act employer like yourself Mike is rare; so I would expect your instructors to show up. But when nothing but the dreams of the low time instructors have been shattered, I honestly don't think there's much motivation to care about anything than the job itself; sometimes not even that.

I don't know, I'm not an experienced pilot, but that's the feel I get with people in this industry. Especially many of my friends that have started out in this industry with a low timer job. I on the other hand am still that "fresh" lad looking for a job, so I'm hopeful

On the other hand, I believe that attitude and diligence goes a long way. There simply are people in this industry who are careless and don't really deserve to be working, yet they are. On the other hand, you have people with good intentions, but are turned to their bad side because of horrible employers.

Overall, it's sad. Whether you've failed or not, it's sad.

[Shiny Side Up]

Pride and belief in what we do is not something that can be associated with money.

It's a question of whether we care about what we do.
If we don't care then we shoudn't be doing it at all regardless of however much 'money' we do or do not make.

I'm going to let you in on a secret Michael. When it comes to employees, money talks. You can say all you want about enthusiasm for your job and trying to pass it on, but if you don't back it up with money it comes out as hollow. As a boss the biggest and hardest hitting way you can say to your employee you're enthusiastic about something is put your wallet where your mouth is. The biggest part of this secret is that it doesn't take a lot of money. People are the cheap part of running a flying operation. When it comes down to it compared to my fuel costs, insurance costs, lease costs and maintenance costs and everything else, the wages are peanuts.

It takes a very small expenditure on wages to make drastic improvements in morale. Happy employees are productive employees who care about their job. If you give them extra, they'll give you extra.

[Road Trip]

Pride and belief in what we do is not something that can be associated with money.

Classic quote from an operator. This line has been used for years to blackmail and guilt pilots into working for free.

Michael you get what you give. If *None* of you're employees are respectful, dedicated caring, energetic and motivated then I gotta wonder about the employer not the staff? After all what's the common denominator here?

Let's have a look at this post for example. Here you are on a public forum, bashing your own employees. I can't imagine a more classless, unprofessional, disrespectful way to deal with a situation than to flame, shame, guilt your own staff in public.

Yes by your own words "You have failed." You might want to take a step back and ask why that is and make some positive changes for the future.

If your actions here are any example of how you interact with your staff at work I suspect the lack of respect and dedication for the job you perceive your employees to have has roots not just in the meager wages but also in how you've been treating them.

To all employers and operators. You want respect and dedication then start by giving it.

[Bushav8er]

Hummm.
This attitude has sweet dick to do with pilots alone. It has to do with todays work ethic (or lack there of) and the 'want,want'. It's why employers now have to spell out what is expected and for how much. In the past if you showed some responsibility and initiative you would be noticed and compensated.
Maybe I'm old fashion but I used to go as far as drive back to work (float base) and check the planes if a storm came up unexpectedly. I'd often get soaking wet as I threw on more lines and re-tied others - even checking the dock was secure.
It just seemed the responsible thing to do. I had no idea if anyone else was going to do it, so I went. Besides, it was my knots that secured the aircraft when I left, I should see that they are holding.
And what if, just if, the knots and lines didn't hold? How much would I be paid if the aircraft were damaged and I was out of work?

I have to side with Micheal here. Grow up people and show some responsibility. That's one of the problems today - people expect pay for everything. How many of you have walked by on by something that you know was wrong or needed attention and just let it go as 'not my problem' or 'responsibility'; 'I don't get paid for that'? F*ck

[MichaelP]

I'm not bashing my instructors; far from it.
They made sure our aeroplanes were tied down properly last night and even secured a wayward Cherokee Warrior last night!
I checked the aeroplanes again last night in the dark wind and rain and they were OK.

Read my words again and don't read into them what you want to, only what they actually say. I've edited them for clarity!

There was nobody here from the other schools that I could see.
The Cessnas of two schools have moved about as their ropes were not tight. This in spite of their CFI's trying to get the instructors to tie them down properly.

Me, I'm an outsider I suppose, I'm from a generation of students who learned responsibility for the aircraft we flew... Regardless of what I am being paid, or whether I'm being paid I will secure other people's aeroplanes properly.
It's not the aeroplane's fault that we are not paid.
It is the aeroplane's fault that we get to enjoy flying and so why wouldn't we look after what we allege we love?

At another school I walked in and grabbed an instructor and we tied that school's aeroplanes down securely; few of them were tied down properly.
This among other things prompted the thread on here about tying knots.
This site is very good for disseminating information and sharing information, it could be a positive medium for doing this.

My appeal is for instructors to take responsibility for their aircraft.
These aircraft provide them with pleasure and a job regardless of how bad the employer is.

As instructors we are examples for our students.
Would a PPL be inclined to look after his/her aircraft properly when away from base if the instructor shows that it's not worth bothering with at home base?

[SuperchargedRS]

...but if someone isn't happy with how you treat him/her as an employee he will not care about your company's property. If they had a decent salary and working conditions I can almost guarantee you that those instructors would have been by your side. ..... Otherwise there is no reason the be at work if you ain't getting a dime for it.

Written as a true "Rank and File" employee. Taking pride in what you do (REGARDLESS OF WAGE) is the sign of someone who has mastery of their trade, and who is a COMMODITY to a operator and someone who will just walk up the ladder of operators to the higher paying gigs.

Regardless of how much you pay me I will do excellent work. Now if I get a better job offer I will let the boss man know, ask him if he wants to try to outbid the other guy and if not I'll take the higher paying gig.

In our profession you have many pilots, however not many guys are artists, people say they have passion, but few demonstrate it!

I could see someone like the original poster owning his own op one day.

Some of you other guys are just labor and post as such.

[AuxBatOn]

Written as a true "Rank and File" employee. Taking pride in what you do (REGARDLESS OF WAGE) is the sign of someone who has mastery of their trade, and who is a COMMODITY to a operator and someone who will just walk up the ladder of operators to the higher paying gigs.

The problem here is that the instructor is not paid to show up and check out the planes. In most FTU, AFAIK, it's paid by the flight hour or ground briefing hour. If you want the employees to show up and help, pay them. The FTU isn't a charitable organization. It makes money. The employees should be compensated.

If we take this example to an other industry, oh, let's say construction industry. After a big storm, the boss finds out one of the machinery equipment is f'ed up. He calls in the mechanic to take care of it. Do you think the mechanic will do it for free, so to speak? No, he will be compensated for the help. That's how things work.

Now, if you want to get rid of the issue altogether, give your instructors a base salary and tell them "you will be in the office 40 hrs a week." Make a schedule that will fill out every day of the week with all the instructors you have. Or pay them by the hours they are in the office. Make them do some office work if they don't fly (ie: work on the syllabus, read up on stuff, etc).

Regardless of how much you pay me I will do excellent work.

Even if you are not paid?

In our profession you have many pilots, however not many guys are artists, people say they have passion, but few demonstrate it!

That's exactly what put this industry in the weeds. Passion, and the exploitation of said passion by the employers. We try to defend pilots against companies to take advantage of pilots (paying for training, shit pay, etc), but yet, people here say that instructors should show up to the airport, unremunerated, because a storm hit the airport and we have to check the airplanes. To me, that's working for free. And it isn't different than working for an operator that will charge you 2000$ for training on a 182 and no remuneration to drop skydivers out of an airplane.

Leave the passion for when you are flying for fun. When you are working for someone, it's... well... work.

[Shiny Side Up]

Maybe I'm old fashion but I used to go as far as drive back to work (float base) and check the planes if a storm came up unexpectedly. I'd often get soaking wet as I threw on more lines and re-tied others - even checking the dock was secure.
It just seemed the responsible thing to do. I had no idea if anyone else was going to do it, so I went. Besides, it was my knots that secured the aircraft when I left, I should see that they are holding.

The way I look at it is I wouldn't expect anything out of my employees that I wouldn't do myself. With that in mind, a bit of reward goes a long way to making sure good work ethic stays there. In the above example if I knew you as one of my employees did such a thing, I'll make sure it shows on your paycheck - nuff said. As the boss its very important to me to make sure that they know I appreciate it when they go the extra mile.

And what if, just if, the knots and lines didn't hold? How much would I be paid if the aircraft were damaged and I was out of work?

You might be out of a job, but as the owner, I'd be out of business. In my mind the effort to keep me in business is worth a few bucks.

Written as a true "Rank and File" employee. Taking pride in what you do (REGARDLESS OF WAGE) is the sign of someone who has mastery of their trade, and who is a COMMODITY to a operator and someone who will just walk up the ladder of operators to the higher paying gigs.

I hate to say it, but the business of aviation, and especially when it comes to flight training has to start thinking more about the money. Aviation has gotten into such a bad spot these days because both operators and employees haven't kept this in sight. A profitable business never runs on the goodwill, or pride of work of its employees - a profitable buiness will generate goodwill and pride of work in its employees. Its an important distiction to make.

[MichaelP]

This is a polarising thread and to an extent I meant it to be.

I get attacked as an "Employer" and this is true to an extent, but in fact I am still an employee and I have a certain say in who gets employed and who doesn't.

At another school someone said that the word out there was that instructors "get treated very well at ***" (the school I work at) and I hope that this is true.
Whatever, I try to keep everyone happy.
But flying schools do not make a lot of money, it is not the way an 'owner' can become rich... IMHO a properly run pub is the way to have fun and make a lot of money!

There's the problem of competition... We have to compete with our neighbours down south for one thing.
I do not know what the answer is.
I have seen schools with properly paid instructors, in England! But you can go to the USA and fly for half the cost and this plus airport costs plus fuel costs have priced British schools out of the market.

There is room to increase the cost of flying in Canada... But you'll have to convince the customers on the better training they'd get at your school when you charge a lot more than the operator with a lot of old badly maintained Cessnas.

The point of this thread though is the instructor's 'work ethic' as another poster put it.

I don't get paid a lot of money at all, and I could earn a lot more doing something else.
I'm not in it for the money...
But regardless of what I do, I always want to do the best job I can. This is called 'Satisfaction'. I get satisfaction from doing something well.
I never get satisfaction from teaching a student who is paying me if I am doing less than a good job.
If I do a poor job, I wouldn't on my honour charge for it!
I think that's honest professionalism.
And I take care of the tools with which I do my work. In this case, the aeroplanes!

[Bushav8er]

Regardless of how much you pay me I will do excellent work.

Even if you are not paid?

Yes.
And there in lays the difference between 'then' & 'now'.

We should all be the best we can be and perform to our abilities -period. The volunteer organizations wouldn't get to far with todays 'crowd' - "Why should I collect food for the starving? You're not paying me."

One more thing; Your word is the only true thing of value you possess in life, spend it wisely.

[AuxBatOn]

We should all be the best we can be and perform to our abilities -period. The volunteer organizations wouldn't get to far with todays 'crowd' - "Why should I collect food for the starving? You're not paying me."

The difference is that an FTU is not a volunteer or charitable organization. I give time every week to a charitable organization. I will never give free time to someone that makes money for my work.

[Cougar]

Interesting discussion.

I can see both sides.

Overall, though, I hear Michael clearly. I've driven the 20 miles back out to the airport when a storm looked worse than I'd thought as I left work, and yeah, maybe that makes me a sap, BUT then I have the knowledge that it's secure, and the next morning we won't all be standing there without an airplane. It's my own selfish satisfaction that's been met -- not some vague concept of whether my boss would care, or not care. My boss has no idea!

But, I do.

[Shiny Side Up]

We should all be the best we can be and perform to our abilities -period. The volunteer organizations wouldn't get to far with todays 'crowd' - "Why should I collect food for the starving? You're not paying me."

There's a line to cross though. There's only so far that a worker can be expected to chunk in. In the case of Michael's airplanes, if them instructors aren't being paid, they can't afford to be driving out just to be a bit more professional - if one looks at it, they ARE already performing to the best of their abilities. Quite litterally to them it might be the choice of gas money to drive out to the airport and the box of CO-OP brand cheese flavored pasta for the week. You must admit that we're probably talking about a group of people here that are on the edge of needing a volunteer's help than having the extra ability to give voluntarily.

To use your analogy, it would be "why should I collect food for the starving? I'M STARVING!"

I get attacked as an "Employer" and this is true to an extent, but in fact I am still an employee and I have a certain say in who gets employed and who doesn't.

Michael and I are in the same boat - or at least very similar. But there's adifference.

Whatever, I try to keep everyone happy.
But flying schools do not make a lot of money, it is not the way an 'owner' can become rich... IMHO a properly run pub is the way to have fun and make a lot of money!

There's the problem of competition... We have to compete with our neighbours down south for one thing.
I do not know what the answer is.

Flying Schools can make money. If yours isn't making enough then you're doing it wrong. You're right, the owner won't get rich doing it - but by the same token he can make a decent go of it. If you have the right market, I would go as far to say that in a long term picture you could maybe even make it "rich". You will never get rich quick at it.

[canadapilot924]

Aux - awesome comments and couldn't agree more. I am paid by the flight/ground hour but still make sure every day that the aircraft are secure, hangered/tied down, and everything is hunky dory when I leave. Now would I come in, for free, to check on things? No way, I can barely afford the gas when I am being paid! Nothing to do with bad attitude, but when you're being paid poverty wages (despite enjoying the work), you have to look after number 1. The answer, as Aux states, is a base salary - something few schools pay. Hmmm, or a company car!

[Bobby868]

There's a line to cross though. There's only so far that a worker can be expected to chunk in. In the case of Michael's airplanes, if them instructors aren't being paid, they can't afford to be driving out just to be a bit more professional - if one looks at it, they ARE already performing to the best of their abilities. Quite litterally to them it might be the choice of gas money to drive out to the airport and the box of CO-OP brand cheese flavored pasta for the week. You must admit that we're probably talking about a group of people here that are on the edge of needing a volunteer's help than having the extra ability to give voluntarily.

To use your analogy, it would be "why should I collect food for the starving? I'M STARVING!"

Very well said.

I find it hard to sympathize with flight schools. I understand there isn't much money to be made, the margins are tight and there's lots of competition. But why is that?

Well because flight school produce more students than the market can hold. Those graduates can't get jobs so they become flight instructors. Then there's more flight instructors than than there are teaching jobs so what do they do? Heck they set up their own school and what do they do? Well they start making even more students for non existent jobs. The circle never ends and the result is an ever downward spiral of this career.

[CosmoBuszard]

maybe this is a good time for some tips on the best knots to use... i learned some last summer when i started my PPL but after months of putting the plane in the hangar i've completely forgotten how to do them--or is this knot the time..? (ducks deluge of rotten tomatoes)

[SuperchargedRS]

Regardless of how much you pay me I will do excellent work.

Even if you are not paid?

YES

Funny volunteering is mentioned here!

I volunteer some of my time for a few organizations (one a flying club, the other Angel Flight) and I give the same 100% be it flying for huge money or be it if I have to pay for gas to drive somewhere where I fly for free.

Now Michael goes to work and PUTS SOME WORK IN, has seems like he is a craftsman in what he does (as, remember, that is also who you are). Everyone here knows the aviation industry is a small group who spreads rumors faster then a bunch of school girls, might it be better to be known as the guy that puts his all in vs. another F'off flight instructor just trying to build hours?

If you are going to do something DO IT FULLY, otherwise LEAVE.

[Bushav8er]

Quote:
We should all be the best we can be and perform to our abilities -period. The volunteer organizations wouldn't get to far with todays 'crowd' - "Why should I collect food for the starving? You're not paying me."


There's a line to cross though. There's only so far that a worker can be expected to chunk in. In the case of Michael's airplanes, if them instructors aren't being paid, they can't afford to be driving out just to be a bit more professional - if one looks at it, they ARE already performing to the best of their abilities.

Agreed. I'm not suggesting everyone jump in their cars and return to work to check on things - that'd be silly. What I am saying is what I said; everyone should perform to the best of their abilities.
Lets look at it this way.
When at work there are two individuals. One is always doing his (or her) best. The other doesn't, in fact this individual is the one that says 'One rope is on the plane - thats good enough, they don't pay me to tie ropes'. Each is paid the same but which one holds himself to a higher personal standard? And which one desires advances or bonuses? If I had to lay someone off - who should it be?

Its about your own personal standards and character - not the size of a pay cheque.

[MichaelP]

If you're here Cosmo I'd teach you for free as I taught my instructors and students for free!
Here's some online (a little pun there!) learning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hitch_knots

And there you are something for free from me...
I could do a lot of flying and earn some more money, but I see it as my duty as CFI to ensure my instructors get as much flying as possible.
I am well aware of the starvation wages we all get paid as instructors, and I will always do whatever I can to mitigate some of the stress and strain of living an impoverished life.
I do whatever I can to improve the instructor's knowledge and skills so that the students and them benefit. That is my job!
There's always tea and chocolate biscuits, sometimes scones and croissants... I do my damndest to make this a pleasant place for everyone.

My background is that I learned to fly at a flying club, I have always been a member of flying clubs and they were friendly places to be even on a rainy day.
On this field there are no flying clubs in the way I knew flying clubs in my past.

Ask anyone at Pro and they will remember who made the tea, and who brought in the goodies from time to time.
I do not see why any professional training establishment should not be a welcoming place while doing the business of flight training.

Ask me about flight training and job prospects and I'll be absolutely honest with you!

Life is a two way street.
We do not always see the benefit of what we do in dollars and cents.
But what we do today is reflected in our futures.
Favours I have done in the past have always been repaid many times over.

Show the world that you are an honourable person, doing the right thing, and it will reward you in time.

If your sole purpose in life as a pilot is money, then you will forever be unhappy.
I have met many unhappy airline pilots!
I have met many happy airline pilots... The happy ones seem to be the ones giving back.

We all paid for our flying to start with, were we not then concerned about the aeroplanes we flew?
Be concerned and your students will give you more credibility, although it's not MONEY, it is worth something.

As for driving out to the field and the cost of gas... Why not go to the airport early if you are booked that day and check on the aeroplanes?

[chinglish]

The only thing that you failed at was hiring the right staff. In my day when I instructed you showed up everyday no matter what and if anything was out of the "normal" you fixed it. If one of the aircraft/ meal tickets wasn't tied down properly or didn't have its cover on that aircraft could be potentially damaged. If that aircraft was damaged and didn't fly, you didn't fly. The problem with some people now a days is they got into flying for the "glamour" and didn't relize that it is hard work at the "bottom". Some people just don't have pride in what they do, it's just that simple.