I don't think Jazz will be using Air Canada owned RJ's to feed a Thomas Cook operation.
I'm happy for Jazz and I think it's a great thing as long as it remains SEPERATE from the Air Canada operation!
What I was thinking is that we already have a couple Dash 8 300's for charter. When we do a charter we use Jazz ground crew, agents, maintenance etc. It all there, already in place.
What would stop Thomas Cook from chartering a Dash to go up to Sudbury or something. If it works out it could be expanded. Instead of returning RJ's to the leasing company we keep a couple and repaint them, same goes for Dashes being replaced by Q400's.
It seemed Sunwing was busy at those smaller remote communities. It would be easier to fill 30 or 40 seats instead of an entire 737.
I would assume nothing so long as the aircraft used is not part of the CPA. Those aircraft are dedicated. Might be a stretch though to make it profitable. The margins are just so low in the vacation market. That is how Sunwing makes it work. Low margins spread over 160 pax. Low margins over 50?
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by Brick Head on Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
mattedfred wrote:as long as JAZ is meeting their obligations under the CPA with mainline they can do whatever they want with their aircraft
JAZ has done multiple charters with dash8 100, 300 and RJ's as far as i have seen. i'm not aware of any charters on the 705 but it may have happened
Your charters are run with aircraft not dedicated to the CPA. You have a few of them. More coming available right? You can buy them. Lease them. Those Q400's might work considering how cheap Deluce claims they run.
mattedfred wrote:as long as JAZ is meeting their obligations under the CPA with mainline they can do whatever they want with their aircraft
JAZ has done multiple charters with dash8 100, 300 and RJ's as far as i have seen. i'm not aware of any charters on the 705 but it may have happened
Your charters are run with aircraft not dedicated to the CPA. You have a few of them. More coming available right? You can buy them. Lease them. Those Q400's might work considering how cheap Deluce claims they run.
someone please correct me if i'm incorrect but JAZ can use any aircraft, at any time, for anything as long as they complete the flights required under the CPA and the flight does not conflict with the CPA
just because JAZ has 2 or however many dedicated charter aircraft does not mean that they only have 2 available for charters
Yup. Pretty sure that is the way the CPA is worded. I'd have to go back and check for sure. Works that way in the US. Talk to someone from Mesa for example with multiple CPA's. The airframes never intermingle. The crews do, but never the airframes.
i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that each CPA would be unique. i would assume that there would be an industry standard but these are still just agreements between two interested parties.
JAZ will do whatever it sees as a benefit to its bottom line as long as the CPA allows
98% revenue from a single source is unsustainable in my opinion
CRJ-705 wrote:anyone know or have an idea of what the pilots will do in the summer? will they go back to the dash or rj, or move to europe?
Slow down, this deal was only announced yesterday. Nothing has been decided yet. They don't even know how many crew will be needed or aircraft will be operated.
mattedfred wrote:
someone please correct me if i'm incorrect but JAZ can use any aircraft, at any time, for anything as long as they complete the flights required under the CPA and the flight does not conflict with the CPA
just because JAZ has 2 or however many dedicated charter aircraft does not mean that they only have 2 available for charters
And vice versa, those 2 charter aircraft get used on AC flights as well.
Subject to regulatory restrictions, the CPA does not preclude Jazz from entering into capacity purchase
agreements with, or providing airline services to, other carriers as long as Jazz's ability to perform its
obligations under the CPA is not impaired as a result. However, if Jazz enters into an agreement with
another carrier to provide regional airline services (other than charter flights), whether on a capacity
purchase or other economic basis, Air Canada will have the right to reduce the number of Covered
Aircraft, on a one-for-one basis, by the number of aircraft to be operated under such other agreement,
thereby reducing Jazz's ability to earn revenue from Air Canada.
Jazz does not directly benefit from any order of, or option to purchase, regional jet aircraft. As a result, in
the event that Jazz desires to enter into capacity purchase agreements with, or provide airline services to,
carriers other than Air Canada, Jazz may not be able to obtain in a timely manner the aircraft required to
provide such services, unless Jazz is able to lease such aircraft or to obtain financing for such acquisition.
There can be no assurance that Jazz's credit ratings will enable it to lease, or finance the acquisition of
such aircraft, or do so at reasonable borrowing rates, which could prevent Jazz from entering into capacity
purchase agreements with, or providing airline services to, carriers other than Air Canada, which could
have a material adverse effect on Jazz's business, results from operations and financial condition.
I hope that pilots will come from current Jazz pilots. In all probability in the seniority order, as it should be. No disrespect intended but it will be interesting to see how a 55 year old capt Dash 8 YVR base, 25 years just flying tprops will handle the transition to international jet flying. Seniority rules, right? Again, no disrespect intended.
No disrespect intended. But I'd like to see a 25 yr 767 captain come over to Jazz for a day and fly eight legs. Followed by a 12 hour overnight and another 6 legs the next day. No disrespect intended of course.
Sure might be some 25 year Dash guys bidding the Boeing ( if it REALLY shows up) but ole Turdo hasn't flown anything with props for 20 odd years. What's the difference, taking some old fart who spent his life flying a DC-9 Whisperjet at AC or say NWA and then have him bidding onto the 75? Pull back houses get smaller push forward houses get bigger.
Some guys are clueless no matter what aircraft they fly or what company they work for. Happens in every profession.The guy flying 8 legs daily in a baloney slicer ( in mountainous terrain ) would probably be a lot sharper than a pilot who does maybe 4 take offs and landings monthly doing long haul.
Anyway had to send my 737 NG manual back to Avaition World and got some 757 ones instead.
Hand me another nitro pill all this excitement is getting to me.
Turd
IF IT AIN'T BOEING TURDS NOT GOING!!!!!
I hope that pilots will come from current Jazz pilots.
Why would they not come from jazz? First off the union would NEVER allow something like that too happen. As it stands right now, their not even sure if there is a need to hire additional pilots even with this new contract because of our surplus as is already. Thing to remember here is that it's seasonal (depending how they work this)......that's gonna affect a lot in terms of hiring.
Why would they not come from jazz? First off the union would NEVER allow something like that too happen. As it stands right now, their not even sure if there is a need to hire additional pilots even with this new contract because of our surplus as is already. Thing to remember here is that it's seasonal (depending how they work this)......that's gonna affect a lot in terms of hiring.
Who would be responsible for AOM development, sim training, line indoc?
There is a provision in our contract to hire outside, (section 3-10) and it's pretty clear what could/will happen in a situation like this. Wouldn't it make sense to hire qualified people on a contract to get us up to snuff and then take over?
Do you really think we can get the operation online by ourself? Just curious.....
"No disrespect intended but it will be interesting to see how a 55 year old capt Dash 8 YVR base, 25 years just flying tprops will handle the transition to international jet flying."
It is disrespectful!
They did not bid the RJ when it came right?
We leave status pay in place and we avoid many problems.
But there would be no reason that Thomas Cook could not, for example, tap in to smaller markets. Chartering us to fly 50 people from A to YYZ, to connect with a sun destination. Sell it as a package to people in Windsor or somewhere like that. I don't know if that type of thing already exist, but wouldn't that be appealing to people in markets that don't have direct flights. As it is now if you want to go somewhere hot, unless you live where they fly out of, you have to factor in the cost to get there.
Just spit ballin here, maybe I should apply for a marketing job
Disclaimer: Made my post after reading page 1, then noticed it's similar to stinky's post above.
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by mbav8r on Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
mbav8r wrote: I guess whoever bids to fly it, will be expected to fly a half a year on a 757, then half on an RJ.
LOL....as if it would be UNTHINKABLE!!! for a Dash pilot to dream ever being up to par to fly a 757... typical JazzRJ B.S
I much more believe your second theory of working here in the winter and elsewhere in the summer.
Not my intent was not to exclude the Dash guys, afterall I was on it for a couple years. I dared to dream of someday being a jet jock myself. But that being said, most of the senior guys on the dash could hold RJ, but don't assumably because they prefer their schedule.
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by mbav8r on Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Or you leave status alone, give everyone a collective raise and become the best paid dash pilots in the world. Status pay is the way it should be. Money of seats or engines is the stupidest way to calculate wages and I mean all the disrespect. How can you argue that a 777 guy flying 9 times a month doing 18 legs should get paid more than a dash(or Embrear) guy doing 4-8 legs a day working 14-15 times a month? Their flying close to the same amount of people for the same ticket price during the same amount of flight hours. I would even argue that the margins are higher for the regional flying. Regardless status pay has been proven to work well and add stability to a company and I hope it stays. It promotes pilot unity among the workforce with no competition for the higher paying positions as well as reducing training costs.
There's a reason over seas (Europe/Asia) heavy flying is often left to the younger pilots and regional flying is done by more senior folks who want to be home for dinner.
Fine teacher, wages might be slightly increased at Jazz, but I can guarantee that overall, wages will be lowered in the industry if status pay is applied to companies with huge disparities in fleet size.
Jazz better be careful that they don't take the lead in the race to the bottom.
