Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

[CNU8]

So this is my first post, I fly out of Markham airport now but am trying to find a place to get my taildragger checkout this summer. Yesterday I called St. Thomas Flight Center to see what they charged for dual on their fleet canuck, and the person who anwsered the phone told me that there was no such thing as a taildragger checkout. Now I am confused, I only have time on a 172 and I know (have been told) you actually have to use the foot rests when flying a tailwheel plane, but I thought you needed some kind of a checkout to fly taildraggers. Or is it the same as going from a 172 to a warrior?


Can anybody reccomend where a good place would be to get one if there is such a thing as a taildragger checkout?

[Hedley]

Please don't confuse the real world (laws of physics) with the paper world. As a young pilot, one of the most important lessons you need to learn is that the two are only very loosely-coupled.

In Canada, legally, there is no such thing as a tailwheel endorsement on your pilot licence. However, since 1991, there has been such a thing in the the USA. You cross an invisible line, or wait a while, and the rules change. Got it?

Now for the laws of physics. If you attempt to fly a tailwheel aircraft the first time by yourself, you will surely wreck it, because it is unstable when the tires are on the pavement, because the center of mass is behind the main gear. It's akin to balancing a broom on your finger - you can do it, but you may need a little practice first.

A a young pilot, I might suggest that you develop the utmost respect for the laws of physics, because they will happily kill you if you give them an opportunity to.

Anyways, what tailwheel aircraft would you like to fly?

Generally the insurance companies are the gate-keepiers of this sort of thing. Your broker will specify in painful detail, what kind of instruction you will require, and from whom, when you buy yourself a tailwheel aircraft, or a retractable-gear aircraft, or a twin-engine aircraft, etc.

I do an awful lot of this sort of thing. Nobody except me will instruct on tailwheel homebuilts/antiques, it seems - esp multi-engine. Know any Piaggio Royal Gull instructors?

Lots of people like to talk a big game, but as the saying goes, few people are up for the moment.

[mcrit]

Try Brampton Flying Club. They should be able to get you going on the Cub. If that does not work try Future Air at Holland Landing.

A tail dragger checkout is really just a check on type. As far as TC is concerned a tail dragger is just another airplane, so there is no rating for it. Having said that, you may find a tail dragger is much different than what you are used to flying a 172.

[CNU8]

yeah Im not expecting it to be anything like the 172

[joco]

yeah Im not expecting it to be anything like the 172

Give Spectrum in Milton/Burlington a call 905-336-4010 and ask for Denis Simo. He will explain how things go there and help you. They have a Super Cub me thinks... Hope that helps.

[Adam Oke]

Get in touch with avcanada member l_reason. Shoot him a PM. He will teach you how to fly a tail-dragger right in a beautiful Luscombe. I highly recommend the guy and he's located in the London area. I wouldn't be where I am right now without having the opportunity to fly his plane getting some quality instruction!

[l_reason]

Send me a pm if you want to do some flying. OR get in touch with Hedley.

Adam, keep the tires out of the weeds and take care.

[rgarvis]

I am also looking for a taildragger checkout. I'm in Quebec, but willing to travel. I tried Brampton, but got no serious response. I'd have contacted I_reason but there appears to be no contact information in his profile. Anyone have a good contact for this type of training? I'll need it asap. You can reach me at richieg_2000@yahoo.com

[SuperchargedRS]

I'm surprised that there is no tail wheel endorsement in Canada, in this situation it looks like the insurance companies are actually the heroes here lol for without their limitations I'm sure a few Canadian would end up turning a few planes into pretzels.

[Hedley]

Go fly I_reason's Luscombe - he has plenty of satisfied tailwheel customers, because he's a pretty darned good instructor - guess who signed off his instructor rating?

If I_reason is too busy, give me a holler. My day job is insanely busy these days, but we can try to fit something in. I'm just southwest of Ottawa - I live near Bandy Bartholomew's home town:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartholomew_Bandy

PS Please don't encourage TCA to make more regulations. We should encourage pilots to use good judgement.

Our website: www.pittspecials.com

[l_reason]

Just send me a PM and I'll get back to you. I'm not around for the next few weeks, but I should have some after that. I'm not planning to do a great deal of tail wheel training, I'm not in it for the money or the log book time. I enjoy spending a few hours helping someone learn some new skills. Skills that will help them be a safer pilot in every plane they fly.

[Hedley]

I_reason: bad news! My company got sold by the mega-billion dollar sound company! No more speakers and amplifiers at manufacturer's cost

[l_reason]

L_reason

[AEROBAT]

I'm surprised that there is no tail wheel endorsement in Canada, in this situation it looks like the insurance companies are actually the heroes here lol for without their limitations I'm sure a few Canadian would end up turning a few planes into pretzels.

I for one am glad there is not a tailwheel endorsement. We have too many regs as it is. It is a very good idea to be checked out in any different type of plane but in my opinion we tend to be a bit overblown when it comes to flying with a tailwheel. Sure there are planes that will overwhelm a low time pilot but they tend to be homebuilts usually and even some homebuilts, the RV's, are a delight to fly and very well behaved.

[Hedley]

We don't have an aerobatic endorsement in Canada, either, and frankly it would be pretty much worthless, because you might be the ace of the base in a Citabria or Decathlon, but you would be completely out of water in say a Yak-52.

Our hypothetical pilot, transitioning from a Decathlon to a Yak-52 would be well advised to get some type-specific spin training.

Again, good judgement on the part of the pilot is worth many, many tons of rulebooks.

You could have an aerobatic endorsement for each different type of aerobatic airplane - think ICAS SAC airshow card - but that's kind of overkill, IMHO. If you're going to do that, you might as well require a type rating to fly each of a C120/140/150/152/170/172/175/177/180/182/185 straight and level.

[iflyforpie]

The only thing a tailwheel specifically adds to the challenge of flying the aircraft is when it is on the ground under certain conditions. The worst you are going to do with a tailwheel aircraft is depart the maneuvering surface, bend some metal, and maybe get a few cuts and bruises. If you have mishandled the plane so badly that you cartwheel, the configuration of the gear probably has little to do with your ensuing fate.

[Hedley]

The only thing a tailwheel specifically adds to the challenge of flying the aircraft is when it is on the ground under certain conditions

... and those "certain conditions" are that it is moving?

You are correct, though, that the safest place for a taildragger is in the sky. I always tell my students to take off with lots of gas, and if they don't get a perfect approach/flare/rollout to overshoot, because they are likely behind the aircraft, which means that they are a passenger, which is not good.

If a new taildragger pilot has any doubts in his mind about how any approach / flare / rollout is going, he should immediately add full power and get the tires in the air and get set up to try again, and to see if he can get a "good one".

This ought to be a non-issue because he has lots of gas, right?

It is an interesting psychological question as to why pilots unnecessarily keep pushing a bad situation, which often results in a horrible end, without some enormous skill or luck being injected into the situation at some point.

[iflyforpie]

... and those "certain conditions" are that it is moving?

If your locking spring is weak and the winds are cross or quartering, it can be a challenge just staying still...

[CNU8]

Thanks for the advice; I was talking to a guy who owns a plane at the airport I fly out of and has over 10 000 hours, he told me to get a few hours in something like a champ before heading into the Luscombe. This summer it would be great to do some flying with I_reason if he has some time.

[Hedley]

Sure, if you had a cub/champ/chief/citabria/decathlon available, it wouldn't hurt to get an hour or two in it before you jump into the Luscombe.

But don't believe the horror stories you hear about the Luscombe - or any other airplane. It's a certified single, and you don't have to be . Yeager to fly it.

Lots of people here have flown with I_reason, and every single one really appreciated the improvement in their stick & rudder skills.

A few years back, I_reason took my kid - who was maybe 14 at the time - up in his Luscombe, and the first time landing it - from the right seat - he had no problem.

A Luscombe is NOT a fire-breathing dragon that eats pilots for breakfast. If I had a nickle for every time I heard that before I flew a new (to me) type, I would be a rich man