RCMP drives drunk, flips car

[ronjeremy]

Drunk Pilot Escapes Jail - Is It Safe to Fly Anymore?
http://newsblaze.com/story/201002191508 ... story.html

SECURITY guards prevented a possible disaster - when an air traffic controller turned up drunk.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... opped.html

I'm never flying again...

[BoostedNihilist]

This guy is a fucking idiot. Every cop knows that if you flip your car you quickly run home and down a few shots, that way, everything is cool and you only get a leaving the scene ticket.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Mount ... story.html

[Brown Bear]

Am I the only one tired of the almost daily anti-RCMP/COP in general posts/threads? Somebody really needs to get a life.

[ronjeremy]

cpl_atc, why do you snap at anyone who has different views than you?

[Indanao]

If the RCMP represent our system we have a duty to support them. But, where does that duty end?

The other day at 4am it was dropping my wife off at departure level YVR. Coming in there was an RCMP
cruiser that went racing by me. Just as he got to the ramp, he stopped and waited for me to catch up.
We proceeded up the ramp with me on the outside lane. Another car came up behind the RCMP. He was
going 20km per hour as posted. However, he stayed abreast as we proceeded up the ramp. At the top,
I had to get to the curb lane to pull over. So, up to 25km per hour and past him signalling to turn right,
and proceeding to park. He pulled up behind, got smart, wrote me a ticket for $139 for exceeding posted
speed. Whatever happened to 10km over before writing? Anyway, he called for back up and another
new recruit ( chinese cop ) showed up. They were very threatening, so I told them they may have to
taser somebody else, and I took the ticket and left ( with number one cop threatening that he intended
to follow me out.

WHY are they not being supervised at YVR?

Here is the Point. You must be very naive to think there are no bad cops that need to be smartened up.
Just because we point this out, doesn't make us anti establishment, authority, or society in general. It means
we are pointing out problems with the system. That, my friends, is how we make constructive change. Bow
to authority at any cost and we have a Police State.

[Wilbur]

I don't think you'd find anyone in law enforcement who would not agree there are some people in the field who take their authority to the limit, sometimes beyond, are not as skilled as they ought to be, and belong in some another line of work. The same can be said of any occupation. I've never done anything, or known anyone in any field of endevour, where I couldn't point out someone who didn't belong...flying and ATC included.

However, the fact there is a small percentage of people in law enforcement that don't belong does not warrant the vitriolic crap that Cpl ATC heaps on everyone and every agency in the field. Especially when he rarely, if ever, has any clue about what he writes.

[Indanao]

Well...I would agree that this is not the forum for this discussion at all - it has zip to do with Aviation in Canada.

[mag check]

Well...I would agree that this is not the forum for this discussion at all - it has zip to do with Aviation in Canada

It's in the misc/political debate section, so as far as I know, anything goes.

Am I the only one tired of the almost daily anti-RCMP/COP in general posts/threads? Somebody really needs to get a life.

Yes, maybe you are.

These people are public servants, and should be held accountable for ALL their actions, and as far as I'm concerned, there should be immediate termination for every single officer involved in these cases.

There should be NO second chances for public servants, for anything.

[BoostedNihilist]

However, the fact there is a small percentage of people in law enforcement that don't belong does not warrant the vitriolic crap that Cpl ATC heaps on everyone and every agency in the field. Especially when he rarely, if ever, has any clue about what he writes.

I don't think you'd find anyone in law enforcement who would not agree there are some people in the field who take their authority to the limit, sometimes beyond, are not as skilled as they ought to be, and belong in some another line of work. The same can be said of any occupation. I've never done anything, or known anyone in any field of endevour, where I couldn't point out someone who didn't belong...flying and ATC included.

But, how come there are SO many instances to discuss? I mean, of course you don't get the praised heaped on you when you do your job.. your praise is, you get payed... so it is completely fair to be lambasted whenever you screw up enough to end up in the media. I cannot recall HOW MANY times I have heard of cops being busted for drinking and driving, assault, misconduct.. I know personally three people who have been put on payed leave.. these people are not officers but CM's and PS's so... the rot extends WELL into the system. How many cops got sent home from the olympics... one for STEALING?!?! I can understand some over-exuberant drunkeness and send them home, but stealing? What about that guy who was caught with a hooker in the photo radar van?!?! I mean..... what do you have to do to walk into work the next day and be fired? It is not so much that I believe all cops are scumbags, but I definitely do not respect an organization as a whole that seems to be so riddled with people who are the antithesis of what we would expect in an officer...

The question then becomes, how the hell do all these people slip through the screening process?? Most of all of these people get trained at the same place before they are hired.. there should be AMPLE time to see who the unsuitable candidates are.. but I have a feeling that the more you are 'like the rest' the more of a chance you have of getting a job.. and if you are 'like the rest' that means the 'rest are like you' which... well.. systemic problems.

I find it funny, that when the reprehensible is done, wilbur, you quickly come to defend the organization.. why is this? Don't you get tired of coming in to these threads having to defend the organization or members of the organization? If there wasn't a problem, we wouldn't be here.

I have a hard time believing all of this could happen without a shade of complicity..

[ronjeremy]

BoostedNihilist, how many instances are there actually in relation to the number of police and support staff? Out of, I'm guessing, close to 100,000 police officers and more support staff across Canada how many have been charged or found to have acted inappropriately? If you have numbers I'd like to see it, but a few articles each day, often written about "accusations" do not mean that the system is broken.

I know I've dealt with a few pilots as a police officer and one of my bosses when I was still trying to break into flying could be a real douche, I guess all pilots are evil. Maybe that's why I couldn't make it as a pilot, I didn't fit into the criminal culture of aviation...

Has there ever been a time that a police officer has been accused of something they didn't do? This is what bugs me the most about "cop haters", even once an officer is found not guilty in court and an internal investigation and an external investigation has cleared them they are still judged to be guilty by some in the public and media, how come? I guess the criminals who make complaints of police misconduct are always 100% reliable, especially since they've proven themselves trustworthy after stealing from, assaulting, raping or murdering someone.

Also, if you are going to fire a cop the second a complaint is received why not fire a pilot. I mean, some break aviation rules which have to be investigated. They have passenger's lives, million dollar aircraft and the safety of people on the ground in their hands. If someone makes a complaint about a pilot should he not be fired immediately because he must be risking lives. A pilot fucking up kills a lot more people than a cop who fucks up, why risk it?

By all means, if a police officer is found after a thorough investigation to have committed a crime or broken policy fire them. But you cannot have a blanket approach to fire everyone instantly, you'd have no police left. It would be, like the media is becoming, an outlet for people arrested for a crime to help their cause.

[Nark]

Well said Mr Ronjeremy

[CD]

maybe someone just needs to lick his big hairy blue balls?


(it needed to be said)

[BoostedNihilist]

BoostedNihilist, how many instances are there actually in relation to the number of police and support staff? Out of, I'm guessing, close to 100,000 police officers and more support staff across Canada how many have been charged or found to have acted inappropriately? If you have numbers I'd like to see it, but a few articles each day, often written about "accusations" do not mean that the system is broken.

Where are your numbers? If you want to claim that there is no systemic rot then you can provide the figures. I am simply saying there are too many instances coming to light to ignore the possibility that there might be a problem with the organization. I don't care which percentage of what does what.. wrong is wrong and time and time again we see the circle the wagons mentality.. the best one I have read lately was about the lady cop who got let off for drunk driving because she 'didn't intend to drive her vehicle drunk' well god damn, who do I have to blow to get a get out jail free car like that? seriously, I'm reaching for my chapstick..

I know I've dealt with a few pilots as a police officer and one of my bosses when I was still trying to break into flying could be a real douche, I guess all pilots are evil. Maybe that's why I couldn't make it as a pilot, I didn't fit into the criminal culture of aviation...

Your statement does not preclude all pilots from actually being douches. For all we know non douche pilots are the exception to the rule.. god knows most of the pilots I converse with fit the definition... however, how many pilots do you think should be allowed to fly again after they have flown drunk.. but oh, they didn't intend to fly drunk. Furthermore, I don't read into CPL_ATC posts that all cops are anything, just that the cops that are bad, are bad, and that there seems to be so many of them perhaps it warrants a closer look. I mean, if the police were looking at a legitimate company who happened to employ a few mobsters, you bet they would be looking at everyone and seeing if there is a system in place...

Has there ever been a time that a police officer has been accused of something they didn't do? This is what bugs me the most about "cop haters", even once an officer is found not guilty in court and an internal investigation and an external investigation has cleared them they are still judged to be guilty by some in the public and media, how come? I guess the criminals who make complaints of police misconduct are always 100% reliable, especially since they've proven themselves trustworthy after stealing from, assaulting, raping or murdering someone.

Has there ever been a time when police have accused someone of something they didn't do? If you want to use that fact to cancel out a wrong, it cancels out the wrongful accusations made by the police, not the bad actions of the police that put them in the position of being accused. So far as your not guilty in court statement.. I don't care.. I have a brain, and I know the difference between right and wrong, more so apparently than some of the officers, evidence of this fact is the absence of any criminal convictions on my record. I know that a cop who WAS drunk that gets off because they 'didn't intend to drive drunk' might on paper look like a wrongfully accused victim.. but you don't have to read too hard or look too deep to see the flipside of that argument..

Also, if you are going to fire a cop the second a complaint is received why not fire a pilot. I mean, some break aviation rules which have to be investigated. They have passenger's lives, million dollar aircraft and the safety of people on the ground in their hands. If someone makes a complaint about a pilot should he not be fired immediately because he must be risking lives. A pilot fucking up kills a lot more people than a cop who fucks up, why risk it?

Pilots are fired on the spot all the time for DRINKING AND FLYING... I mean, do you read the papers? There has been at least five topics posted in general with regards to this type of action. Pilots are held accountable for their actions all the fuckin time.. Most of the time, when a pilot is fucked by the system there is no recourse, when you are a cop you get a system which backs you because they have to.. they have to back the scumbags and make sure they don't get convicted or else people will realize the organization is filled with scumbags.. they are in the position to manage their own image when it comes to legal matters.. this is a luxury none of us as laypeople have... so when there appears to be abuse we must absolutely take them to task.. every single time.

By all means, if a police officer is found after a thorough investigation to have committed a crime or broken policy fire them. But you cannot have a blanket approach to fire everyone instantly, you'd have no police left. It would be, like the media is becoming, an outlet for people arrested for a crime to help their cause.

Investigation by who? And with the legal system licking their balls why should we trust the investigation. Hell, the RCMP investigate, convinced crown to proceed to trial (;ay charges) only to have a judge disregard evidence of an overblow and make a decision to acquit based on intent? @#$! me!! I have a hard time believing these people can police themselves and ensure accountability with the zero oversight which currently exists.

you'd have no police left. It would be, like the media is becoming, an outlet for people arrested for a crime to help their cause.[

Well, if they don't have an entire police force to cover up for them it is small wonder. Besides, that is a long time coming.. the shoe is now on the other foot. How often to you see a printed retraction.. they are very difficult to find. For years the cops have used the media to skew and contaminate jury pools, so if you want to use the media bias to cancel out actions, it would be canceling out the actions of the police misuse of the media.

[ronjeremy]

I had a very long reply typed up but even I couldn't reread my own post, it was that long and boring.

How can you say I should provide the numbers? You are the one saying there is a problem, prove it. If you are willing to throw out an accusation like that back it up. Oh, but you're not an investigator just a concerned citizen? Then how do you know that the job is being done wrong without doing some leg work and asking some questions to understand how and why?

For all your accusations of jury tainting and whatever else.... show me evidence. You have shown none. Yes you referenced an article of a female police officer getting off and say it was the police, prove it. And no, I will not prove you wrong, it's your accusation, don't be lazy.

You seem to be an expert on police yet you have completely left one extremely important part of your argument, evidence, it's basic police work .

Yeah this was thrown together and doesn't cover all your "arguments", but who cares. I can type until my fingers bleed, we both know I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.

[Wilbur]

There are about 68,000 police officers in Canada, RCMP and municipal, according to Stats Canada. Then you can add on all the other peace officer occupations such as sheriff and court services, corrections, conservation officers, park rangers, bylaw enforcement, motor vehicle inspectors, etc.

Why do I usually defend the people and organizations? Because the insults and put downs made here are almost always based on a simplistic media account, parrotted by someone who doesn't know the law, doesn't know the facts of the case at hand, and doesn't seem to want to know either.

When you consider the hundreds of incidents each of those 68,000 police deal with each year, I suggest the cases of misconduct are actually quite rare.

[BoostedNihilist]

I had a very long reply typed up but even I couldn't reread my own post, it was that long and boring.

yeah, not surprised...

How can you say I should provide the numbers? You are the one saying there is a problem, prove it. If you are willing to throw out an accusation like that back it up. Oh, but you're not an investigator just a concerned citizen? Then how do you know that the job is being done wrong without doing some leg work and asking some questions to understand how and why?

Perhaps you should invest some time reading what I actually wrote. You are inventing points and saying that I have made them.

For all your accusations of jury tainting and whatever else.... show me evidence. You have shown none. Yes you referenced an article of a female police officer getting off and say it was the police, prove it. And no, I will not prove you wrong, it's your accusation, don't be lazy.

seriously thinky dude, I think you should reread the entire thread.. I have NEVER made an accusation. I never said the female officer got off because of the police... if you would pull your head out of your ass and read what I wrote, you would see that I gave credit to both the RCMP for collecting the evidence and the crown for placing the charges. The judge dropped the ball and disregarded evidence.

You seem to be an expert on police yet you have completely left one extremely important part of your argument, evidence, it's basic police work .

What's the point? Apparently, you are not interested in actually reading what is said, so what is the point in providing you 'evidence'? Evidence of what anyways? I am saying that there are enough instances of police misconduct to warrant a closer look, nothing more, nothing less. I don't need to provide statistics because the standard is entirely subjective. If you want to find the evidence of such facts, all you have to do is simply peruse some of the threads found here on avcanada.

Yeah this was thrown together and doesn't cover all your "arguments", but who cares. I can type until my fingers bleed, we both know I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.

Lol, clearly you are emotionally invested in this argument because you have shown that you might see little squiggles on a forum but truly cannot understand what is being said. I can't change your mind because I suspect there is not a mind there to be changed. You have a preconceived notion about what I am trying to say and you are trying to fit my arguments into those positions.. but you clearly have misread and misunderstood what my points and positions are..

The reason you didn't cover the rest of my arguments is because I shot your original post so full of holes you're afraid of me making you look like an idiot again if you give me the chance.. the first smart move you've made all thread.

[Slats]

[ronjeremy]

How will I go on?

I have to work today, but maybe I'll reply in full later.

[BoostedNihilist]

bring it ronjeremy, I got your ass on toast mode

You want a statistic.. every 10 days an rcmp officer somewhere will be charged with a crime.

[Indanao]

Actually, I think this Thread, " sucks ". We all have a duty to support our appointed officials without evidence of wrong doing. If your just reposting newsmedia reports - hey, we can all read. Unless it involved you in some personal way your only a gossip. That is Police Bashing, when done on a public forum. ( Seems you may have a vial vendetta going against the Police - "Cpl_ATC". Sorry, but that is what it appears. )

[Topspin]

Why not just one thread for all postings?

People stop complaining, CPL_ATC is happy.
People don't have to see the forum flooded, they are happy.

[mag check]

Actually, I think this Thread, " sucks ". We all have a duty to support our appointed officials without evidence of wrong doing. If your just reposting newsmedia reports - hey, we can all read. Unless it involved you in some personal way your only a gossip. That is Police Bashing, when done on a public forum. ( Seems you may have a vial vendetta going against the Police - "Cpl_ATC". Sorry, but that is what it appears. )

My personal feeling is that if you show me a cop, I'll show you a cop that has abused his/her position.
I have not met, or seen a cop that has not, and I know a good number of cops.

[the_professor]

Actually, I think this Thread, " sucks ". We all have a duty to support our appointed officials without evidence of wrong doing.

No, we have a duty to continually question all officials, especially the appointed ones, police or otherwise.

'See no evil, hear no evil' is a pretty ignorant way to regard our police. Seen any of the stories lately where the police's account of events was completely up-ended by video evidence found after the fact? I won't be one of those who buries my head in the sand, like you are apparently content to do.

[Wilbur]

I actually agree with you prof regarding our duty to hold public officials, police included, accountable. The police should be policing our society the way we want it policed.

However, we need to be careful not to fall prey to name calling and condeming police behaviour without having the facts of a situation, generalizing that all police are bad based on the actions of a very small minority, and having unrealistic expecations that mistakes should never be made. As a society, we also need to find the right balance between handcuffing the police, and maintaining an ability to deal with criminals and anti-social behaviour. If adequate controls are not kept on the police, we run the risk of having our freedoms eroded by those police. Too much control on the police, we will have our freedoms eroded by the criminals.

In my opinion, we have slighty too much control on the police these days. Hence, gangs are flourishing, few crimes are investigated and solved, policing has become a difficult, dangerous, crappy job, and police agencies can't find enough qualified people willing to do the job.

That, in turn, helps set off a cycle of more police mistakes and misbehaviour. Recruiting standards are lowered, overall experience levels are lower, and people are promoted into supervisory positions when they really don't have adequate experience and skill.