How many of you are atheists, agnostic, or religious?

[flyinthebug]

edit (personal)

don't take it so personal, lol.

lol. Its been a civil discussion for the most part so i didnt want to ruin a good thread.

I called someone on their "position" or lack thereof, and got kinda off track. Edit was the only option lol. Cheers!

[loopy]

You should have a fourth choice, spiritual. Many people today have left theor traditional "religions" but consider themselves spiritual. They may not say they are christian, catholic, etc. That is how I would categorize myself.

[Randleman]

I'm comfortable believing that science doesn't always have all the answers. If I wanted a warm and fuzzy believe, I'd be an athiest. Atheism has no moral convictions, no right or wrong, it concludes that nothing really matters.

?

You're suggesting that those that choose atheism lack moral convictions, perception of right & wrong? One cannot be an atheist, and have a sense of right and wrong?

I tend to take Einstein's position on that:

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.

And what matters is chosen by the individual, not the organization. I bet I can find an awful lot of religious folk who's end game goals do not align with there particular organization.

With reference to Einstein's quote, that's really what separates true Christianity from other religions. We don't believe in salvation just because we want to be saved/not go to hell-it's more than that. It's because a true relationship, and a true love we believe God offers us, that is really perfect. The point of it simply isn't to fit in/follow rules/know right and wrong...Christianity is a religion of the heart.

[Randleman]

And on another note, Einstein himself, said "In all my years of life, I learned 2 things...1. There is a God. 2. I am not He."

[BTD]

Einstein didn't believe in a God as a Deity or in Theism.

He used the term "God" to describe the laws and nature of the universe. But not necessarily as a being or something that created the universe.

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

http://skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id8.html

Indeed, in Einstein's writings there is well-known reference to God and discussion of religion (1949, 1954). Although Einstein stated he was religious and that he believed in God, it was in his own specialized sense that he used these terms. Many are aware that Einstein was not religious in the conventional sense, but it will come as a surprise to some to learn that Einstein clearly identified himself as an atheist and as an agnostic. If one understands how Einstein used the terms religion, God, atheism, and agnosticism, it is clear that he was consistent in his beliefs.

Part of the popular picture of Einstein's God and religion comes from his well-known statements, such as: "God is cunning but He is not malicious."(Also: "God is subtle but he is not bloody-minded." Or: "God is slick, but he ain't mean." (1946)

"God does not play dice."(On many occasions.)

"I want to know how God created the world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."(Unknown date.)

It is easy to see how some got the idea that Einstein was expressing a close relationship with a personal god, but it is more accurate to say he was simply expressing his ideas and beliefs about the universe.

This is usually covered a little in most books that discuss the theories of relativity and quantum mechanics, regarding Einstein.

The evidence seems to point that he didn't believe in anything supernatural.

BTD

[BibleMonkey]

Einstein didn't believe in a God as a Deity or in Theism.

You could be right-( people do cherry-pick quotations to support the hypothesis that Einstein was a man of faith) but it is debatable; like many of the American founding fathers, he might rightfully be considered to have been a theist ( cosmic clockmaker, who wound the clock, and then left it to run down on its own with no outside intervention) .

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/6681.html
Einstein and Religion:
Physics and Theology
Max Jammer
Worth reading
( excerpt):
http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s6681.html

Another very good book that I am re-reading ,parts of which touch on the thread topic is:

The passion of the Western mind: understanding the ideas that have shaped our world view

I thought it interesting how Church/religious sponsored learning was responsible for the cultural and scientific awakening -in the twelve and thirteenth centuries the rediscovery of Aristotles writings that had been preserved by Moslems , and Byzantynes , translated by Christian monks ..etc.

How the use of reason -used to examine/defend articles of faith ( Anslem, Abelard) , logic used to examine contradictory statements by Church authorities expanded under medieval thinkers to examine the different types of possible truths, competing arguments, -universities evolved under church auspices.

It's interesting how we evolved ...reason and faith -fuel and spark-we still need them both to make progress.

[BTD]

Einstein didn't believe in a God as a Deity or in Theism.

You could be right-( people do cherry-pick quotations to support the hypothesis that Einstein was a man of faith) but it is debatable; like many of the American founding fathers, he might rightfully be considered to have been a theist ( cosmic clockmaker, who wound the clock, and then left it to run down on its own with no outside intervention) .
.

Theism is an intervening God. Deism is where he/she winds the clock.

Oh well, most scientists and biographers seem to believe he was an Atheist or at the very least Agnostic.

Unfortunate how he used the term God to mean something different from what others use it for.

[Indanao]

Can't figure out why Einstein's beliefs would effect anyone else. We have lot's of Mensa members who's opinion is surely as valid. Does intelligence in some way relate to spirituality. Like, are we all looking for somebody to follow, or can we make up our own minds? Personally, his beliefs on spirituality wouldn't sway me.

[BibleMonkey]

Theism is an intervening God. Deism is where he/she winds the clock.

Yup. oops . typo/misspoke.

Can't figure out why Einstein's beliefs would effect anyone else. We have lot's of Mensa members who's opinion is surely as valid. Does inteligence in some way relate to spirituality. Like, are we all looking for somebody to follow, or can we make up our own minds? Personally, his beliefs on spirituality wouldn't sway me.

Well you're right-but there are still big long arguments about it. One ( too easy ) resolution lies -as it does in many arguments-on clarifying terms, in this case defining what the physicist meant by "god"-which only forms a counterargument against the cherry pickers, and doesn't quite resolve it, I don't think.

Does intelligence in some way relate to spirituality.

That's a good question. Maybe it does to some extent.

Maybe it's more type of experience that relates to spirituality-e.g examples being something like Astronaut James Irwin, who had a religious epiphany on the moon and founded a ministry after he retired as an astronaut, or Duke , or Mitchell or the other lunar astronauts :

.....Duke, who insists

he found no philosophical meaning in his time on the moon, nonetheless came home to find a deep well of Christian spirituality within himself and fills his time with secular and religious speaking......Mitchell says it was his lunar journey that opened his eyes to something larger in the universe — what he refers to as his "ah-ha experience....

I could see how that type of experience ( looking at earth from the moon) might turn a more 'science-oriented ' mind to spirituality-similarly how an egg head scientist ( e.g Albert E.) could find some spiritual meaning upon discovering some great previously-hidden wackiness in the universe .

[BTD]

Maybe it's more type of experience that relates to spirituality-e.g examples being something like Astronaut James Irwin, who had a religious epiphany on the moon and founded a ministry after he retired as an astronaut, or Duke , or Mitchell or the other lunar astronauts :

Those were the only 3 lunar astronauts who had that shift. Mitchell is more about the paranormal and a oneness with the universe than a die hard religious. You are correct, however, about Duke and Irwin.

Mitchell talks about realizing and contemplating the fact that he feels connected to the rest of the universe. That the molecules in his body (the heavy elements) were created in stars over billions of years, and that he is no different then any other heavenly body out there. That kind of spirituality I feel often too, when I'm flying along looking outside at a beautiful picture. But it doesn't really jive with the standard religion 6000 year stuff.

The majority of the others who went came back more geared towards the scientific side and no more religious than before they left.

Can't figure out why Einstein's beliefs would effect anyone else. We have lot's of Mensa members who's opinion is surely as valid. Does inteligence in some way relate to spirituality. Like, are we all looking for somebody to follow, or can we make up our own minds? Personally, his beliefs on spirituality wouldn't sway me.

It doesn't really matter. However, as with the beginning of this thread and the discussion on evolution, people will often misquote or use incorrect information to prove their point. If their argument is based on this incorrect information than it should be corrected. Whether Einstein believed or not is irrelevant to what others believe, or to what is factually true.

However, his ability to reason, and understand things was on a different level from the general population, and when considering his points/arguments should be weighted accordingly.

[OhKiE DoHkIe]

You should have a fourth choice, spiritual. Many people today have left theor traditional "religions" but consider themselves spiritual. They may not say they are christian, catholic, etc. That is how I would categorize myself.

A 4th choice? Being "spirutual" is kinda wishy-washy for any "interesting" argument of discussion in this thread. Not to say it isn't a valuable way of beliefs. It's just....beige/VANILLA in any stance regarding this thread. That's just my opinion and not meant to offend your choice. There could be 100 different choices in the poll but I think your beliefs would fall under (generally) agnostic...for this poll only.

Thanks!

[OhKiE DoHkIe]

It doesn't really matter. However, as with the beginning of this thread and the discussion on evolution, people will often misquote or use incorrect information to prove their point. If their argument is based on this incorrect information than it should be corrected. Whether Einstein believed or not is irrelevant to what others believe, or to what is factually true.

However, his ability to reason, and understand things was on a different level from the general population, and when considering his points/arguments should be weighted accordingly.

BRAVO!!!

I'm not sure where you stand in the great mix of things regarding your "choice" to believe or not...HOWEVER, I am now a fan of your threads because you projected a "RATIONAL" manner of thinking.

BRAVO!!!