Emirates Toronto Road Show April 6th

[Tommyboy]

I'm sure most people know by now, but Emirates is will be in Toronto doing their roadshow at the Fairmont, Royal York on April 6th, 7th. Checkout their website if you want more info.
Cheers!

[Eastside]

Strategically aimed at the SkyService pilot group?

[IBPilot]

Strategically aimed at the SkyService pilot group?

There is that slight chance....

[Inverted2]

I have heard from several that working conditions aren't too rosy over there like they used to be. Ask around, do your homework before moving over there!

[Dave Grohl]

I have heard from several that working conditions aren't too rosy over there like they used to be. Ask around, do your homework before moving over there!

You mean like this?:

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/41105 ... zones.html

And this long thread (scroll to last pages/more recent to get the current state of affairs):

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/33412 ... erged.html

[complexintentions]

If anyone's going maybe they can ask them how those plans for the UAE to blackmail Canada into giving Emirates more access, are going.

I could give anyone who wants them easily a dozen pointed questions that would require them to lie straight to your face to provide an acceptable answer. Of course people are free to believe whatever they want, but it would be the height of foolishness to take anything they say at face value or to trust them as far as you could throw them. Slick video presentations, a glib sales pitch, and glossy brochures do not make something true. It simply isn't in their culture (corporate or Middle East) to tell the truth or be forthcoming about the reality of the job or living in Dubai. That reality changes at their whim, has been overwhelmingly for the negative in the last few years, and there is NOTHING you can do about it once you are there but leave.

I would contend that being unemployed in Canada for a short period is a better option, BY FAR, than voluntarily donning the cynical handcuffs of Emirates Airline.

As someone said...do your homework. In the Internet age there is no excuse for not being informed.

[lot lizard]

CI is bang on, you have to really question why you want to come out. There are still some good things in DXB BUT you will always get treated like a second class citizen by the locals, examples;

Britsh couple jailed (30 days) for a kiss on the cheek at a restaurant at 2 am based on an Emirati womans complaint on what her kids allegedly saw.

I flew with an American FO who was called into the Cheif Pilots office and forced to write an apology letter to the local head of uniform distribution because he expressed concern about the security implications of selling excess airline uniform stock to the public. I read the paper trail, quite shocking.

DXB is very expensive and EK does not completely cover the costs (utilities, school, maternity), gas is cheap though... It can be very hard on spouses and has cost quite a few marriages.

As far as EK is concerned, its all on pprune. Of some of the main points, fatigue is a big one. Average 90 -93 hrs per month. They really push the limits on FTL and will file flightplans well into commanders discretion, then really try to push guys when they wont go into discretion.

Flights from SEL and PVG in the winter extend well into the 11:30+ hr duty range, thats 2 pilots on a 2300 departure after a 0300 departure the previous day from DXB.

You will never get any back up from management on anything, most of them are there to pad a pension and dont often or have never flown the line here. They will now drop you faster than a used rubber at any minor incident. Your whole life here is completely based on EK, which can be scary considering the lack of support.

If your a single person and under 30, then it can be a good place ( Ive heard some real jaw droppers of single life here with pics !). It will take at least 8 yrs to upgrade now and that is really the only reason to come out here, upgrade to move out. FO pay will cover your costs if you are single or married with no kids and your wife works, other than that 8 years will put you in the hole.

Personally, I dont regret coming out here one bit. Its been good to us BUT I lucked out with the timing of everything and were now on our way home. Because of luck and heavy CYA I ve avoided any conflict but one rear ender from a local and things could change fast.

One final thing that anyone should think about if considering coming out. A Canadian B777 TRI was arrested a few years ago because EK had him reroute with a stop on a return sector to DXB because of a scheduling screw up. An Emirati pax called the police on arrival to DXB because of his perceived slight by the Captain. This Capt is an excellent guy, excellent instructor (was, he resigned as an TRI) and is an absolute credit to our profession. EK did help him out, that was then...wouldnt happen now. You can do 100 good things with no credit or thanks but you will get shat upon instantly with no investigation for one screw up including sim.

Do your homework! Ask very pointed questions and listen to Hotel California by the Eagles, this is it!

Good luck.

[lot lizard]

Oh yeah, watch the pilot shortage videos on youtube. Super funny, painfully true.

[TyrellCorp]

Thanks lot lizard and complex for some very good info. Listen up kids and DO the research before taking that plunge. The Middle East seems to have been going only one way. Down! They might have started out good but have been on a race to the bottom. As a friend put it, "they hit rock bottom and are now drilling".

[Mig29]

Heard bits and pieces here and there, and my puzzle is almost complete....Can't say I'm impressed at all...

Thanks for the update guys....

[Jaques Strappe]

I have a few friends who are there or were there and left. One guy while upgrading to the left seat of the 777 stated that things in Canada would have to be really bad if anyone was thinking of coming and the other literally "escaped" in the middle of the night by purchasing a last minute one way ticket outbound to return to Air Canada at the bottom of the list. It cost him almost 700 numbers and he said coming back was the best thing he ever did. Going was the worst.

Just watching their corporate tactics around the world is pretty scary.

I have never known of or heard of anyone who worked on their career with the express intention of getting to EK to make a career. All of the ones I know went there because of perceived or real necessity due to layoff from someplace else. That speaks volumes.

Everyone is different of course but I think the advice of doing your homework before hand is very sound indeed.

[lot lizard]

If anyone is still unsure about coming out to Dubai and what you may experience in everyday life, have a look at
SHEIKH ZAYED ROAD MADNESS on Youtube. Basically a bunch of young locals block the busiest highway in Dubai during rush hour so they can jack around, ahhh to be young, rich and stupid! These guys will not even get a slap on the wrist but if you kiss your girlfriend on the cheek, watch out! Who knows maybe you might get to fly with one of these guys![youtube][/youtube]

[Panama Jack]

I guess Emirates or living in Dubai beats living in some Canadian city that starts with the name "Fort" or where you have to load the cargo into a Navajo.

Here are some good videos (there is no sound, just read the subtitles) about the Emirates process:

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/40704 ... ideos.html

[flyer 1492]

Found this a while back on pprune. Enjoy
EK FO Rhapsody
________________________________________
Is this the real life is this reality
caught in the right seat
with a DEC from blighty.
open your ties, roll both your eyes and screeeeeaaam

Im just a gear boy need loads of sympathy
because im easy come hard to go
fly so high paid so low
Anyway this plane goes
doesnt really matter toooo meee, toowho meeee

mama just killed a man,
the problem was you see,
he was a f****ng DEC,
Mama three years on the job
hope the w@nkers wont hire another knob

Emirates ooooooooo
Didnt think that you would lie
Im staying down route on my flight tomorrow
Carry on carry on
cos my roster doesnt matter

3 years my time has come,
gonna move to the left seat
or a dec will get beat
goodbye everybody all you bills and woes
if only
theyd stop hiring left seat hoes

Emirates ooooooooo
I dont want to cry
sometimes wish id never been hired at all

instrument



bridge

I see a little bleeding w@nker of a man
what a douche
what a douche
he cant read the ops manual
Thunderbolt and lightning very very frighten him

He just dont know,
he just dont know,
he just dont know,
an y thing
I wish hed go go go go

He just a poor sod from a poor company
hes just a plonker with a dodgy history
Hes such a c0ck and he patronises me
Easy come hard to go
will you let this hoe go.....

Insahallah no
they wont let this ****** go
let him gooo
no
let hom gooo
no

no no no no nono no
mama mia mama mia
mama mia will you go

Belezebub sent this tosser to frustrate me


To be continued its late

[MyWave]

...I could give anyone who wants them easily a dozen pointed questions that would require them to lie straight to your face to provide an acceptable answer....

Can you give us a "For Instance?"

[tbaylx]

Sure....

For Instance...

ask them about the Manchester F/O who was fired during training for performing a G/A
ask them about the Melbourne crew who had resignation letter presented to them less than 48 hours after the incident and before any meaningful investigation
ask them about the guys who spent 12 months in temp accomodation
ask them about the capped utility allowance contradicting the contract
ask them about the F/O in Columbo who took a picture of the crew
ask them about how a 20% increase in flying can be introduced overnight with no change in pay
ask them about a new hire's typical schedule on the airbus (hint you'll be a vampire with a head bob)
ask them about the current upgrade requirements and how long they can guarantee they will stay the same so the goalposts don't move

and the list can go on longer.

if you're young, single and realize that just because the airline isn't furloughing guys does not mean you have job stability and are prepared to develop a large amount of patience in a short time then it's not a terrible gig. If you have a family to support and want to spend time with them forget about it from a financial perspective and a stability perspective. Dosen't take but one perceived slight against the wrong people or the airline deciding today is the day that they would like to make a point to the rest of the pilots using your particular misfortune and you are history. No union, no labour laws, they make and change the rules as they go and you have no choice but to accept it. I would also like to point out to the regular "if you don't like it you can leave' crowd that isn't as easy as you make it seem once you've packed up and moved around the world to the sandpit...

it's new hire beware..make sure you know what you are gettign into, it's not all sunshine and roses.

[Panama Jack]

I would also like to point out to the regular "if you don't like it you can leave' crowd that isn't as easy as you make it seem once you've packed up and moved around the world to the sandpit...

Amongst other issues, there is the little Catch-22 one in Canada, affectionatly known as the "Red Pass."

[Gino Under]

I wonder if we sometimes credit ourselves with having too much intelligence?

The "other" forum is overloaded with Emirates whiners. Yeah. They're whiners because that's how the majority of their posts read.
I know I credit pilots with the ability to recognize a deterioriating situation and having the intelligence to do something about it. It's a skill we apply each time we take an aircraft into the air, or should. So, why is it we have difficulty when it comes to our personal lives?

The whiners, however, expect/wish/hope outsiders wishing to consider 'something' at Emirates, will embarass themselves at a job fair by asking stupid questions on their behalf. These whiners also recognize and understand how difficult it's going to be when they decide to return to their home and native land following a gig like Emirates. THEN the whining will really start.

Why would anyone at a job fair like this with a modicum of intelligence ever pose any of these questions to an Emirates recruiter? Stupidity, perhaps?

The whiners would serve themselves and their loved ones better by finding employment elsewhere, resign from Emirates (the airline that doesn't add up) and move on to better things.

If you're a whiner from Emirates, and you happen to read this post, PLEASE? Get on with your life and may I wish you all the best and every success. Surely to goodness, as a professional pilot with lots of responsibility in life, you've used that gawd given intelligence to recognize a deteriorating situation at your airline. Use that gawd given intelligence and ability to do something about it and stop encouraging outsiders to join a fight that has nothing to do with them.

Gino Under

[complexintentions]

Wow! Have you ever been outside of Quebec, that oh-so-productive-and-competitive province?

Perhaps you should try living in the Middle East and working for Emirates before making a complete jackass of yourself.

No one really expects anyone to ask difficult questions of the recruiters, and doing so won't benefit anyone currently working at Emirates. No one is asked to join any "fight", if anything we're advising them NOT to join without using that intelligence you blather on about.

There is a point being made - that they aren't telling the truth. If people won't ask them questions, for fear of getting answers they don't like, at least educate themselves about what it's really like working and living here. Otherwise don't come, or they WILL become one of the "whiners". We've seen it all before.

Clear now?

And do tell, why the "Emirates whiners" even matter to you? The only thing worse than whiners are pompous asses who whine about them, without even having any clear motivation. Talk about needing a life.

[Localizer]

[Gino Under]

complexintentions

In your case, it turns out ignorance IS just ignorance. But, I'll respond anyway.

Since we know nothing of each other, I'll just say most of your comments aren't necessarily silly, just ignorant. I won't jump into a pissin contest over what I know or where I've been. I don't post my resume on a rumour network or gossip forum but I've done my time in the sandbox. I know what I'm talking about and yes, the diatribe is mostly whining about situations and a life many in OMDB are unable to change. What a surprise? I've made the transition back so I've been through the process and if you're one of the ones who will one day have to make that transition, let me say this, you better get a grip for you're in for one helluva a shock. Be prepared, it's going to cost you big time and it ain't just about the dosh $$$$.

As for the whiners at Emirates, (which not all of them are) you'd think they would be able to figure a few things out. But, that doesn't appear to be the case. This isn't news, but I'll say it anyway. The recruiters have to find suitably experienced crew to fill the ever increasing slots before aircraft deliveries overwhelm the training department, check pilots, line pilots and instructors. What will they do when they have to park airplanes? Explain things to Shk. Moh? How do you think that will go over, with his enormous ego? Do you think that will be in your favour?
Scaring off potential recruits to help improve things is completely counterproductive and will have an even worse effect on what it is you're trying to improve.
It's not the EK whiners that matter to me, it's the non-stop whining on this and other forums that's starting to wear thin.
Suck it up. If you're stuck in that mess, sort it out. Get as many of your buddies over there to fill those vacancies and things will start a cycle of change. I honestly don't care about the whiners from Emirates, their lot in life is their lot not mine. I understand the 'whining' that's going viral on these forums. If you DO work for Emirates consider yourself lucky you're working for an airline that doesn't have to deal with real airline economics. An airline that isn't laying off, yet. An airline that's taking delivery of (what are they smoking?) 58 A380s!!! Do many EK crew actually believe all of this, or is the whining just signs of it all starting to unravel?

Gino Under

btw, I've had my EK interview. They sent me an acceptance package and the whole nine yards. I was over the moon. Three days later I recevied a PFO letter. Which one should I have accepted. Doesn't matter, I threw both into the garbage. I'm not with EK and what does that tell me about EK recruiting??? A lot.

[Tommyboy]

Hey Guys,

Another interesting article. 700 pilots in the next 18 months????? How these guys are going to recruit these numbers will be a challenge. Sounds like they already have their hands full with other problems there.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... onths.html

[tica]

Emirates orders 32 Airbus A380 for $11.5b
Adds to 58 previously ordered A380 aircraft

Gulf News Report
Published: 15:37 June 8, 2010


An Emirates Airbus A380 is reflected in the sunglasses of German model Eva Padberg at the International Aerospace Exhibition on Tuesday at Schoenefeld airport in Berlin. The biannual show is the third biggest in Europe after those in Britain and France and was expected to draw more than 1,100 exhibitions from 37 countries. Image Credit: AFPImage 1 of 6123456Dubai: Emirates, the biggest Arab carrier on Tuesday announced an order with Airbus for an additional 32 A380 aircraft taking the total firm order for the iconic flagship of the 21st century to 90 super-jumbos.

The order for the additional aircraft has a list price of $11.5 billion (Dh42.2)

This tops up the airline’s exiting orderbook 143 aircraft worth of $48 billion in list price. The airline has a fleet of 147 aircraft – the biggest in the Middle East and North Africa

This comes within a month after Emirates Group – which owns the airline - reported a $1.1. billion net profitfs for year ending March 31, 2010, quadrupling its previous years’ profits.

Read special section on the A380

Shaikh Ahmad Bin Saeed Al Maktoum, Chairman and Chief Executive, Emirates Airline and Group and Tom Enders, Airbus President and CEO, signed an agreement at the Berlin Airshow today during a ceremony witnessed by German Chancellor Angela Merkel and other dignitaries.

“This latest order, adding to 58 A380s previously ordered, affirms Emirates’ strategy to become a world leading carrier and to further establish Dubai as a central gateway to worldwide air travel. The A380 is our flagship in terms of passenger comfort, innovation, operating and environmental efficiency and revenue generation,” Shaikh Ahmad Bin Saeed Al Maktoum.

“Our latest commitment signals Emirates’ confidence in the growth to come in a thriving aviation sector as we build our fleet for tomorrow,” he added.

“Emirates supported the development of the A380 from the earliest days, a project employing tens of thousands of Europe’s best people and today’s increased order, is the best endorsement I can imagine. On behalf of all of us at Airbus, we thank Emirates for their support. The A380 is indeed a remarkable eco-efficient aircraft, a profit generator for airlines and a great flying experience for passengers,” said Tom Enders.

Emirates, the second largest airline in the world in available seat kilometres, is on track to become one of the largest airlines in the world.

In addition to the orders placed on Tuesday, Emirates owns 58 Airbus 380s, 70 Airbus 350s, 18 Boeing 777-300s and 7 Boeing air freighters on order totaling 143 wide-body aircraft worth more than $48 billion.

In a year where the aviation industry was rocked by the economic downturn, Emirates Airline recently reported its 22nd year of profit, up 416 percent to close at US$ 964 million (Dh3.5 billion) over its 2008-09 profits of $187 million (Dh686 million).

From the delivery of its first A380 in July 2008, to receiving it 10th A380 on 7th June 2010 from the Airbus plant in Hamburg, Emirates is now serving eight international destinations with the super-jumbo aircraft including London Heathrow, Toronto, Paris, Jeddah, Bangkok, Seoul, Sydney and Auckland.

The airline will start A380 services to Beijing from 1st August, Manchester from 1st September and will return service to New York’s John F. Kennedy (JFK) airport on 1st October.

[complexintentions]

hey Gino,

To be honest your reply was pretty incomprehensible: you've "done your time" in the "sandbox", but not with EK, you interviewed with EK, and were accepted, and happy about it, and then rejected, but threw away both replies. Or something like that? Whatever.

You state that the "whining" has gone "viral". Any thoughts as to why that is, instead of just dismissing from your perspective as an outsider? No chance at all in your mind that perhaps a great deal of just MIGHT have some validity? If YOU find it's "getting a little thin", you should try LIVING the job at EK instead of whining about people raising complaints that only the most obtuse would find unreasonable. Don't be too concerned about the "cost" of reintegration into a real society again, it may not even be in Canada and my sights have already moved outside of aviation. The $$$ should be just fine, none of it is Canada OR Dubai. I didn't just arrive in the place.

A few thoughts on two recent announcements. As far as hiring 700 pilots in 18 months, it would appear to me more smoke and mirrors. The word is out with Emirates: they are simply not the employer they once were. Period. That is not being overly negative, it is still a job if you come from Zimbabwe or are desperately unemployed. But it has declined spectacularly over the last 18 months and this is not news! Disparaging those who point out the changes and the lies will not change the truth. The current theory is that the unrealistically high recruitment target is to try and entice those "on the fence" that they better hurry up so they can be in the first few hundred, basically marketing, "building buzz". But to suggest that they will hire another 25% of the current pilot force in the next year and a half is not reality. The numbers are applying, and the training infrastructure on that scale doesn't even exist. Just more lies.

As to the A380s...never forget....announcements are free! Perhaps if they had taken delivery of a more significant number of the original order, the new order would have more credibility. But it does sound impressive, doesn't it? (Hint: the key to all of Emirates is contained in that statement....SOUNDS IMPRESSIVE.)

Time will tell. But caveat emptor if you choose to take their word at face value. It simply isn't the way the culture works to be honest or transparent, and THAT is the single biggest thing people who have no experience in the region need to be aware of.

[Gino Under]

complexintentions

First of all, you won't get much sympathy from me (whether you need it or not is immaterial) by insulting me. so....whatever? I'm just adding my personal opinion based on my experience in the Emirates on a chat room and I could care less whether we agree or not. Let's be honest, it's more fun when we disagree.

I'm sure the complaints from EK aircrew are valid. Wherever they're posted. The daily insights into how miserable the life of an EK jock is getting, without a doubt, is also valid. I can also understand if every expat pilot flying with QR, EY, or GF squawked the same squawk. I've watched the management videos on YouTube. I understand your gripes. I get it. But enough is enough. We can't solve YOUR problems. And even though we outsiders may or may not understand what's really going on inside the EK family, what positive steps are you guys taking toward improving things or turning things around?

Are you honestly suggesting potential candidates confront EK recruiters with embarrassing questions and then have them try to pursue a career with your airline through that same recruiter makes any sense at all? With what purpose in mind would you be doing that? Do you seriously think things will improve at EK if employees like yourself insist on scaring off potential candidates, thereby adversely affecting the numbers needed at EK while further eroding your lot in life even remotely approaches sensible? It's what most of these posts advocate. If you do, and it sounds like it, then there is no point in a further discussion. Is there? Sorry, but it sounds to me you'd like instant gratification from EK management so you won't have to pull the plug. Starting with a pay rise. Would that be about right?

Best of luck down the road just the same, and cheers

(Viral? Yes. Viral!)
Gino Under