What's included in an annual

[eddyb123]

I am just interested in knowing what items are included in an annual? I see some people charge a flat rate and include for instance researching AD's, as well as an oil chagne and the inspection of the A/C. Standard single engine Piper.
Thanks

[iflyforpie]

I base a single engine fixed-gear annual on 12 billable hours. This includes the CAR 625 APP B and 12 month APP C inspection items, an AD search for the past two years, and tech log updates. On top of this is the oil, oil filter, air filter, and any other parts you might need, plus time to fix any major snags (small ones--like broken anchor nuts or missing screws--I will usually include in the annual). Owner assistance will knock off a few hours.

I know we aren't the cheapest, at $90/hr, but you usually get what you pay for. I've had to bring more than a few of the $400 annual aircraft back to life after 10 years of insufficient maintenance...

I would budget $2000 for each annual. Most wind up between $1000-$1500 if there is nothing major. The last one I did was $3500 due to a jug change and mag 500 hour.

[Strega]

One thing that Is worth mentioning is your annual is an inspection! If you maintain your aircraft properly throughout the year, your annual will be inexpensive. If you skimp all year, then your annual inspection turns into an annual repair session

[eddyb123]

Thanks iflyforpie, That's the info I wa looking for but can you tell me what is involved in searching for AD's. Is it pulling up the list TC has on their site and crosschecking to the log book?

[SeptRepair]

In a nut shell yes. The real time consuming part can be the miscellaneous AD section. TC doesn't have a list for your aircraft. Thats were the experience part comes in from an AMEs perspective. If a company is offering to do an AD search and only charges you an hour or so then it may be money well spent if you are unsure of exactly what it is your looking for.

[Hornblower]

An AD search is something that an owner should do themselves. I usually encourage them to do it, since ultimately they are responsible for the maintenance on their aircraft, and it really helps them familiarize themselves with the tech records and maintenance history of the aircraft. That being said, a lot of private pilot owners can't be bothered and would rather pay ... in that case I would agree with Septrepair that a one or two hour charge is a bargain.

Furthermore, joining an owners group is also a good idea (i.e. CPA, SWPC), as they have some insights on the specific type that an AME may not have, depending on the experience he has with the type. Also spend some time reviewing manufacturer’s service bulletins, since they will also give you some background info on your type, and you can then figure out for yourself which ones, if any, have been incorporated or which ones you may want to incorporate. Some service bulletins are very important, notwithstanding that they may not have been made subject of an AD.

[iflyforpie]

An AD search is something that an owner should do themselves. I usually encourage them to do it, since ultimately they are responsible for the maintenance on their aircraft, and it really helps them familiarize themselves with the tech records and maintenance history of the aircraft. That being said, a lot of private pilot owners can't be bothered and would rather pay ... in that case I would agree with Septrepair that a one or two hour charge is a bargain.

Furthermore, joining an owners group is also a good idea (i.e. CPA, SWPC), as they have some insights on the specific type that an AME may not have, depending on the experience he has with the type. Also spend some time reviewing manufacturer’s service bulletins, since they will also give you some background info on your type, and you can then figure out for yourself which ones, if any, have been incorporated or which ones you may want to incorporate. Some service bulletins are very important, notwithstanding that they may not have been made subject of an AD.

A very big +1!

Some owners don't want to bother with the nitty-gritty, so they tell me to 'take care of it', and I do... for a price.

But if you show up with your tech logs up to date, a list of applicable ADs for me to look at, and a list of out of phases tasks for me to do, I will probably knock off two hours of billable time. Add some blood and sweat (panel removal and installation, seat and crap re and re, etc) and the total savings will probably be 4 hours. That's over $400 by the time you pay the Crown at a regular shop rate.

I've learned more about type-specific aircraft maintenance through Owner's Associations than any other source...

[corroded_camshaft]

TC doesn't have a list for your aircraft.

Is this not a good search for applicable ADs? http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/applicatio ... cs1401.asp

Thats what I've used and based myself off of. As well as references from type club, but the list I got from there was complete, as far as I know.

[iflyforpie]

DISCLAIMER
This website provides a list of airworthiness directives (ADs), which are known to Transport Canada (TC) to be applicable to Canadian registered aircraft, and to the engines, propellers and equipment installed on them.
Aircraft owners and maintainers can be assured that this is the most comprehensive publicly available source of such information.
Additionally, TC forwards notification of all new airworthiness directives to the affected Canadian owners.
To preclude operation of an aircraft in an unairworthy condition, owners of Canadian registered aircraft should also ensure that they receive all available continuing airworthiness information directly from the manufacturer.
TC endeavours to keep this website current. However, the arrival of recently imported aeronautical products, Web posting process, etc., may result in minor delays to the information being posted.
If in doubt about the existence or applicability of any AD, please consult your local TC Inspector, or TC Aircraft Certification, Continuing Airworthiness Division in Ottawa

Note: The listing provided of applicable Airworthiness Directives for the specific registration mark is based solely on airframe, engine and propeller model installation information on record with Transport Canada. Miscellaneous equipment ADs are not included - a separate search to determine applicability of equipment AD is required.

[eddyb123]

Thanks guys for all the input. I find it interesting that the AD search is such a big deal. I looked for ad's from TC and it doesn't take much to download. With it my prop and engine AD's pop up. I am a member of the owners group and since my A/C is a 1962 model you would think all Ad's are well known and the owners group talks about the new Ad's. It's new for me so it's a bit of a struggle but I think I have a handle on it.
I am confused about the AME's part though. If you say I'll do your inspection for X dollars. I'm not sure how you do an inspection without checking for an AD that has come out in the last 6 months, and it should be easy to see if it's in the teck log. Really I think the whole search thing should be done in an hr. and that should be included in the quoted price of the inspection.

[SeptRepair]

If your a repeat customer and the Ame is familiar with your aircraft then an hour isn't too unreasonable.

[CpnCrunch]

Thanks guys for all the input. I find it interesting that the AD search is such a big deal. I looked for ad's from TC and it doesn't take much to download. With it my prop and engine AD's pop up. I am a member of the owners group and since my A/C is a 1962 model you would think all Ad's are well known and the owners group talks about the new Ad's. It's new for me so it's a bit of a struggle but I think I have a handle on it.

I think the problem comes in with parts that might have been replaced. For example, on a 50-year old Cessna has the carb been replaced at some point in the past? And which model has it been replaced with? That will determine which ADs apply to it, and it can be a time consuming task trying to figure out the model number from the item itself and/or hunting through the logs from what I have seen (I'm an owner, not an AME).

As SeptRepair says above, if you go to the same AME all the time then the AD search should be much simpler after the first time as you know which recurring ADs apply and you only need to search for any new ADs since the last time (and TC helps you out by mailing the owner any new ADs which might apply).

I am confused about the AME's part though. If you say I'll do your inspection for X dollars. I'm not sure how you do an inspection without checking for an AD that has come out in the last 6 months, and it should be easy to see if it's in the teck log. Really I think the whole search thing should be done in an hr. and that should be included in the quoted price of the inspection.

Some AMEs don't bother checking for ADs. You need to check what you are getting for your fixed price annual!

[eddyb123]

Thanks CpnCrunch, I see where the search for the one part here and the other part there would be time consuming, and after the second or third inspection things would be easier. My inspection is history now and I will do better next time because I am more familar with the whole process. Thanks to all who helped.

[Hornblower]

In fact, ADs have nothing to do with an annual inspection. They are neither scheduled around an annual nor required at an annual. It just so happens that many have a 100 hour compliance requirement, and a few have an annual compliance requirement, though God only knows why. One time ADs should be done when they come due, and often the compliance due time does not coincide with the annual inspection due date. Flying the aircraft to annual without complying with ADs that have a compliance requirement that comes due before the annual would be illegal.

It happens that many private aircraft owners and pilots wait ‘till the annual to review ADs simply because it is more convenient, however that could get you into trouble. Always best to stay on top of it yourself and save the added expense and aggravation.

Personally I would have absolutely no qualms about signing an annual inspection on an aircraft without ever looking at an AD list or AD compliance requirement. The two issues are completely unrelated.

[crazy_aviator]

A complete 1st time AD check on the average plane may take as long as 4-6+ hours. the problem is this ----- it is not often that ames do a complete check of the a/c from new to the annual date then enter it into an ad list ,, showing applicability of ALL possible ads,,,,,if this were done, then the ame only needs to check the last 12 months for new ads on an annual !Pilots aught to stick with flying ,,ames should do the ad research and aught to think about the next years annual by record keeping and thereby saving the customer from having another comprehensive search!!

[Invertago]

Dumb question here, but where do all the ADs get listed for different aircraft if a guy wanted to do some searching on his own.

[AEROBAT]

What items should be included in your annual?....when I flew certified AC I always had a generous amount of cash stashed away that my wife didn't know about to avoid the "annual" beating I would get if she found out

[iflyforpie]

Dumb question here, but where do all the ADs get listed for different aircraft if a guy wanted to do some searching on his own.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/applicatio ... cs1401.asp