ACPA to fight Jazz's 757 acquisition

[YO_MAMMA]

I was talking to a AC driver and he mentioned that Air Canada Pilots Association is actually fighting the 757 acquisition by Jazz b/c they have an agreement between the two companies that Jazz is allowed to only operate something to the size of an RJ or similar and another issue is that operating on behalf of Thomas Cook that it will compete directly against AC Vacations also. Can anyone explain this agreement and direct competition issue?

[ZBBYLW]

He does not fully understand the contract. This is my best understanding. The scope cause is only for the flying that QK does for AC. Other then that flying QK is free to do what they want. If I where him I would be happy that that flying is going to QK rather then WS or Can Jet. It is not going to go to AC as the costs with AC would be too high.

[flyinhigh]

Typical, lets worry about little brother and what there doing.


Not the company out west that is well KICKING OUR ASS'S

[Turd Ferguson]

Air Canada was the ONLY flag carrier in the world that operated a 50 seat airplane. Why because only those who have had the chip implantation procedure done are smart enouigh to fly jets. Yup thats right you heard it here, everybody just doesn't measure up. See, you need a certain je ne c'est quoi, an arrogance or possibly your shit doesn't stink to fly a jet. How dare those idiots at WJ, Jazz, Canjet, Transat get their hands on such complicated machinery and operate them safely for years and years. Well its madness I tells ya madness. Only thing more pompous than an ACPA member would be possibly a BA pilot. Saw a ACPA GOD yesterday with a Max. 60 sticker on his flight bag. Classy, real classy.
FlyingHigh is right. Instead of navel gazing, get your heads out of your ass and focus on the REAL competition cause we are in this fight for survival together whether you like it or not.
If it ain't Boeing Turds not going Furgeson.

[polar one]

Not to be picky, but I think it is sais not c'est...or as we say in English.."i dont know what"
How appropriate that you used that phrase, mon ami.

[Samson]

Can someone explain to me like I'm 8 how Jazz operating 757's internationally doesn't interfere with AC's business? Come vacation time I can hop on a AC sched flight and make my own way or choose a much cheaper package deal with Thomas Jazz. I'll feel bad that the pilots taking me there are making peanuts for about 30 seconds (and only because I am one). AC loses rev and another nail gets driven into the coffin of this proffession. Am I way out to lunch?

[whiteguy]

Can someone explain to me like I'm 8 how Jazz operating 757's internationally doesn't interfere with AC's business? Come vacation time I can hop on a AC sched flight and make my own way or choose a much cheaper package deal with Thomas Jazz. I'll feel bad that the pilots taking me there are making peanuts for about 30 seconds (and only because I am one). AC loses rev and another nail gets driven into the coffin of this proffession. Am I way out to lunch?

It doesn't matter whether its Jazz or another company operating the B757s, they're still going to be there!

[whiteguy]

I was talking to a AC driver and he mentioned that Air Canada Pilots Association is actually fighting the 757 acquisition by Jazz b/c they have an agreement between the two companies that Jazz is allowed to only operate something to the size of an RJ or similar and another issue is that operating on behalf of Thomas Cook that it will compete directly against AC Vacations also. Can anyone explain this agreement and direct competition issue?

So because an AC pilot says so, its true. The only restriction in the size of aircraft Jazz can operate is under the CPA with AC, thats it. Under the same agreement they can operate larger aircraft for charters.

[twinpratts]

Let me guess... ACPA would be ok with it if THEY were allowed to fly the jets for T.C.

[yycflyguy]

Let me guess... ACPA would be ok with it if THEY were allowed to fly the jets for T.C.

You betcha. At our negotiated 767 rates.

[Lost in Saigon]

The rumour I hear is that it will be ex-Skyservice pilots flying the TC 757's under contract to JAZZ. I wouldn't be too surprised if it turns out to be ex-Skyservice 757's as well.

[CanadianEh]

Let me guess... ACPA would be ok with it if THEY were allowed to fly the jets for T.C.

You betcha. At our negotiated 767 rates.

+1.

ACPA doesn't want to participate in the race to the bottom. But I don't think we should all be so up in arms when we don't even know what Jazz will be paying the 757 pilots. Maybe we should just wait and see?

[Localizer]

Maybe we should just wait and see?

+1

[Pratt]

Let me guess... ACPA would be ok with it if THEY were allowed to fly the jets for T.C.

You betcha. At our negotiated 767 rates.

That would be one way to put the TC Canadian operation out of business pretty quickly.

[aerodude]

Let me guess... ACPA would be ok with it if THEY were allowed to fly the jets for T.C.

You betcha. At our negotiated 767 rates.

That would be one way to put the TC Canadian operation out of business pretty quickly

Then TC shouldn't be operating. Let's be frank folks, we can't using that excuse to keep lowering the standards of this industry.

[mattedfred]

so the only airline that should be in operation is AC because every other airline in Canada is lowering the bar?

[CanterburyTail]

Air Canada was the ONLY flag carrier in the world that operated a 50 seat airplane.

Ah, no.
Armavia operates the CRJ200, 50 seats
Azerbaijan Airlines operates 50 seat ATR-42s
LIAT operates 50 seater Dash 8-300s
Belavia the CRJ200
Brussels Airlines the ERJ-145

And there are many others.

[aerodude]

so the only airline that should be in operation is AC because every other airline in Canada is lowering the bar?

No there are other great companies out there. I just don't think we should keep justifying the lowering of salaries because some douche in upper management wants his 17 million bonus. Where do we stop? And no I don't think AC is the holy grail.

[mattedfred]

what is your point of reference for salaries? AC?

are you saying that every airline in Canada must pay the same pay rates separate from other working conditions?

are you able to compare status pay systems to non-status pay systems?

do you know what the pay rates will be for the JAZ 757?

[aerodude]

what is your point of reference for salaries? AC?

are you saying that every airline in Canada must pay the same pay rates separate from other working conditions?

are you able to compare status pay systems to non-status pay systems?

do you know what the pay rates will be for the JAZ 757?

Not comparing anything to anything. You are right mattedfred, I do not know what the pay for a JZA 757 driver since I do not work with them. The problem occurs when a carrier agrees to subcontract itslef for peanuts at the detriment of its employees and lowers the bar for everyone else. That being said, JZA seems to be a great company, I trust they will be fair with their payscale. We will see the results in the coming months.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

so the only airline that should be in operation is AC because every other airline in Canada is lowering the bar?

Last time I checked, you can make more as night manager of Burger King than as a fresh FO at AC....I think the bar has been lowered long ago....

[Inverted2]

Air Canada was the ONLY flag carrier in the world that operated a 50 seat airplane.

Ah, no.
Armavia operates the CRJ200, 50 seats
Azerbaijan Airlines operates 50 seat ATR-42s
LIAT operates 50 seater Dash 8-300s
Belavia the CRJ200
Brussels Airlines the ERJ-145

And there are many others.

Thanks for listing these major airlines! When is Armavia getting their A380s?

[CanterburyTail]

Air Canada was the ONLY flag carrier in the world that operated a 50 seat airplane.

Ah, no.
Armavia operates the CRJ200, 50 seats
Azerbaijan Airlines operates 50 seat ATR-42s
LIAT operates 50 seater Dash 8-300s
Belavia the CRJ200
Brussels Airlines the ERJ-145

And there are many others.

Thanks for listing these major airlines! When is Armavia getting their A380s?

May not be major, but they're all flag carriers.

If you want more major try
SAS with their Fokker 50s
LOT with their ERJ 145 and ATR 42s
Olympic and their ATR 42s and Dash 8-100s
Alitalia's ERJ-145s

[Lost in Saigon]

Also Vietnam Airlines with ATR-72's and Fokker F70's.

[yycflyguy]

so the only airline that should be in operation is AC because every other airline in Canada is lowering the bar?

Last time I checked, you can make more as night manager of Burger King than as a fresh FO at AC....I think the bar has been lowered long ago....

Actually a very valid point. Having gone through 27 months of flat pay it is truly an abomination. Westjet recently raised the new hire pay and I hope AC will follow with the next contract to at least match it, and hopefully raise it over what Westjet set. It is in my top three for changes I would like to see in the contract.