Problems with Paint Job

[just like flying]

I just had my plane painted and there are fish eyes all along one side of the plane, both in the white and coloured areas. There are also lots of areas where lint and crap is stuck in the paint. I pointed it out to the painter and was told they could "touch it up" anytime. The paint was done at a reputable shop and the old paint was completely stripped off before appling the new paint. After talking to some people about this and showing it to an AME, I think the problems can't simply be "touched up" but the effected areas will have to be stripped and re-painted.
Apparently this happens if the plane isn't cleaned properly before appling the new paint. I've attached a few photos, you may have to zoom in to get a good look.
Can anyone give me their expert opinion on this?

[Fox 3]

Sorry to see that.
Those fish eyes are directly caused by either poor prep work or a poor paint booth, both of which you are paying for (either directly or indirectly). I would ask for those areas that are fish eyed to be taken down to the metal when "touched up". Tell him he can call it whatever he wants, as long as "touch up" will make it perfect. What a shame that is, it takes a lot of work to paint an aircraft, why not clean it properly so all the hard work doesn't go to waste.

~FOX~

[HS-748 2A]

It looks like Endura. Is that what it is?

If it's not; if it's base-clear of some sort, it can be touched up and re-cleared.

'48

[just like flying]

Thanks for the responces.
My thought were poor prep job and/or contaminents in the paint booth too. Log book says "Aircraft disassemblerd and stripped for painting. Aircraft painted by XXX using PPG primer (7755), White (ESSS903654), Blue....
I'm not sure if it was Endura paint or not.
Unfortunatly I was out of the country when paint was being done, otherwise I would have seen this before the paint was finished. There are lots of areas where paint is already chipping/cracking and not adhearing to rivents, etc. Overall, very disapointed with the quality of finish. The plane looks great until you start to look close and see all the defects.

Don't know the best way to approach the paint shop on this, but they did say the paint has a 2 year warrenty...

[ahramin]

Sadly, it sounds like you got a poor paint job and that is something that will stay with the plane as long as the paint is there. By all means get as much redone as possible within the 2 year warranty period. Keep bringing it back over and over again as long as you can, but it's not like the paint will stop cracking and chipping once the 2 years is up.

[twistedoldwrench]

I've been involved in painting aircraft for a lot of years, and have seen a lot of problems. Yours looks like the shop was using unfiltered air in their paint gun, with an oil belching compressor. Either that or it was wipped of with dirty rags. You say is was a reputable shop, but was it an autobody shop or one experianced with aircraft. Paint chipping already sounds like an acrilic enamel rather than a urathane!

If you paid real money for the paint job it should be made right. If you got a bargan, well you may have just got what you paid for.

[c170b53]

Previous post has good points. Doesn't sound like polyurethane was used if its cracking and chipping right from the get go. If it is chipping is the primer coming off with it or has the paint not bonded to the primer? Minor blemishes you can live with, incompatible products or surface prep is a disaster which will continue until a redo is initiated. Knowledgeable Auto painters can do a fantastic job but just like knowledgeable Aero painters they know what they are worth.

[just like flying]

Paint was done by an Aircraft company that has a huge shop at a busy airport and not by an Auto shop, although when talking to the autobody shop that fixed my car after a hit and run, they were pretty surprized that this happened too. I can accept minor blemished here and there, but this is beyond minor and the price was not cheap!

Thanks for everyone's input. It has all been helpfull information.

[NormS]

I had the same problem with paint. It was traced down to dirty air. Luckily was just a small job.

[ottopilot]

I worked in a paint shop and was responsible for paint quality. Bad prep work or contamination is the cause of this. Usually failure wipe down the aircraft prior to applying the first coat after primer. This is not the end of the world. The best solution for you and the paint shop is to sand the areas with about a 6" overlap and respray. Resprays are harder with metallics but can still be done. You should also ask for them to do an adhesion test on a couple of areas to ensure your paint is not going to start peeling off. This is basically a pattern of small squares that are scratched into the paint and then a tape is applied over it and there will be a limit to what percentage of smaller squares peel off. Usually about %20 is acceptable. Have them test areas that are hard to reach (as cleaners getting paid $10/hr usually are not willing to take pride in their work) or would be contaminated with oil/fuel. Do not take no for an answer. PM me if you have any questions.

[SeptRepair]

Ah the life of working in a paint shop stripping and prepping aircraft for paint. Neck cranked up at an awkward angle under the wing of a Cessna scrubbing your hands raw with the incentive if your work hard you may get to pick up a wrench someday and continue your apprenticeship. The maintenance equivalent of a pilot working as a rampie.

[just like flying]

Update: Brought my plane back to the paint shop and left it with them to fix. After 3 weeks in the shop, I went to pick it up and they still didn't fix it right nor did they bother to fix all the areas. I lost time & money going there, the owner kept calling me by the wrong name although I kept correcting him and although he kept repeating that everything was warrentied, he didn't give it to me in writting. I could get someone else to fix this, but it would cost me and this shop has already been paid (well!) by insurnance, plus charger me some extra for "more complex graphics" and decals. I don't have time/money to waste going back and forth and I don't want to get in an arguement with this guy I just want my plane painted properly.
Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

[railker]

Would the BBB have any say in something like this? Or is that only for the companies accredited by the BBB?

[HS-748 2A]

Many paint shops will say up front; "What you're paying for here is a ten-foot paint job. We only warranty defects that stand out if you're within ten feet of the surface."

Looking at your pictures, probably, you've got a run-of-the-mill, "10' paint job". The paint looks like it was applied by somebody who knew what they were doing; it's glossy, not dry & no drips. Air source contamination is a very likely culprit for the fish eye.

If that's the service they provide but were not clear on that from the get-go, that's too bad and poor customer service.

Just Like Flying, if you don't mind - I presume the A/C is a 172; correct me if I'm wrong, and what did you pay for this work?

If it was under 10K, on an airplane that size, the ten-foot paint job is kind of a norm.

'48

[Hedley]

Take it to a different shop - this time, not the lowest bidder. Point out the flaws to them that you are unhappy with. Tell them not to do that. You want the aircraft stripped to the bare metal and repainted again from zero.

Free advice: next time you choose a shop, ask to see some of their previous work, to see if their work meets your standards.

[iflyforpie]

Having worked in a paint shop, here's my take.

Fisheyes = oil contamination. They didn't (de)wax and (de)grease properly after stripping the aircraft (you need to use Kleen-Sol or similar). The thing is, the primer will go on fine. But the paint will fisheye. There is nothing you can do except strip the affected panels and start over, (I am not sure a scuff and shoot would take care of it).

Contamination (lint, dust, etc) is an easier fix, but will still require scuffing and shooting each affected panel.

Not too many paint shops have booths that will fit an aircraft with the wings on. Our paint shop had two small booths, and they would run them with the doors open for ventillation, and spray down the floor with water before shooting. It worked pretty well but no job was ever absolutely perfect. Yours would be unacceptable in my books given the size and frequency of contamination.

I would hit them hard to get the work re-done properly. Our shop would have to retouch quite a few airplanes and it was just the cost of doing business. A paint job is no small or short-term investment.

[just like flying]

1) The shop was NOT the lowest bidder, they charged over $17,000 per plane (3 total).
2) I DID look at the shop prior to the painting, looked at other planes they painted and those in the shop, and the shop has been in business for many years.
3) The shop had no concerns about being paid for their work as it was an insurance claim and they were paid directly from Insurance...no questions asked.
4) Plane was stripped, cleaned, then painted. Fish eyes are only on one side of the plane and strut which tells me they missed an area and/or didn't re-clean/wipe that side prior to painting. Instead of taking responsibilty for the pool quality control, the Owner tried to blame contaminants on "something from the plane" and I said "it's your responsibility to ensure the surface is clean prior to painting".

So, they have been paid in full for less than ideal work and I have no hold back on them. They say they will warranty the work and do touch ups whenever needed, but unfortuantly I lost faith in this shop and the words of the owner. I'm frustrated and don't have time/money to waist flying back and forth to check their work (quality control lacking?) and the down time continues to cost my business! I'm concerned about the long term condition of the paint on the plane and instead of getting this shop to do other work on the interiors like I was planning, I will definately take my future business elsewhere!

[burhead1]

If it was a insurance job, have you signed off with the insurance?? if not tell them to deal with it.

[4074]

If it was a insurance job, have you signed off with the insurance?? if not tell them to deal with it.

Yup, I would call the insurance and tell them how you got taken for a ride with shoddy work and how you tried to work it out.

[CID]

Since this was an insurance job, I would definitely get them to fight this battle for you. In jobs that are the subject of an insurance claim, the insurance company is the client, not the airplane owner.

Showing up at the paint shop and asking for resolution won't motivate them to do anything. Showing up with an insurance company representative threatening to sue will definitely motivate them to make it right.

Based on the results on the first go-around, I might be looking for another place to do the re-paint. There's going to be a great deal of ill-will and I don't think I'd want some disgruntled painters touching my airplane.

You might want to talk with the owners of the other aircraft that were part of this claim. If they have similar results, you can approach the insurance company together. It would make your claim stronger as well.