When is the right time to write the ATPL exams?

[rocco1]

Considering the the exams expires after 2 years and for employment purposes, when is he right amount of hours when you should start to consider writting your ATPL exams?

[E B]

You can start to consider writing them any time I suppose. If you are actually going to write them wait till you either have the requirements or will have them within two years after writing.

[JohnnyDrama]

I agree with the above but I would also say it can be good to just write them as soon as you have 750 hrs. As long as you have some spare time to study I would just get them out of the way. It is a good review and it doesn't hurt to have it on you resume. The worst case is that you will have to write them again. It is $105 per exam though and knowing transport this price will probably go up over the next 2 years. Just remember that you will have to do a multi-IFR ride within 12 months of applying for the license.

[sky Rookie]

does ne1 have the reference of atpl currency. Once its said and done, paperwork in, and license in hand. What do you have to do to maintain it?

[Big Pistons Forever]

does ne1 have the reference of atpl currency. Once its said and done, paperwork in, and license in hand. What do you have to do to maintain it?

Post the CARS reference which is confusing you and I will be happy to contribute my .02 cents.

[rocco1]

be carefull! if you jump on the right seat of anything too soon, you might have a problem getting the minimum requirements to get the ATPL, so the 2 years might not be sufficient, and you will see your exams expiring. I think once you pass the 1000 hours with enough PIC (and good night time) is the time to write the exams

[North Shore]

I ended up writing then twice - once at ~ 750 hours, and then again after that, and still ended up renting a 152 for night hours a week before the exams expired the 2nd time. To save yourself a lot of stress, make sure you are going to get the time within ~ 6 months of your writing the exams.

WRT 'currency', IIRC you just have to have a current class 1 instrument ride, no?

[rocco1]

North Shore is the example that I was talking about. It Would be better write an IATRA rather then the ATPL exams if you really want to show to your ``potential`` employer somthing more then just your licences.

[RA-DOME]

Depends what you are "planning" to fly.

I was f/o on a "single-crew" machine that was operated with two crew under an ops-spec when I wrote mine. In this case, if I had continued to fly single-crew machines after my exams, the previous mentioned case applies, and my exams would have "expired" after two years.

However, if you write the ATPL exams before getting a ride on a "two-crew" machine, (which I did while flying the single-crew machine) your exams will actually be good for life, provided that within the two year exam validity, you get the two-crew check, stay current on type and IFR. Lots of ifs...

Worked for me anyways, and when I sat down with TC to get my ATPL they looked at when I wrote my exams to make sure it was indeed before the ride on two-crew. Otherwise this case does not apply.

Food for thought...

[Caly]

How many exams must be written for the ATPL assuming you hold a commercial multi ifr? Is it just 2?

[square]

Actually you have to have done a PPC ride on any group 1 type in the past 12 months to get the ATPL.

[skypirate88]

Like most above have said it is very dependent on your own situation. Some food for thought though...my understanding was that the exam content is soon up for a change to focus more attention on operational control. The only reason this may be an issue is because of the range of requirements between an air taxi operation vs. an airline (as an example).
I wrote the exams not too long ago, and to my suprise, they were very straight forward by TC's standards.
Best of luck

[JohnnyDrama]

You do not have to have a PPC in order to get the ATPL. You do have to have a group 1 IFR within 12 months of applying. You also have to have both the SAMRA and SARON exams completed within 24 months of application. The only thing I am confused about is the situation that was stated above regarding getting a PPC on a two crew machine and having the exams be valid forever.

In the CAR's under application for the ATPL it only says you need the group 1 and both exams completed.

Anyone know of a CAR's reference that will clear this up?

[RA-DOME]

FOUND IT BOYS !!!

source -> http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/manag ... 003.htm#s6

... Before dedicated examinations existed for the two-crew type ratings, the ATPL examinations were used for that rating. Applicants who wrote the two ATPL examinations (SAMRA and SARON or HAMRA and HARON) for a type rating and passed with a mark of 70% or higher and obtained a type rating within 24 months are considered to have met the knowledge requirements for the ATPL indefinitely.
[Refer to Paragraph 400.03(2)(b) of the CARs]...

Here it is straight from the CARS

source -> http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/regse ... htm#400_03

400.03(1) Subject to subsection (3), tests, skill letters and examinations, including all sections of a sectionalized examination, that are required for the issuance of a permit or licence or for the endorsement of a permit or licence with a rating shall be completed during the 24-month period immediately preceding the date of the application for the permit, licence or rating.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of examinations that are required for the issuance of

(b) an airline transport pilot licence if examinations were previously written

(i) for the endorsement of a type rating, a mark of 70 per cent or higher was obtained on the examination and the type rating was issued;

[whiteguy]

With regards to PICUS for the ATPL, I know you can apply half your PICUS time up to 100 hrs towards your PIC time. My question is when can you start logging PICUS, do you need to have 150 PIC before you can count any of it?

[JohnnyDrama]

Thanks a lot RA-DOME! I've been looking for that for a while.

As for PIC US...I think you can log all of it you just can't count it all towards the ATPL.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[whiteguy]

Thanks a lot RA-DOME! I've been looking for that for a while.

As for PIC US...I think you can log all of it you just can't count it all towards the ATPL.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You can only count 100 hrs max toward the ATPL. I'm just wondering if you need 150 hrs PIC before you can start logging PICUS to use towards the ATPL?

[JohnnyDrama]

Thanks a lot RA-DOME! I've been looking for that for a while.

As for PIC US...I think you can log all of it you just can't count it all towards the ATPL.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You can only count 100 hrs max toward the ATPL. I'm just wondering if you need 150 hrs PIC before you can start logging PICUS to use towards the ATPL?

You need the 150 PIC before you can start the PIC US.

421.11(4)

(4) The conditions for crediting an applicant's flight time are as follows:
(amended 1998/12/01; no previous version)

(a) An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane shall be given credit for up to 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time under supervision, provided the applicant:

(i) holds a Commercial Pilot Licence - Aeroplane with a multi-engine rating and the aeroplane type rating in which the flight time is acquired;

(ii) has a Group I instrument rating; and

(iii) has accumulated a minimum of 150 hours pilot-in-command flight time in aeroplanes.

[BTD]

Please keep in mind, that you cannot just start logging PIC U/S to your hearts content. As if you say are flying with another captain or something. There are a lot of other prerequisites that must be met from a company stand point and an operation one before you can begin logging it for the ATPL.

There are many threads on here covering that. One inparticular that Just Curious and I both contributed to quite heavily.

BTD

*Edit spelling: Too early

[RA-DOME]

My PIC U/S was done prior to having the 150 PIC for the ATPL, and yes only 50% of your PIC U/S is credited for the ATPL requirements and I believe it's still only 100 you can use, so get 200 PIC U/S @ 50% and then all you need in smaller aircraft will be 150 PIC, if that makes sense...

The 150 PIC requirement just has to be met in order to use the PIC U/S towards the ATPL, the CARS don't state that it must be completed prior to commencing the the PIC U/S. Again, this is how I interpreted the regs and it worked for me.

As for who can do PIC U/S:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/regse ... htm#401_11

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/regse ... htm#421_11

... All air operators using large [read two crew at > 12,500 lbs] aeroplanes may institute programs of supervision to allow co-pilots to credit flight time as pilot-in-command time.

... or

... Air operators using small [read minimum crew of one but with ops spec for two crew...] aeroplanes and Air operators using helicopters may institute a program of supervision referred to in subsection (1) provided that they have received authorization to do so from the Minister based on the operator’s ability to institute such a program in a safe and effective manner.

Basically...

Another way to credit co-pilot time is Pilot-in-command Under Supervision (PIC U/S). This program can be instituted by large and small air carriers, allowing co-pilots to credit up to 200 hours co-pilot time as 100 hours PIC U/S. This means that 50% of up to 200 hours co-pilot time can be credited as PIC experience if approved and if completed within 12 months of the application date. You can apply 50 hours PIC U/S cross country night to meet the 25 hour night PIC cross-country requirement.

You'll also need this when you go to apply for the ATPL...

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/gener ... ac0503.htm

[Koizie1]

PICUS, PIC U/S? What does it mean?

[Koizie1]

Oh wait, I get it. PIC under supervision right?

PICUS reminds me of POTUS.