Slave Labour?

[xsbank]

Is it just me or does a 14 days on call and 4 off schedule sound like slave labour? Must be able to be at the airport in one hour or less? Also, paying only 5 figures for a Challenger 605 captain? How could anybody even consider that unless they were starving? "Here, you look after this 30 million dollar airplane and we'll make sure that after the first month when the new airplane thing wears off, you will be really unhappy and you'll never see your family again." "Oh yeah, that layover in LA? That was your 4 days."

[Big Pistons Forever]

Sigh...... and this is for a job as captain flying a top of the line corporate jet, the very top of the corporate career path.....the slow but inexorable decline of pilot terms and conditions continues

The final straw is the fact they feel they have to mention that you will actually be allowed to sleep, although they are carefull to mention it is 8 hrs in every 24hr period. I have seen that before.....you have been hanging around the phone all day waiting for the flight dispatch "thinks" is coming, and then get the call at 2200, "Glad you enjoyed your 8 hrs of "sleep time" so hurry up getting to the airport as we have a 14 hr duty day planned for you

[xsbank]

Yep - look what you've got to look forward to. Presumably the only way we will ever get our working conditions to improve will be to stop training anyone for 5 years and let the supply dry up. Nothing against all you wannabes, but if you will eat sh*t and struggle in crap jobs for years and you end up flying a Challenger, which used to be near the pinnacle of corporate, for much less than $100,000, no benefits, no pension, no security, NO DISABILITY OR INSURANCE, LESS than 4 days off a month (sorry, I am shouting, I know), you might as well quit right now while you are still young enough to find some real work. Even driving a Greyhound bus gets you more time off and more money, home more often and you don't have to get a medical as often or go to Recurrent. They have benefits!

Operators have found they don't have to pay for experience and maturity any more, just any warm body that can pass a type ride that they can pay the least to. I wonder if the owners know what's going on?

Air Partners has now officially joined that wonderful club established by Voyageur.

Edited to add: 78 days off a year, assuming 2 week holidays, is 22 days less than a clerk at Home Depot gets. Plus, do you do your recurrent on your days off?

[iflyforpie]

Where do I sign up?

[Doc]

You know they'll be swamped with applications. Pilots are among the stupidest forms of humanity!

[JULIETTE]

With jobs like this, the company is going to get exactly what it pays for. If a corporate pilot has the experience to take on a job like this and is willing to accept the crappy term, there must be a reason they couldn't get a better job, ie; a crappy pilot.

This "dragging on the bottom of the barrel" attitude might work for allot of companies, but I am sure it will eventually spell disaster for a company like this. There is allot of competition in the market around Calgary, and it comes down to who has the best product. Pilots are a a big part of how good the product is. I have heard from allot of Air Partners pilots that this company feels pilots are very expendable and are not given any respect. They are obviously only wanting the cheapest possible solution to their pilot staffing and are willing to sacrifice quality to get it. No self respecting pilot would take a job like this, but as we all know there are many pilots out there with little self respect so they should have no problem filling it.

Looking on their website, I think it is interesting how they try to sell something that just is not there. They list Affiliates on their site; Transport Canada, the NBAA, Cessna, Hopkins and associates, ect.

That would be like a cab company listing the RCMP because they follow their rules, Ford motor company because they drive Fords, The dealership where they bought them, McDonals restaraunt, and Canadian tire.

Its bad how they have to list that they will allow you the mandatory amount of sleep in their job ads. Almost like they have a reputation that they wouldn't allow you to, and had to list it on their like they are doing you a huge favor by actually following the rules.

[Panama Jack]

I have to agree, yes, sadly these type of below average Terms and Conditions offers will still receive applicants. Let's face it, the decline already started years ago and some people are now looking at the landscape and figure it is an opportunity to get time on an attractive type, build some experience, then head off for the Middle East, India or Asia where the employment environment is overall better (better renumeration package and respect and lower taxes).

I know this type of logic is self-defeating to the profession, but the reality is that we are in an environment where there is a lack of backing and reward for maintaining a certain professional protocol (and what exactly should that be and who would set it?).

Canadians have become to aviation industry what Filipinos are to the merchant marine.

[xsbank]

P.J. you hit it on the head - that is one of the profoundest statements made on this site: "Canadians have become to the aviation industry what Filipinos are to the merchant marine."

I would add that to my avatar, if I had thought of it first....

[Carrier]

Quote: "Where do I sign up? "

Is that for driving a Greyhound bus? It looks like it or driving a city bus is a better job than being a pilot!

[Doc]

Quote: "Where do I sign up? "

Is that for driving a Greyhound bus? It looks like it or driving a city bus is a better job than being a pilot!

If you're looking for security and benefits, it probably is.

[rocco1]

As long as there will be unemployment..there will be even pilots

[Rowdy]

Seriously? Brutal.

[Lurch]

I've read the ad twice now and maybe it's because I'm tired but where does it state it only pays 5 figures???

Not that it matters what they pay, if you don't treat your staff right, a shit company is still a shit company.

Lurch

[Doc]

...."must be willing to sign a standard training loan......"MAGGOT ALERT!!!! MAGGOT ALERT!!!!
As an Airbus once said....."Retard, Retard..."

[Jack Klumpus]

Tim Morgan
Founder & Chief Executive Officer - Air Partners Corp.


Tim started his flying career in 1972 at Mount Royal College in Calgary, Alberta and graduated with an Aviation Diploma in 1974. His first job was as a flight instructor and he eventually went on to become a commercial airline captain for Time Air.

In 1983 Tim established Morgan Air Services, offering various aviation-related services including flight training, aircraft leasing, aircraft maintenance and aviation consulting services. In 1995, Tim became one of four original founding shareholders of WestJet Airlines Ltd. and served as the Executive Vice President of Operations between 1995 and 2005. Tim continues to be recognized within the international business and aviation community for being instrumental in making WestJet one of the most successful airlines in recent aviation history. In 2000, Tim and his fellow WestJet founders received the Worldwide Award for Teamwork at the World Entrepreneur of the Year celebrations. And in 2001, they were awarded the "Business Ethics" award from the Better Business Bureau of Southern Alberta.

Tim currently serves as a board member for Blackdog Resources Ltd. and also serves on the Board of Governors for Mount Royal College. In addition, Tim is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Enerjet, a start-up airline specializing in providing services to underserved Canadian markets.

Tim and his family currently reside in Calgary, Alberta

http://www.airpartners.ca/team/timmorgan

[xsbank]

Interesting, I guess that just shows us that we really do eat our young. Note the restraint I showed when discussing this fine fellow?

[co-joe]

14 on call 4 off is insane...not even Bar XH would make people work a schedule that shitty!

Hope you like playing Xbox, or watching TV cause you'll have NO LIFE if you take this job.

[TG]

Canadians have become to aviation industry what Filipinos are to the merchant marine.

Actually, if we (Western civilization) keep begging for worldwide universal pilot's license, open sky agreements, etc...All while aviation's companies are looking to cut wages while increasing workload.
The all Aviation industry will find itself in the same position as merchant marine.

Captains might keep their positions for the time being but I wouldn't bet too much about the rest of the crew

[iflyforpie]

The next thing we need is a flag of convenience so we don't have to deal with TC.

[TG]

Thanks iflyforpie, I missed this part!

[Carrier]

Quotes: "Is that for driving a Greyhound bus? It looks like it or driving a city bus is a better job than being a pilot!"
"If you're looking for security and benefits, it probably is."

Another big benefit of having a Class 1 driver's licence which covers truck driving as well as buses is the number of employers you can work for. In many cities there is only one air operator. If a bullying chief pilot or a clique of vindictive pilots have it in for you and you are dismissed you have to move to another city or even province to find employment again as a pilot. This is expensive. It becomes even more expensive if you have a spouse who works, a house that has to be sold and replaced, etc.
Almost always in these one air operator cities there are numerous employers for drivers. If it does not work out at one then it is fairly easy to move to another in the same city. The spouse keeps the same job and you continue to live in the same house.
Some air operators and their "management" use their monopoly position to exploit pilots or force some of their pilots to become part of the abuse process in fear of themselves losing their jobs. It's a big lever!

An example of this problem is mentioned in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=64887

[Doc]

Quotes: "Is that for driving a Greyhound bus? It looks like it or driving a city bus is a better job than being a pilot!"
"If you're looking for security and benefits, it probably is."

Another big benefit of having a Class 1 driver's licence which covers truck driving as well as buses is the number of employers you can work for. In many cities there is only one air operator. If a bullying chief pilot or a clique of vindictive pilots have it in for you and you are dismissed you have to move to another city or even province to find employment again as a pilot. This is expensive. It becomes even more expensive if you have a spouse who works, a house that has to be sold and replaced, etc.
Almost always in these one air operator cities there are numerous employers for drivers. If it does not work out at one then it is fairly easy to move to another in the same city. The spouse keeps the same job and you continue to live in the same house.
Some air operators and their "management" use their monopoly position to exploit pilots or force some of their pilots to become part of the abuse process in fear of themselves losing their jobs. It's a big lever!

An example of this problem is mentioned in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=64887

Do you really think, even for a bloody minute, that aviation is the only industry that has bosses that can "bully" folks into doing things "un cool"??
That aviation is the only industry where there "one offs" in a community?
That aviation is the only industry you might find "cliques" of workers??
Time to move out of mom and dad's basement and smell the roses of life!

[2R]

Modern slavery is a fact of life in the post Globalization world.
There are many great benefits to be had in this brave new world.If you ever need a kidney or liver you can get one really cheap from one of the many willing donors only too willing to sell themselves .
Who knows i may even buy a few slaves myself ,might be cheaper than toilet paper

[Jean-Pierre]

This new "job" posting is hilarious:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=64927

"There is no compensation structure identified at this stage but may be discussed over time.È

Getting bored, lonely, old fogies to come work for you for free = slave labour.

[xsbank]

I read that one too - give us the benefit of your life's experience so we can use it to our competitive advantage, you can gaze on our wonderful fleet of aerodynes and you won't have to hang out at the Legion all day. I was REALLY tempted.