WJ and ETOPS

pika · Post by **pika** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:32 pm

Anybody have an idea when 180 minutes might be happening?

-700 · Post by **-700** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:30 pm

September.

RB211 · Post by **RB211** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:21 pm

September? How can you be so sure? Isn't it up to TC. Do you have an Ops spec for 90 or 120 yet? Generally it is required to reach 180 in stages.

Is the whole -700 fleet going to be maintained to ETOPS criteria or will it be a number of designated a/c?

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:48 am

It'll be the fall, rest assured.

pika · Post by **pika** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:17 am

Care to make a friendly wager on your "sure thing"? I suggest it won't be the fall...

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:37 am

never bet on anything on aviation... however i will take a bet on when WJ get's 120 minutes!

Blastor · Post by **Blastor** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:37 pm

It's been September since last march!

-700 · Post by **-700** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 5:14 pm

Just got off trainig, we are currently approved at 120 mins but it gets us nowhere. All NG's 600,700 and 800's will be ETOPS certified although only 7's and 8's will have the range. 600's will not be comimg with winglet's although they may be added later.
I was suprised to learn there are 21 operator's currently operating 737 NG's for ETOP's flts. TC was happy with our program and a/c reliability both at WJ and world wide.Boeing is currently sending TC all the trend reports and data and the projected date for 180 is September.
I'm sure all of you ops and flt ops people will be on training soon or already have there is a lot of intresting info in there and future plans. Looks cool.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:46 pm

awww, you spoiled my 120 minute bet! :p

pika · Post by **pika** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:56 pm

Can you guys/gals doing your ETOPS ground school confirm or deny that the NG's will need the APU running while in the ETOPS sector?

-700 · Post by **-700** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:03 pm

True. As per TC.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:28 pm

Hmm I don’t think so, the APU has to be running from the start of the flight because of the possibility that it won’t start in flight. After the ETOP’s portion of the flight is finished then its okay to shut it down.

pika · Post by **pika** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:34 pm

That is a risk the operator will have to decide on. It has to be running through the ETOPS sector, not anytime before. If it doesn't start when you get to the ETOPS sector you have to turn around.

jetpilot · Post by **jetpilot** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:04 pm

TC request the APU to run?

what is the max altitude the apu can run on the NG? Allied Signal GTCP 131-9B is 410 right? but can you apply Power and bleed? sound strange to let the apu run for fun!

cheers

pika · Post by **pika** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:25 pm

APU runs just in case... No RAT/HMG (I think?) on an NG so you need the APU ready to pick up the electrical load if you lose one source. Bleed will not be required. Some 757's with a low voltage HMG also need to have the APU running in the ETOPS sector.

-700 · Post by **-700** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:26 pm

TC requests that the APU run for the ETOPS segment. Westjet has bettred it and said that they will run the APU from begining to end, obviously thinking the same, what if it doesn't start. Althought the APU's have incredible reliability. All this from the horses mouth.

pika · Post by **pika** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:47 pm

TC requests it because Boeing demands it.

-700 · Post by **-700** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:44 am

Boeing does not make ETOPS regs, neither can they demand anything from a regulatory body. They can have specs, limits, recommendations whatever but the decision of what needs to be done for an ETOPs flt, a Cat 2 or Cat 3 approach rests with TC.
Wityh the current reliability of the CFM's Boeing would most likely go in the other direction to show a cost savings on fuel burn.

Froggy · Post by **Froggy** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:24 pm

Pika, Listen to -700

He/She is obviously an AME for westjet as I am. We have had the training and know what's required and so on. Westjet is choosing to run the APU's from the start of the flight at least until the ETOPS portion is complete at which point it's not worth it to turn it off only to start it back up again on the ground! It only burns 250 PPH. and for gen info, APU is good for elec. to 410 and pneu. at 370 if i remember correctly. Only elec is required as windmilling should suffice for restart and one engine provides more than enough bleed for pressurizing the cabin.

RB211 · Post by **RB211** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:30 am

Couple of questions for any WJer's that care to answer:

When did WJ receive 120 min approval?

Are centre fuel tanks installed or planned to be installed?

Will all -700's be maintained according to the ETOPS maintenance program or just a portion?

Thanks in advance.

Typhoon pilot · Post by **Typhoon pilot** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:13 am

1) April 1 I believe
2) No
3) Yes

To qualify number 2, not long range tanks just the standard center install

RB211 · Post by **RB211** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:00 pm

Thanks Typhoon Pilot.

From my understanding of TP 6327E, for accelerated ETOPS approval an airline operates under 120 min authority for one year before approval greater than 138 min is granted. I gather then WJ will have 180 min approval sometime spring 2006?

-700 · Post by **-700** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:06 pm

Actually there is an accelarated method to go from 120 to 180, I can't remeber all that WJ has to do but the basics are contsant data on engine and APU data both from WJ and Boeing, as well the in flight shutdown, diversion ect.. limits are lower. WJ will have ETOPS of 180 mins this fall providing all things stay the same, I said September but I was recently told October now.
I it really interests you PM and I'll get the info.

RB211 · Post by **RB211** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:48 am

-700, get your PM.

Typhoon pilot · Post by **Typhoon pilot** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:35 pm

disregard

WJ and ETOPS

WJ and ETOPS

Apu ?