For Those of You Who Think Ridicule Has No Place

[xsbank]

The other thread is getting out of hand so here is a new one. Play nice, kiddies.

Watch this animation of the Turkish Airlines crash in Schipol and in, oh, 10 words or less, what was the cause of the death of the 20 or so (including the 3 pilots) who didn't make it?

http://link.brightcove.com/services/pla ... 3635223001

[niss]

Added gas which caused the nose to rise, so instead of forcing it down some he just cut the throttle & stalled.

[UKPilot]

I've flown over the burn patch from the crash a few times - it's incredibly eery.

Swiss Cheese model at it's finest for this incident.

Crash caused by deviation from their SOP's.

Added gas which caused the nose to rise, so instead of forcing it down some he just cut the throttle & stalled.

I think what happened is he selected TOGA which pitched the nose up so he took his hand off the thrust levers to use both on the yolk to correct the nose pitch but as the autothrust was still engaged and it thought they were landing it subsequently closed the thrust on them again.

[ktcanuck]

Failure to monitor instruments. Viz. airspeed.

[rigpiggy]

Thumb up bum, mind in neutral
only 6 words, do i get a prize

[. ._]

10 words or less, eh?

No overshoot.

There's 2.

[c_172pilot]

Total loss of situational awareness. (SA dump!)

Rule #1 of flying: Don’t let the airplane take you anywhere your mind hasn’t all ready been!

[Siddley Hawker]

Three guys sat with their thumbs up their asses and forgot this axiom: FTFA.

[YOWza]

3 pilots on board...not one was watching the store.

[xsbank]

'Nobody was flying the airplane.' All the rest of the malfunctions and grief from the systems were a red herring. 'Somebody' needs to always be flying the airplane, even if the autopilot is on. In fact, ESPECIALLY if the autopilot is on. The next gen. of aircraft will likely not need this requirement, indeed if there are any humans in the cockpit at all, but for now...

For those of you whose variations on this theme were similar, congratulations.

IMHO, the actions of these pilots were so negligent they were criminal. Had they survived they should have been punished. In the same way the guy from Keystone was pilloried, these three bozos deserve, at the very least, ridicule.

[mel gibson]

Flying an aircraft with an autothrottle
is different than a conventional aircraft.
Understanding the various modes and gothchas
takes time and the guidance of good training
and experienced mentors .
All I can say is when I was flying my first autothrottle
aircraft , we were on short final, it was common to disconnect the
autothrottle and the retard at 50 feet. I pressed TOGA instead of the
disconnect and we went for a bit of a ride upwards , then I found
the disconnects and we landed with a bit of a thump. From what I understand
is the airbus product has a few autothrottle gotchas as well, and
a few accidents have been blamed on them as well.


Just because a lot of these companies in the world
are flying modern jets , does not mean that they should be
flying them. IMNSHO

[Hedley]

I will ask this question once more:

With respect to this accident, and the Jazz overrun at YYB, and the Air France overrun at YYZ, and the recent Air India overrun ...

Why do pilots insist on continuing a really screwed-up approach?

Is going around really worse than crashing?

[ktcanuck]

Reads like they attempted to go around. The issue is simple: A fixed wing aircraft needs two things to fly; height and speed. You get an audible alert when you have run out of the former so watch your speed.

[tperry]

Deviation from SOPs.

This could have been avoided with the stabilized approach philosophy (by 500' AGL VFR or 1000' AGL IFR, the pre-landing checklist must be complete, speed must be Vref +10, and no more than 1 dot deflection of the GS or Loc) Any deviation from any of those results in an immediate go-around.

[Brantford Beech Boy]

... it was common to disconnect the
autothrottle and the retard at 50 feet...

Which seat does the retard sit in?

(sorry, couldn't resist )

BBB

[mel gibson]

No arguement from me!

"Learn from the mistakes of others, etc., etc., wear protection and do not eat yellow snow..."

Mel

[Flying Nutcracker]

Stall recovery's first rule is to disengage automation! Get rid of A/P AND A/T!!! Recovery was initiated by F/O by pushing the Thrust Levers half way up, but forgot to disengage A/T. Captain took control, A/T retarded to Idle. Captain disengaged A/T, applied FULL thrust and tried to recover, but by that time they were too low for full recovery.

Shouldn't have been in that situation in the first place, but when they ended up in the predicament, the recovery was poorly handled which to me makes for an even more sad story!

10 words or less...

LOSA, poor CRM, poor execution!

[flyinthebug]

Sadly, too little too late.

[Cougar]

No one was minding the store.

[Sheila]

I will ask this question once more:

With respect to this accident, and the Jazz overrun at YYB, and the Air France overrun at YYZ, and the recent Air India overrun ...

Why do pilots insist on continuing a really screwed-up approach?

Is going around really worse than crashing?

I saw the movie!
The Air France pilots were reacting to a bad thunderstorm along with remembering all the landing procedures, which I believe is where they made a big error. Did you hear, they didn't deploy the thruster brake things, till too late? They also didn't have a good visual, I imagine it probably makes you alittle shaky to re attempt an approach. Is it possible they were concerned about lightening, at the time?
If I recall, they also didn't have clear communication with the tower.

[hairdo]

Priorty #1: Fly the damn airplane!
Priorty #2: Everything else.

[Doc]

I will ask this question once more:

With respect to this accident, and the Jazz overrun at YYB, and the Air France overrun at YYZ, and the recent Air India overrun ...

Why do pilots insist on continuing a really screwed-up approach?

Is going around really worse than crashing?

I saw the movie!
The Air France pilots were reacting to a bad thunderstorm along with remembering all the landing procedures, which I believe is where they made a big error. Did you hear, they didn't deploy the thruster brake things, till too late? They also didn't have a good visual, I imagine it probably makes you alittle shaky to re attempt an approach. Is it possible they were concerned about lightening, at the time?
If I recall, they also didn't have clear communication with the tower.

The "thruster brake things".....I love your posts. The meds working? Guess not.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Stall recovery's first rule is to disengage automation! Get rid of A/P AND A/T!!!

Unless you are flying an EASy Falcon...then you sit back and watch the airplane save itself!

[Tim]

Stall recovery's first rule is to disengage automation! Get rid of A/P AND A/T!!!

Unless you are flying an EASy Falcon...then you sit back and watch the airplane save itself!

see thread Stick & Rudder skills lacking in bigger Jet pilots?

[bman84]

This is purely speculation, but might this accident been avoided in an Airbus under the same circumstances? Alpha-floor would have been triggered prior to a stall, causing autothrottle activation and application of TOGA thrust. Thoughts?