Training to use the radio

[Big Pistons Forever]

In the genreral section there is a thread on pet peeves which has several rather derogatory posts on the use of the radio by student pilots

My 02 cents

It is just as easy to to teach industry standard radio calls as it is to make up a bunch of FTU specific verbal diaheria. Part of the problem is new instructors do not listen to and learn from the professionals talking on the radio. It doesn't take alot of active listening to figure out what works and what doesn't and what is industry standard because everyone is doing things the same way. For example always putting yout call sign { three letters only !} at the front of a transmission when you are initiating a call to an ATC/FSS station and at the end of your transmission when replying to a transmissions from a ATC/FSS unit. I am amazed at how many instructors don't know this very standard and basic industry convention. I tell instructors to listen to Jazz, Air Canada, and Westjet to provide examples of how to talk on the radio at controlled airports and the major tier 3 operators for uncontrolled airports.

There are no bad students on the radio there are just lazy instructors. Radio work can be the hardest and most stressfull part of flight training for many students and it takes a fair amount of work and attention to inculcate good radio habits from the very beginning. This can be a very painfull exercise for the instructor but you have to correct every mistake. IMO too many intructors let mistakes slide and are complicit in the development of bad habits. The worst is to let the student acknowledge a transmission by just using the call sign even when it is obvious that they do not understand what was just said. I get my students to read back every altitude and route instruction given by ATC, This can be torture at the beginning and the tower hates it but it is surprising how fast students get better and it forces the student to really listen to the radio. Practice makes perfect and jsut answering everything with the three letter call sign does not give them any practice.

[into the blue]

The best thing to do is to stick to the standard radio telephony procedures written black on white in the AIM. TC put that material there so that everyone was following the same rules. Many professionals that I've heard on the radio have a pretty poor radio discipline, so I wouldn't advise any student to follow their example. At least, calls like this:
"Ahh...Air Canada Three-Oh-Six climbing through nine point five..." etc.

For example always putting yout call sign { three letters only !} at the front of a transmission when you are initiating a call to an ATC/FSS station and at the end of your transmission when replying to a transmissions from a ATC/FSS unit.

from AIM COM 5.8.1:
"(a) Initial contact: The manufacturer's name or the type of aircraft, followed by the last four characters of the registration.
(b) Subsequent contact: May be abbreviated to the last three characters of the registration, if this abbreviation is initiated by ATS."
Also, in all examples in the AIM, when replying to ATS, the call sign comes first, and the reply message - later.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The best thing to do is to stick to the standard radio telephony procedures written black on white in the AIM. TC put that material there so that everyone was following the same rules. Many professionals that I've heard on the radio have a pretty poor radio discipline, so I wouldn't advise any student to follow their example. At least, calls like this:
"Ahh...Air Canada Three-Oh-Six climbing through nine point five..." etc.

For example always putting yout call sign { three letters only !} at the front of a transmission when you are initiating a call to an ATC/FSS station and at the end of your transmission when replying to a transmissions from a ATC/FSS unit.

from AIM COM 5.8.1:
"(a) Initial contact:[/i] The manufacturer's name or the type of aircraft, followed by the last four characters of the registration.
(b) Subsequent contact: May be abbreviated to the last three characters of the registration, if this abbreviation is initiated by ATS."
Also, in all examples in the AIM, when replying to ATS, the call sign comes first, and the reply message - later.

So you are saying that your average Class 4 uses better radio procedures than an Air Canada pilot.....I think not

The four letters are only used on initial call. My point was the general rule is when initiating a call, that is you starting any conversation with ATC, other than the first call, you put your three letter call sign in front and when responding to a call from ATC, put it at the end. My observation is the majority of training aircraft I hear at my home (controlled) airport put their call sign at the front of every transmission. So I take this to mean that the instructors don't know or don't care ...either possibilty is not good.

[into the blue]

So you are saying that your average Class 4 uses better radio procedures than an Air Canada pilot.....I think not

No, I didn't mean it. I've never mentioned Class 4 instructors. All I wanted to say is that, in my opinion, the AIM is the best source for learning correct radio procedures. It is, after all, an official publication, not an "oh, but Joe does like that".

and when responding to a call from ATC, put it at the end. My observation is the majority of training aircraft I hear at my home (controlled) airport put their call sign at the front of every transmission.

Like I said, AIM suggests to put the call sign in front of any reply. Anyway, I think it's too petty of a subject to argue about. "Alfa Bravo Charlie, roger, turn three three zero" vs "Roger, turn three three zero, Alfa Bravo Charlie". What difference does it make?

[Hedley]

Tips for using the radio:

1) say as few words as possible
2) speak slowly and clearly
3) don't say anything confusing

#1 is disregarded by pretty well every pilot whom is love with the sound of his own voice. But a shorter transmission - which contains the same information - is objectively superior to a longer transmission, because it consumes less bandwidth and allows more total information to flow. This is important at busy airports, both controlled and uncontrolled

#2 many pilots talk far too fast, either intentionally or because their voices are two octaves above normal. Don't do that. With noisy cockpits, crappy microphones - esp when they are too far from your mouth - and weak transmitters, all you're doing is creating garbled noise and wasting bandwidth when you talk too fast. Say it once, clearly.

#3 is another common error of pilots. For example, they might say:

Podunk Traffic, Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie backtrack two seven for takeoff

Don't do that - omit the "for takeoff" because someone might hear that and think you are now taking off on runway two seven. Also, try really really hard to get rid of the use of the word "for" in your radio work, to avoid confusion with "four".

Instead, say just this:

Podunk Traffic, Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie backtrack two seven

Similarly:

Podunk Traffic, Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie five miles north inbound for a downwind for two seven

Someone might hear this:

Podunk Traffic, Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie (garbled squeal) downwind for two seven

and think you are ON downwind for two seven.

Instead, say this:

Podunk Traffic, Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie five miles north inbound two seven

Don't tell us how you're going to join the circuit, or what you had for dinner last night, or who you're going out with tonight, unless she's got a tremendous set of knockers and you're willing to give us an URL, ok?

Try really hard not to say anything that can be confusing to someone else who doesn't perfectly and clearly hear the entire transmission.

[300_hour_wonder]

+1 hedley

remember the KISS theory for radio transmissions

slow down on the radio having to say everything fast twice usually takes longer then having to say it once at a normal speed

[Shiny Side Up]

Tips for using the radio:

1) say as few words as possible
2) speak slowly and clearly
3) don't say anything confusing

The problem is that these run counter to most people's normal mode of speaking, it is the rare individual which can get across their point with as few words as possible. Part of this is human nature of course, when people normally communicate to one another the verbal message they send is tied to a host of others, especially the visual cues. When left only with the verbal medium, people feel at a loss, hence the tendancy to fill in with lots of confusing crap. Listen to anyone chat on the phone for instance - which I might add the prevalence of that mode of communication is decreasing your average person's ability to communicate efficiently.

Also one must remember that people are at their heart creatures of a herd and their instinct is not to speak out, the ability to speak out denotes being in a position of authority and responsibility of which most people are afraid of - Seinfeld cunningly notes in one of his routines that most people are afraid more of public speaking than they are of death, what?! Death is number two? This means that they have an irrational fear of speaking out and when they do, tend to parrot what the herd says, rather than an individual voice of reason. It is no mistake that most of the influential leaders of history (good or bad) were very good orators.

I witnessed something interesting on the radio in the world of uncontrolled radio chatter one day. One poor pilot for some reason couldn't remember what the phonetic word for "O" was one day, so he improvised and identified his aircraft using a non-standard OCTOBER rather than the usual OSCAR. The really curious thing was that every other pilot on the frequency decided that maybe they hadn't gotten the memo and that this lone pilot - who I might add sounded very confident in his use of the new OCTOBER - was acting correctly and they ammended themselves and also began to use OCTOBER rather than OSCAR. By the end of the day I had heard at least seven other pilots make the switch - it was in interesting demonstration of how the minds of people work - especially since it obviously must have spread for a while. I can only assume that this is how the ubiqious "Any conflicting traffic please advise" has arisen.

Regardless, despite how BPF might deem that this is a failing of instructor, they certainly have their work cut out for them. While he may extoll the virtues of large airplane pilots in this regard, I've heard some of them equally guilty of butchering the radio-waves. Maybe even more guilty as a lot of these guys don't realise how influential they are to the many listeners out there - which include some of those low down instructors who idolize what they do.

[mashowski]

Correction: I did not make any derogatory comments directed toward student pilots.
Pointing out bad radio procedures to instructors and other licensed pilots is not derogatory.
I approached the flight instructor D.N. at CFTC several times in a polite and respectful manner about his sloppy radio and circuit procedures and was told in a very rude and abrupt manner that I was wrong.
When I took up the matter with the general aviation inspectors in Calgary, I was insulted and treated in a dismissive and disrespectful manner.

" Mos Eisley spaceport: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious."
Obi-Wan Kenobi

[iflyforpie]

Podunk Traffic, Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie five miles north inbound two seven

Except I don't know your altitude. More than a few times I've heard a radio call that put the aircraft at my present position, but I didn't know where to look or go until I radioed back.

I was taught this during my CPL training. IT PAID Identification, Type, Position, Altitude, Intentions, Destination.

Now, you don't need to say them all, but for advising other traffic you need to say at a minimum Ident, Position, Altitude, Intentions.

Why all of that over and over again? Well, somebody might have just started up and not have your initial call.

Also, listen for other clues as to the type of aircraft and operation so you don't have to congest the frequency by asking. If the guy is shouting and you can hear a weedwacker in the background, it is a homebuilt, ultralight, or ragwing aircraft with a handheld radio. If it sounds like midgets are tap-dancing on the pilot's chest, helicopter. If it sounds like a 1980s video game is playing in the background, glider. A professional sounding voice with a 400Hz hum over the frequency, a large turbine aircraft.

Other than that, be clear (good examples Hedley), and expunge extraneous expressions ( ) from your transmissions (presently, currently, planning, any conflicting traffic, etc).

[Big Pistons Forever]

Like I said, AIM suggests to put the call sign in front of any reply. Anyway, I think it's too petty of a subject to argue about. "Alfa Bravo Charlie, roger, turn three three zero" vs "Roger, turn three three zero, Alfa Bravo Charlie". What difference does it make?

Simple:

So lets say you are flying along and hear " Garble Garble turn left heading three zero zero" . So was that for you or somebody else...there is no way to know.

If everybody does it in accordance with industry standards than you would hear "Garble Garble turn left three zero zero Alfa Bravo Charlie" . Since you are not ABC you would disregard the transmission.. The most likely part of any transmission to be cut off is the first part.

So same example you have responded to a transmission from ATC that was "ABC turn left heading three zero zero" with "ABC turn left heading three zero zero" only you started talking a split second before you pushed the PTT so all ATC hears is "Charlie turn left heading three zero zero" They will now have to tie up air time repeating the transmission. If you had put the call sign at the end ATC would have heard " heading three zero zero, ABC".... and no need to repeat.

Radio work is like every other part of flying, you can choose (and be taught) to do it right, or you can fudge along with doing it just good enough...personally I would like to see a higher standard in the flying training world, but part of that has to be instructors making sure thay are setting a good example....and to set a good example they have to know what the industry standards are...many IMO do not.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Who you are, Where you are, What you want/doing works for just about every transmission.

XX tower, One fifty, GABC, 10 West, 2000 ft landing with Charlie.

Note what is not in the call
- "Cessna" One fifty... everybody in the known universe will understand that a "One fifty" is in fact made by Cessna
- "I am" 10 West...... well since you are making the transmission I think it is a safe bet you are not talking about somebody else
- "inbound for" landing "at XX"..... you can't land without being inbound and since you are talking to XX tower where you are landing is obvious
- with "information" charlie.... with Charlie and with Information Charlie mean the same thing.

Now for the really hard part, the rythm and speed of the transmission. The speed should be a little slower than normal speach and there should be a very slight pause everywhere I have put a comma. This will IMO make the transmision most likely to be understood the first time.

For uncontrolled fields the transmission is the same except I recommend you repeat the location at the end of the transmission. Most traffic frequency are shared so if you hear a partial transmission (very common on busy days) but the last word is the location you will be able to disregard it if it is another airport. It is also important to add the approximate time so other traffic will be able to determine if you will affect them.

For example XX traffic, One fifty, GABC 10 West, 2000 ft, landing in 10 minuites, XX

[Airtids]

Who you are, Where you are, What you want/doing works for just about every transmission.

Agreed, with the exception that I teach new radio users to start with "Who are you talking to?".

[iflyforpie]

XX tower, One fifty, GABC, 10 West, 2000 ft landing with Charlie.

If I say '206' there will be confusion.

Some of the Cessna marketing names are better to use (not in the case of the 150 though, WTF is a Commuter/Trainer?). Skyhawk, Skylane, Stationair, Skywagon, Skymaster are all easier to say than 'ONE SEVEN(TY) TWO', 'ONE EIGHT(Y) TWO', 'CESSNA TWO ZERO SIX', 'ONE EIGHT(Y) FIVE', and 'THREE THREE SEVEN' and should be recognizable.

Also 'PPPEEEE AAAYYY TWENTY EIGHT', 'PEEEE AAAAYY THIRTY TWO', and 'PPPPEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY ELEVENTY SEVEN' are awkward and terrible ways to identify various Piper products, because their model numbers encompass so many aircraft, and other than the PA-28, not too many private pilots are sure of what they are. Just say Cherokee, Saratoga, Navajo, or Cub, etc.

[Hedley]

Podunk Traffic, Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie five miles north inbound two seven

Except I don't know your altitude

IMHO you don't need to know my altitude. We are not going to have a mid-air 5/10/20 miles away from the airport solely because of a comm failure. The purpose of the unicom frequency is NOT to separate aircraft many miles from the airport.

My brutally minimalistic radio calls are very useful when the frequency gets very busy.

When there are ten aircraft trying to make radio calls, you must pare the calls down to the bone or the radio becomes worse than useless - it becomes a distraction, and in fact may reduce the level of safety - when all you hear is a stuck mike, continuous squeal, etc. When that happens, you might as well turn it off and

LOOK OUTSIDE

Just say Cherokee, Saratoga, Navajo, or Cub, etc.

I would just say "Piper". Similarly, most people really don't care if you're a 172 or 182 or 206 or 210. Just say "Cessna" and most people will figure it out.

When I am flying the C421B, I surely do not call myself "Golden Eagle" which is the marketing name for the 421. I don't even call myself a 421. I call myself "twin cessna" because pretty well anyone understands what a twin cessna looks and flies like, even if they are not an expert on all the sub-variants of 300 and 400 series Cessnas.

[mashowski]

When there are ten aircraft trying to make radio calls, you must pare the calls down to the bone or the radio becomes worse than useless - it becomes a distraction, and in fact may reduce the level of safety - when all you hear is a stuck mike, continuous squeal, etc. When that happens, you might as well turn it off and LOOK OUTSIDE

+1 Hedley
Being distracted by the radio does create a hazard because it diverts a pilot attention from more important things.

Aviate - FLY the airplane
Navigate - LOOK where you are going
Communicate - NOT even a necessary requirement at non-MF uncontrolled aerodromes.
Are you going to risk your life and your passengers life by assuming that NORDO aircraft will not be in your airspace?

This is from the AIM:
"When operating in accordance with VFR, or in accordance with IFR but in VMC, pilots have sole
responsibility for seeing and avoiding other aircraft."
The primary method of traffic separation is via visual means at uncontrolled aerodromes, and also in Class D control zones for VFR traffic. (ATC is responsible for IFR separation only in Class D)

[Big Pistons Forever]

A big +1 to the primacy of the lookout. And do not believe everything you hear either, I once ended up going nose to nose with a guy who said he was West of the airport straight in for the active rwy 09 when in fact he was East of the airport and straight in for 27 The most dangerous place around an airport is the turn from base to final with the danger of getting smoked by some guy doing a straight in. The tendancy is for the pilot of the plane on base to be concentrating on looking towards the runway and the guy on final has tunnel vision by being focused straight ahead on the runway. I tell all my students, when operating at uncontrolled airports to make a special point of looking away from the airport and up the extended final line for traffic before making the turn to final. I learned this the hard way when I was a PPL. Just as I was about to start the turn from base to final another aircraft flying an unannounced straight in, passed directly in front of me at a range of less than 50 feet .

I do a full overhead join at every uncontrolled non FSS serviced airport I fly to. It is the best way to see other traffic and allows you to inspect the runway and approaches.

[iflyforpie]

Podunk Traffic, Cessna Alpha Bravo Charlie five miles north inbound two seven

Except I don't know your altitude

IMHO you don't need to know my altitude. We are not going to have a mid-air 5/10/20 miles away from the airport solely because of a comm failure. The purpose of the unicom frequency is NOT to separate aircraft many miles from the airport.

Five miles is not many miles from the airport. At five miles, most planes are at or descending to circuit altitude and overflying common checkpoints. Also, I will often lurk on frequency when overflying the airport at high altitude or in the general area and I won't bother making a call if the plane is at a greatly different altitude than me and the same position.

Who would be 5000 above the circuit coming in to land? Flatlander pilots who are afraid of the mountains. Glider tow planes. Jumper dumpers. Here in the rocks there are lots of choke points for traffic so the 'big empty sky' isn't as applicable.

Saying your altitude adds 1 second to your TX...

Just say Cherokee, Saratoga, Navajo, or Cub, etc.

I would just say "Piper". Similarly, most people really don't care if you're a 172 or 182 or 206 or 210. Just say "Cessna" and most people will figure it out.

When I am flying the C421B, I surely do not call myself "Golden Eagle" which is the marketing name for the 421. I don't even call myself a 421. I call myself "twin cessna" because pretty well anyone understands what a twin cessna looks and flies like, even if they are not an expert on all the sub-variants of 300 and 400 series Cessnas.

I said sometimes... just whatever reduces time, syllables, articulation, and confusion. Yes, for God's sake don't say Golden Eagle...

LOOK OUTSIDE

Plus 1 billion....

[Big Pistons Forever]

Hedley I agree you should not say "Golden Eagle", as your type in radio transmissions...... instead you should say

"Pressurized, Radar equiped, Twin Engine Cessna GOLDEN EAGLE"

If you have got it you might as well flaunt it

[Shiny Side Up]

Radio work is like every other part of flying, you can choose (and be taught) to do it right, or you can fudge along with doing it just good enough...personally I would like to see a higher standard in the flying training world, but part of that has to be instructors making sure thay are setting a good example....and to set a good example they have to know what the industry standards are...many IMO do not.

In truth, many I find do know the standard, if only quite litterally. Take a look at what RIC-21 ,the Study Guide for the Restricted Operator Certificate with Aeronautical Qualification gives for examples:

Single Station Call

When an operator wishes to establish communication with a specific station, the following items shall be transmitted in the order indicated:

1. The call sign of the station called (not more than three times, once if radio conditions are good).

2. The words "THIS IS"

3. The call sign of the station calling (not more than three times, once if radio conditions are good).

4. The frequency on which the calling station is transmitting.

5. The invitiation to reply ("OVER").

Now I know some of you may complain about a pilot making such a transmission - and the above certainly leaves a lot of leeway for individuals to take and pick how they decide to do it - it is technically correct. While Mashowski may be complaining to his local FTU that they are doing things wrong, they are in fact teaching it by the book, if maybe by the letter of it and not as much by the spirit of it. Even above if we take a look at everyone's approved way of doing things, between IFP, Hedley and BPF we have variances - a new pilot is supposed to pick through these and determine which is correct, when technically they all are. RIC-21 gives even more room for improvisation if we look under:

5.7.4 Message Handling Procedures

On subsequent calls, the words "THIS IS" and "OVER" may be omitted and, if no likelihood of interference exists, the call sign for the station being called may be abbreviated as follows:

To which of course they give an example. The point being omitting stuff for the sake of brevity is ultimately the judgement of the transmitter. Note that in the second part there is no "shall" or "must" in there.

Now that all being said, I'm not defending those who have verbal diahreha on the radio, or the few stealth pilots out there either. There is however a problem within the system in that "the standard" that everyone wishes someone else to adhere to isn't a concrete one. I'd like to steer this back here though.

but part of that has to be instructors making sure thay are setting a good example....and to set a good example they have to know what the industry standards are...many IMO do not.

I will grant that there are some bad instructors out there not teaching this well, there are also plenty of Private flyers and big jet flyers equally guilty. On the instructing side of things though I think we need to delve more into how this problem can be adressed. Its all well and good to go down to your local FTU and rail at the instructors for a while and telling them "do better training!" But in the interest of actually helping some "do it better" some points have to be brought up why this is such a tough one for many students.

The first thing to remember is that people are poor listeners, we're visual creatures and that's how we primarily learn. Monkey see, Monkey do. Note that its not Monkey hear, Monkey say. The excersise in using the radio though is done almost purely done by one person listening to the other - unless you happen to have a student who can lip-read. This puts the learner at a disadvantage. Learning to use the radio in the aeronautical world might as well be like learning a diferent language - indeed when I have laymen in the passenger seat, they often have no idea of what I'm saying to ATC or perhaps another aircraft. Despite the fact that I'm using essentially what might be considered a dialect of English. I might as well be talking Portugese for all they know what I'm saying. Needless to say the usual demonstration-performance means of teaching a student needs considerable back up to be successful.

Like learning a new language, constant practice is also requried, although using a radio is different in that you're often speaking to an unknown audience, one that often doesn't give feedback unless you happen to do it spectacularly poor. If you happen to tell someone in Mandarin that you would like to screw an egg by mistake you're more likely to get a definite learning lesson out of it. Students learning radiotelephony often get considerably less practice out of it thatn is really required - remember, your average private pilot uses his radiotelephony less than 30 hours a year during which he might be expected to make few real transmissions, fewer yet where he actually interacts with another entity on the radio.

Imagine making a fluent speaker out of 45 hours with a student - ain't going to happen, nevermind the idea that they often don't have a pure learning enviornment for it, as above, there are plenty of bad examples out there for them to listen to - It would be like trying to learn Parisian French living in Quebec city.

Did we mention that the student is also trying to learn how to fly an airplane while they're learning this new language?

I'm rambling now, so to sum up. If you're an instructor reading this, some stuff that might help you get across that message of how to talk on the radio right to not upset the pro pilots out there.

1) Ground Practice. Sounds stupid and needs a bit of imagination and participation, but sometimes it really helps. This is another thing you can use the Sim for. Personally it works wonders for IFR students especially, but it also helps new students.

2) Written homework. People learn well by stuff they see. It also helps keep them thnking about it when they're not under your watchful eye. Give them story problems, and have them do written answers. I should say that this is tough sometimes, people in general are also poor in their reading comprehension abilities, so this often helps the shy book-smart type the best.

3) Wheres and Whys. Ask them about where they should be making calls and why they should be making them. Get them thinking ahead of time.

4) Encourage them to become good listeners. This is the toughest direction to steer people, mainly because people like to talk more than they like to listen. The best learners are often the best listeners. Put brain in gear before engaging mouth. to know what gear to put it in, you have to listen first.

When I am flying the C421B, I surely do not call myself "Golden Eagle" which is the marketing name for the 421.

So if I'm cruising along in a 310 I shouldn't make the call as "Songbird Alpha Bravo Charlie"?

[Big Pistons Forever]

I firmly believe that in general instructors are not doing a very good job of teaching their student show to communicate on the radio.

This is because they:

1) oftn don't really know themselves,

2) Do not spend enough time actively teaching radio communications, and

3) Do not have a plan to get the PPL from zero to competant in logical, defined steps from start of training to PPL flight test.

I personally believe that every PGI after LP 3 should have a 2 min radio practice session. This starts with the basics and gets progressively more complicated as the course progresses. I also feel strongly that at the beginning students need canned fill in the blank scrips for each major part of flight. As they progress the scripts can be phased out. Like I said earlier practice makes perfect so I get the students to read back altitudes and routes rather than just responding with the three letter ident.
I make a big distinction between PPL and CPL training. At the CPL level I ride my students hard and will not accept any poor radio work. At the FI level well it had better be perfect because they are setting the example.

Shiny raised a good point. That is the difference between what is in the books and what is considered "standard industry practice"

Some examples of what I consider standard industry practice are as follows ( in no particular order)

1) call sign at the front of transmission for "you to ATC" and at the end for your reply to "ATC to you" transmissions

2) adjectives are generally ommited (I will, I intend, I am, I have etc etc)

3) all calls are spoken at an even pace and normal conversational volume

4) Umms and Ahhs are missing because the pilot has thought about what they want to say before they pushed the mike button

5) When changing frequencies the pilot always listens out before ransmiting on the new frequency so he/she does not step on anyone else transmisions.

6) All calls are formatted in the same order: the name and designation (tower, ground, approach, radio, tafffic etc) of the facility, your ident (first call includes all 4 letters and type, all subsequent are three letters only), where you are (physical location { the XX bridge } or distance and direction { 10 West } and what you want or are doing as appropriate in a concise way { landing, descending to two thousand, transiting the zone, taxing to 09 etc etc}

Anyone else care to expand the list ?

[767]

Anyone else care to expand the list ?

its too long

[Big Pistons Forever]

Sorry I guess I was not specific enough

Would anybody who has a clue care to expand the list.....

[ETOPS]

6) All calls are formatted in the same order: the name and designation (tower, ground, approach, radio, tafffic etc) of the facility, your ident (first call includes all 4 letters and type, all subsequent are three letters only)...

So its standard practice for pilots to initiate a 3 letter abbreviation themselves?

[Big Pistons Forever]

6) All calls are formatted in the same order: the name and designation (tower, ground, approach, radio, tafffic etc) of the facility, your ident (first call includes all 4 letters and type, all subsequent are three letters only)...

So its standard practice for pilots to initiate a 3 letter abbreviation themselves?

Yes, unless ATC specifically specifies otherwise (usually only due to another aircraft with the same call sign on the freq)

[Stan Darsh]

Wait wait wait wait. Hold up.

Anyone else care to expand the list ?

its too long

Sorry I guess I was not specific enough

Would anybody who has a clue care to expand the list.....

Yes.