mattedfred wrote:i'm sure PAG is intending to use the 3rd Dash8 for there own schedule. i was just wondering if they received a call from AC and are now looking to start flying the aircraft earlier and for AC before they use it on their own routes.
Lol, Id highly doubt it.
I'll hopefully have my shiny new Dash 8 PPC in about 2 weeks; Ive been off the last month. I would have been all over this EDITED if my time off alligned with their requirements. Im sure there's plenty of other ex-PAG pilots other than myself with plenty of Dash time and far more experience who would really love this opportunity.
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"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
Brick Head wrote:When you are on strike your contract expires. You have no contractual limits on Teir 3 flying.
I think "limits on Teir 3 flying" are part of the CPA aswell .. and that contract is still in effect, even if we're on strike. That contract will only expire if there are no services provided within a time frame.
Localizer wrote:
I think "limits on Teir 3 flying" are part of the CPA as well .. and that contract is still in effect, even if we're on strike.
I have never seen any limits on Teir 3 within the CPA. You have limits on what Jazz can get teir three to do for Jazz. But this flying is AC's, not Jazz's flying. ACPA has limits on Teir 3 which would apply since this is AC flying, but I don't think they are anywhere close.
Doesn't matter though. Pull 1500 of about 4500 pilots doing AC work off the line? Crater.
Localizer wrote:
Doesn't matter though. Pull 1500 of about 4500 pilots doing AC work off the line? Crater.
The combined AC and Jazz operation runs about 1500 flights per day. If there is a Jazz pilot strike, 800 of those daily sectors will be affected. Unlike 1997, it would appear that a respectful relationship between ACPA and ALPA will see no exceptions to the AC pilot contract in trying to mount a replacement operation. It is within AC and Jazz's prerogative to charter third parties at great expense and with no guarantee of quality of service or standard of safety. Simple volume makes the exercise futile.
moreccsplease wrote:
Yes! Because the roles might be reversed next spring perhaps.
Maybe it is time to bury the hatchet and support fellow colleagues looking to better work conditions?
How about supporting the 25% to 51 % of the active pilots that want to have the option to fly past 60...ops forgot.....You're very selective.....With our MEC...there is little change of solidarity.........Be careful what you wished for.........but are you happy now ??????
Max111, I think you meant to write 25 - 51 % of widebody captains that want the option to fly till they die. And the word is oops, not ops. You forgot the first 'o'. Maybe this is the first sign......as we age we do forget a few things now and then......cheers.
Thanks for the spell check.............Just my opinion but i believe the majority wants this....not only the senior 777 Captains........The 51% would include pilots that realize that the world has changed and this is a rights issue................Anyway be well....Max111
How about supporting the 25% to 51 % of the active pilots that want to have the option to fly past 60...ops forgot.....You're very selective.....With our MEC...there is little change of solidarity.........Be careful what you wished for.........but are you happy now ??????
Max111
Max111: I don't follow your connection between Jazz negotiations and fly past 60 at AC, care to explain it? I also am not sure where you get the numbers to support that 25-51% want the option to fly past60.
Max111 wrote:Thanks for the spell check.............Just my opinion but i believe the majority wants this....not only the senior 777 Captains........The 51% would include pilots that realize that the world has changed and this is a rights issue................Anyway be well....Max111
I see that this very question is in fact in the wawcon survey. It will be interesting to see just how many will indicate that they do indeed wish to work past 60 when they are asked the question in the privacy of their own home. If it is indeed a majority, then I am all for it. If however, it shows that the majority of the pilots do not want it, then I think that should be respected also.
Can someone tell me if the new ruling allows guys to fly (as F/O) past 65? I heard that from someone. While I have no beefs about someone going to 65, I think its absurd to think that someone would want to work past 65, or is that where the "Fly till you die" came from?
Inverted2...It is not about wants at all. It is rather about legal rhetoric. If it is deemed unethical to force someoneto honor their contract and retire at 60 then , by logic it is also unethical at 65, 70, 75 etc. Human rights knows no age limit!!! So who cares if only a few want to fly till 65, those few may be able to indeed fly till they die....and won't that be a treat.
edited. 1 time for spelling.
tailgunner wrote:Inverted2...It is not about wants at all. It is rather about legal rhetoric....DARN..those pesky laws keep getting in the way If it is deemed unethical....illegal... to force ...read FORCE...at least you got something right someone to honor their contract ...obey the law and retire at 60 then , by logic it is also unethical .....illegal...at 65, 70, 75 etc. Human rights knows no age limit!!! So who cares if only a few....a FEW .. BRAVO, !! two things right in the same paragraph, you might be actually getting the concept, there'shope for you yet ... want to fly till 65, those few may be able to indeed fly till they die....and won't that be a treat.....yes it will, you should be so luckyedited. 1 time for spelling.
Rumour has it that CR has lined up Air Creebec, Air Inuit, Flair Airlines and Nolinor to scab flying that JALP normally does for AC.
Perhaps some of the ex Air Georgian and Voyageur pilots that scabbed during the 97' strike can share their experience of how fun it was scabbing Air Ontario flying?
mattedfred wrote:Rumour has it that CR has lined up Air Creebec, Air Inuit, Flair Airlines and Nolinor to scab flying that JALP normally does for AC.
Perhaps some of the ex Air Georgian and Voyageur pilots that scabbed during the 97' strike can share their experience of how fun it was scabbing Air Ontario flying?
Nolinor, eh? And pax think that the dash is old, loud and noisy. Ran into a couple of my GGN buddies last night and they pretty much have a gun to their head, right now. "Fly where we tell you to, or you refuse to work and we fire you." The pilot's don't want to scab, heck, they're trying to get into ALPA. And you thought our management was out to lunch. And their CP, a super nice guy (as many of us here know), has no say in these matters right now. Do as the DFO says, their CP is just the messenger.
I edited my previous post as Air Georgian already has a commercial agreement with AC. Air Georgian is free to operate any AC flights while respecting any limitations that exist in CPA's or CBA's.
All one could ask is that they refuse any voluntary overtime or reassignment and operate within their AOM, COM and the CARs.
Air Georgian has approached ALPA in the past. I hope they finally decide to pursue certification this time.
Jazz ALPA has received letters of support from several pilot groups. I encourage every pilot group in Canada to consider doing the same.
I have it from two buddies at GGN, both independently, that they are already stretched to the max, timing out on flying....little to no room for any extra.
So how they might plan to take over our work, I can't see it unless they drop some of their current stuff.
Let's hope that this is all much ado about nothing....
eightzeroummmseven wrote:I don't want to do a Jazz pilot's flying for them at all. But one can't really tell the boss to stuff it when he tells you you're going to Pearson for a while. I'd like to see you guys get a decent pay cheque as much as you would. But asking people to risk their 6 figures to support you by turning down flights isn't really fair. You knew they paid poverty wages when you signed on. How is it being a scab at all? It's just operating an aircraft for those that pay me decently to do it.
Umm... They weren't paying poverty wages when I got hired on, just after 9/11, CCAA, etc.. We used to be some of the highest paid pilots in Canada...
You knew they paid poverty wages when you signed on. How is it being a scab at all? It's just operating an aircraft for those that pay me decently to do it.
Whether you are being paid decently or not I guess is a matter of your own opinion. I think it is understood that if the boss tells you to fly you fly. I won't take offence. I think the term scab is being incorrectly used, suffice to say it would be applicable to anyone flying Jazz Aircraft. Ask anyone who walked the picket line at EPA years ago and saw the company hire scabs to fly the planes for what their definition is.
I also get a kick out of people who continually use the argument that we knew what we were getting when we signed on. Well that does not apply to the many who were at Jazz during the CCAA process, or pre merger for that matter. Further to this, have you ever heard of progress? I suppose if you moved into a dump you would not think to at least try and spruce it up a little or would you be content to live as it was when you walked in? Not much different really...
So who cares if only a few want to fly till 65, those few may be able to indeed fly till they die....and won't that be a treat.
want to fly till 65, those few may be able to indeed fly till they die....and won't that be a treat.....
