More Trigger Happy Cops

[Doc]

In Kenora, Thursday night, a 40 year old intoxicated native woman, attempting to cut her(own) wrists was instructed by a lone female officer to drop the knife. She wouldn't comply, so the officer shot her twice. And, I'm sure the cops will "circle the wagons" and defend this action. The woman is alive in a Winnipeg hospital. Some folks just shouldn't be allowed to carry guns. Even some cops.

[CD]

I suppose the officer could have provided some literature instead:

SUICIDE: A Civil Right
The Layman's Guide to Suicide: The last self-help book you'll ever need (unless you mess up - again)

[CD]

Here are a few news reports on the shooting...

Police shot woman, says eyewitness

8/06/2010 1:00 AM
WINNIPEG FREE PRESS

A Kenora woman is in hospital after being shot by police after apparently lunging at a cop with a knife.

The incident happened in downtown Kenora near Hing's Chinese Restaurant around 8:30 p.m. Monday, according to witnesses.

Bruce Landon identified the woman as Helen Peru, his ex-wife.

"I was just coming from Tim Hortons and I seen all these cops," Landon said. "I came to check it out and find out it's my ex-wife."

A short time later, a woman at Landon's residence said Landon was at the hospital, and was told Peru had jumped at police officers with a knife.

"What I heard, was she lunged at the cops with some kind of knife," the woman said. "(Bruce) came here and he was crying and really upset. He's at the hospital just waiting for news."

The woman said she was told Peru was shot twice. No one knows where the woman was shot.

Calls to the Kenora OPP detachment went unanswered.

Full article here...

Police officer shoots woman wielding knife

Daily Miner and News

Ontario's Special Investigations Unit is probing the shooting of a 39-year-old woman on First Street South Monday evening.

A release issued by the Kenora OPP said a Kenora OPP officer attending a domestic incident around 8:30 p.m. near the Jubilee Church was confronted by a woman wielding a knife resulting in shots being fired.

Leon Strong, who was in an apartment on the corner of Matheson Street and McClellan Avenue, reported hearing two bangs he immediately recognized as gunshots and ran to the scene to find his aunt slumped on the sidewalk with officers standing by.

"They were just watching her," he said. "She was in a fetal position. She was bleeding and everybody (who had gathered around) was asking 'What did they shoot her for.' They could have just used their tasers."

Strong said he was told by police the woman had a knife and additional reports said she lunged at the officer.

Strong said officers were busy pushing back the crowd that gathered when they should have offered first aid.

A police report issued this morning said both on and off duty officers provided first aid at the scene before an ambulance transported the woman to the Lake of the Woods District Hospital.

The woman's name has not been released but Bruce Landon identified her to the Winnipeg Free Press as Helen Proulx, his ex-wife.

She has since been transported to the Health Sciences Centre in Winnipeg. The SIU says her condition has stabilized.

Full article here...

SIU investigation of shooting focuses on finding eye witnesses

Daily Miner and News

A woman shot by police in Kenora Monday evening is said to have stabilized in a Winnipeg hospital.

Helen Proulx, 39, was shot twice in front of the Jubilee Church area of First Street South by a lone female officer when she allegedly lunged at the OPP officer with a knife.

Family members have reported she was hit in the arm and the side, shattering her pelvis.


The province's Special Investigations Unit is currently probing the incident and spent much of Tuesday interviewing witnesses after collecting forensic evidence overnight to be transported back to Toronto for analysis.

The team of four investigators and three forensic investigators arrived in Kenora around 3 a.m. Tuesday morning.

While the team said it will leave the community this evening, it is expected to return for further investigation on the weekend.

Proulx's neighbour in the First Street South apartment block, Lois Kelly, reported she witnessed the drunken woman advance on the officer after refusing to drop the knife, which Kelly said Proulx was using unsuccessfully to cut her wrist.

The Special Investigations Unit asks that anyone with information about the shooting contact 1-800-787-8529.

Full article here...

'The officer was scared, she panicked'
No need to shoot woman: witness

Brandon Sun - ONLINE EDITION

KENORA -- Lois Kelly had the perfect vantage point for the police shooting in this community Monday night that sent a woman to hospital with two gunshot wounds.

From her second-storey apartment on First Street South, Kelly and her friends leaned out her window and watched the drama unfold on the sidewalk below.

Kelly said a female officer from the local Ontario Provincial Police detachment was trying to convince an extremely intoxicated woman to give up a knife that she was using to strike at her wrist.

The drunken woman refused to give up the knife, Kelly said, and then she advanced on the lone officer.

The officer moved backwards, stumbled once, and repeatedly demanded the woman put down her knife. Kelly said the woman made several jabbing motions with the knife as she approached the officer and then raised her arm as if to strike the officer.

"The officer was scared, she panicked," Kelly said. "You could see it on her face."

Kelly said the officer pulled out her handgun and fired two shots at the woman, who fell on her face on the sidewalk.

The 39-year-old aboriginal woman, who witnesses identified as Helen Proulx, was treated at the Kenora hospital and then later airlifted to Health Sciences Centre in Winnipeg.

A hospital spokesperson said Tuesday her condition had stabilized.

Investigation of the shooting is being conducted by Ontario's Special Investigations Unit -- an independent, civilian agency that investigates police incidents in that province where people are seriously injured or killed.

A team of four investigators and three forensic investigators flew to Kenora on Tuesday morning. The investigators spent the bulk of the day interviewing witnesses in downtown Kenora where the shooting occurred.

"We're finally making headway," SIU investigator Dan Nywening said.

Kelly said the shooting attracted a large crowd of mostly aboriginal people, who began chanting at the police officer.

"People kept repeating, 'why didn't you Taser her, why didn't you Taser her,'" Kelly said, adding she believed the shooting was unnecessary given the woman's severe drunkenness.

Witnesses said both Proulx and the officer who fired her weapon are about five-feet tall.

Kelly said Proulx is her neighbour.

The neighbourhood where the shooting occurred is described as violent and filled nightly with drunks and drug addicts who are often fighting with each other, said Pastor Frank Kowal, who ministers at a street mission, the Jubilee Church of God, near where the shooting occurred.

Gilbert Kelley, a volunteer at the Jubilee Church of God, said Proulx worked as a waitress at several Kenora restaurants over the past few years, adding she was originally from the Grassy Narrows reserve, about 90 kilometres northeast of Kenora.

The Special Investigations Unit asks that anyone with information about the shooting contact 1-800-787-8529.

Full article here...

[The Old Fogducker]

Looks like the classic "double tap" just as the training says should be done.

The only thing better would have been an SMG 3 round burst as I was taught.....but then the fully jacketed 9mm round was a little wimpy beyond 15 yards....hence the 3 shots in rapid succession.

The Old (trigger-happy) Fogducker

[Doc]

If a cop can't disarm a drunk 5 foot tall woman, armed with a dull knife, without actually shooting the woman, they should look for employment elsewhere. Perhaps, we should hire cops that are a little bigger than 5 footers? They do have batons? Do they teach any form of defence other than putting a couple of .40 S&W holes in them? The wounded woman, in this case is a fully employed member of society. Not that that should have any bearing on the incident. One must wonder if the result would have been the same, had she been white???

[Nark]

If a cop can't disarm a drunk 5 foot tall woman, armed with a dull knife, without actually shooting the woman, they should look for employment elsewhere.

You are out to lunch, or you don't value the life of the 5 foot cop.

Go down to your local prison and have a look at the "shiv's" that have been made out of tooth brushes and combs. Then ask the guards/inmates if it hurt when they they were stabbed by these "dull" objects.

[grimey]

Yea, the cop clearly should have let the woman approach more closely so that she could closely examine the edge on the knife. If you don't want to get shot, drop the weapon when instructed to. If you do want to get shot, approach and threaten the cop instead. The woman picked option 2, with predictable results. If the witness is correct, the cop should be cleared of any wrongdoing.

[AMM]

@#$! that!
This cop signed up for action and excitement and to be a hero... and they FAILED!

[looproll]

Someone coming at you with a knife making stabbing motions = they can and will kill you. It would be stupid NOT to shoot them. Those vests ain't stab proof!

[Moose47]

<<<Doc
Post subject: More Trigger Happy Cops
New postPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:33 pm
Online
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:28 pm
Posts: 6674
In Kenora, Thursday night, a 40 year old intoxicated native woman, attempting to cut her(own) wrists was instructed by a lone female officer to drop the knife. She wouldn't comply, so the officer shot her twice. And, I'm sure the cops will "circle the wagons" and defend this action. The woman is alive in a Winnipeg hospital. Some folks just shouldn't be allowed to carry guns. Even some cops.>>>

Did you prescribe the drugs you are on???? Does it say where she got shot. Perhaps the female cop did not shoot for mass and only to wound. As my old sergeant used to say "you know where you can sympathy? In the dictionary between shit and syphilis!"

Gotta run and zero in my Barrett.

[mag check]

@#$! that!
This cop signed up for action and excitement and to be a hero... and they FAILED!

No, she clearly signed up for a stable job, with good/excellent pay, and a great pension plan.
It would appear she totally panicked, and fired randomly at the woman (judging by the wounds). She is lucky that the woman was so close to her, any farther away, and she would have missed alltogether, and probably killed an innocent bystander.

[CD]

No, apparently the "victim" failed ... failed to successfully commit suicide themselves and then failed to commit suicide by cop.

Thankfully, the woman is still alive.

[Nark]

No, she clearly signed up for a stable job, with good/excellent pay, and a great pension plan.
It would appear she totally panicked, and fired randomly at the woman (judging by the wounds)...

Stop believing Hollywood shoot-out movies. When your heart is pumping, your aim goes out the window.

[AMM]

Mine doesn't.
You should practice more.

[shitdisturber]

Looks like the classic "double tap" just as the training says should be done.

The only thing better would have been an SMG 3 round burst as I was taught.....but then the fully jacketed 9mm round was a little wimpy beyond 15 yards....hence the 3 shots in rapid succession.

The Old (trigger-happy) Fogducker

Hey come on Fog, the SMG would easily punch holes in a paper target at twenty-five yards. Sadly I only ever got to shoot it at Granville Ranges but it was a hell of a lot of fun to shoot; or maybe I only think that because I did really well with it during weapons quals.

As for all you bleeding hearts that think the cop should have tased her; grow up! When someone comes at you with a knife making stabbing motions, you have no reason to think they don't intend to kill you. Keep in mind that tasers don't always work for varying reasons including the prongs not deploying properly. Had she tried to use the taser and it malfunctioned, we'd now be discussing a dead cop; or probably not because it's doubtful her death would have garnered the attention her "poor victim" is getting.

[The Old Fogducker]

SD:

My 15 yard reference was with respect to real instant, drop 'em in their tracks and leave their shoes standing there empty fire power.

The type of impact that makes them think they've been hit in the chest by a diesel locomotive.

Even if I say so myself, I was superb with the SMG, and consistently placed second in the regiment on the range. At that stage of my life, my eyes were good enough that I could see the flight of the bullet and watch it strike the target, so correction was dead simple ... just like aiming the water stream from a garden hose.

The guy that always eaked me out was my CO, and I was his RADOP. We would have made a formidable pair should we have had to lay down some rounds.

The SMG was perfect from a Radio Operator's point of view .. light, lots of rounds, fairly easy to clean after a day on the range, and once you got onto it and knew the trajectory of the round and appropriate holdover and windage corrections, you could be pretty accurate out to maybe 100 metres. Of course, by that range, you could have trapped it in a well-oiled catcher's mitt compared to the 7.62 NATO round, which just beginning to get some steam behind it at 100 metres.

I used to be unimpressed, moan and groan if I drew an FN and six mags from Tech Stores to be a section rifleman, and then in the field got reassigned to RADOP duties "on the fly" requiring carrying everything, plus the radio and spare battery(s) ... but then just how it goes isn't it?

Compared to what some of the guys carried, I still got away light.

For example, I sure never envied the 81 mm mortar crews....they were some real hard-assed humpers of metal.

The Old (draw a bead on 'em) Fogducker

[shitdisturber]

Fog it's probably just my questionable sanity showing itself again but I used to love the FN! But then again I only had to lug it and the basic stuff around on exercises during my stint on BDF. When it came down to actually shooting it for qualification, I was one of those crazy people that would volunteer to fire extra mags at the end; they hated taking unexpended rounds back to the bunker, even though it was a guarantee that it would earn me a chance to clean one that'd been fired by everybody and his dog all day long. You take the good with the bad I guess. I was always impressed with a weapon that would leave me with a bruised cheek and bruises on my elbows due to the recoil actually lifting me off the ground; firing the C-7 was so anti-climactic after that. But there again, I always enjoyed punching holes in things using things that go bang.

[The Old Fogducker]

SD:

Can't begin to estimate how many thousands of rounds I fired from the FN. Being on the Rifle Team guaranteed lots, and lots, and lots of free access ammunition.

Your story on recoil reminded my of my first time live firing the FN on the range in BMT. It was a very cold morning in the fall, and the Jr NCOs told us that we would need to turn the gas regulators down to avoid stoppages due to extra friction with cold oil, and tight parts fit due to shrinkage in the cold......made sense to us, as we'd been briefed about that during the course dealing with IAs and Stoppages.

So they gave us 10 rounds and told us to load up and place the regulator on zero ... tee hee. We should have suspected something was up, because for the first time, all the Jr NCOs were smiling.

Well when you touched off a round, that thing felt like a donkey had just kicked you a glancing blow off your face that landed squarely on your shoulder. It was enough to make your eyes water.... and I'm not kidding. The spotter in the butts held up the pointer indicating where the round had struck ... high and right. Corporal says "Hold it down, really tight and fire again." Well this time, I had a death grip on the forestock, pulled the butt into my shoulder and leaned into it with all my effort with my cheek ... BLAM! This time it was like I'd been hit in the face by a truck ... holy crap, what kind of weapon was this?

I fired off the remaining rounds and cleared the weapon....feeling pretty sheepish, because that rifle had kicked the snot out of me like nothing I'd ever fired before and I was intimidated.

Then the Sgt called us all over and asked how we liked firing the FN with the gas regulator in the grenade launcher position and that it was a joke... we all groaned, he then allowed us to start firing at a regulator setting around five or six, and it seemed like we were firing pellet guns after that 10 rounds on zero!

The next day, I had a hell of a bruised cheek and almost a black eye, my shoulder was mincemeat.

Thanks for the memories SD.

The Old (bruised cheeked) Fogducker

[shitdisturber]

Fog I only ever made that mistake once during basic at the twenty-five yard range before we went to Granville; I couldn't figure out why it was only firing single shots and was kicking like a constipated mule. Good times.

[ragbagflyer]

SD:
Of course, by that range, you could have trapped it in a well-oiled catcher's mitt compared to the 7.62 NATO round, which just beginning to get some steam behind it at 100 metres.
Fogducker

I didn't know the 7.62 round was rocket powered!

[The Old Fogducker]

Never seen a vapour trail behind a round under the right conditions of temperature and dewpoint?

[rigpiggy]

I'm sure that you are just trolling, but any rifle bullet is in a negative acceleration mode as soon as it leaves the muzzle. most rifle sight line are 1-2" below bore, and are angles such that the bullet will intersect line of sight between 25-75 yards, and will reintersect the LOS on the zero ie 100m-300m. the 7.62 nato uses a 147 gr bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2680fps, with a 200 m zero it will normally be about 2 " high at 100 yards, and 8 inches low at 300. velocity is about 2450 at 100m and 2300 at 200m. BTW I owned an FN L1a1 before they restricted it and used it for moose hunting with a 5 rd. mag. I wish I hadn't sold it.

[The Old Fogducker]

No troll rigpiggy, just a little over exaggeration ... yes, I realize it is slowing from the moment it leaves the barrel.

Good on you for having owned one. I considered it when some ex Indian Army ones became available, but could also see the gun lobbists causing an unwarranted kerfuffle over such weapons, so couldn't see putting a good amount of hard earned money at risk if the resale market was going to be evaporated to placate a bunch of wooses for the purposes of some scumbag politician to obtain a few hundred votes.

OFD