Porter groundschools?

[It_doesnt_matter]

Anybody know what Porters plans are for the summer?

I heard they anounced that they were going to be running some more g/s's over the summer but havent heard much since, can anyone provide any info on what the latest is.

Thanks.

[Beach 200]

Last I heard, they got cancelled due to the IPO being cancelled.

[~Hollywood~]

Anyone know if interviews are still taking place, maybe starting a pool similar to WJ??

[wordstwice]

I would interpret that as a positive message.

Porter ground schools are in limbo right now only because of aircraft delivery dates. Typically a ground school will be held 3 months before a delivery and since there aren't any deliveries in the immediate future, there are no GS's either.

That being said, there will be more airplanes coming and a lot more hiring at Porter so if you have interviewed and have been put into a holding pattern or have heard nothing at all.......hang in there.

[propsynch]

Porter ground schools are in limbo right now only because of aircraft delivery dates. Typically a ground school will be held 3 months before a delivery and since there aren't any deliveries in the immediate future, there are no GS's either.

.

Call me crazy but I have a couple of friends flying there. From what I hear they have been shamefully undercrewed for well over a year. Now they are into min rest pairings, scheduled overtime blocks in excess of 90+ flight hours, and non-stop drafts on SDO's. (SDO because they can't guarantee days off). I also hear that if pilots try and refuse a draft on a SDO they are told that is grounds for dismissal!

If this is the case; then why do they have to wait for more aircraft to schedule Groundschools? It surely couldn't be because Bombardier pays for training the crews with each aircraft purchase could it? I would think the $23K bond would be enough. Apparently if Porter has to pay for training pilots they opt not to, and just stick the existing, bonded crews with picking up the slack. Doesn't sound right to me. If my info is wrong then I apologize, but I have heard this from at least 3 Capts and more than one FO and their stories are fairly similar.

[Samson]

Don't forget that the laws limiting duty times for flight crew in this country are very weak. Before signing that huge bond please try to talk to a few current pilots about the time on duty they are putting in.

A cockpit filled with two exhausted pilots is not an enjoyable place to be. It's not very safe either.

[wordstwice]

Propsync,

What you write isn't far from the truth, every month I'm frustrated and exhausted at my schedule at Porter as well as always trying to avoid being called in on my days off with no choice but to say yes.

However, you question is for the management at porter, not for us regular working folk. I was just posting what I knew about possible upcoming GS's.

[propsynch]

Wordstwice:

I honestly apologize if I offended you. That wasn't my intention. I just quoted your posting, as what you put was factual about not hiring until they buy new planes. I was not thinking for a minute that you were supporting mgmt.

And if what my friends there tell me and you just confirmed is true; then I feel bad for you. I think that is totally wrong. It is a safety issue. And hey, at my company if we call fatigue, that is the end of it, no questions asked. So remember, just fly safe and rested. Fatigue can be a killer. Call fatigue instead of dodging crew sked. If you get flack over it, then file an SMS. I assume you must have a decent sms reporting procedure. If your complaint is valid then it's supposed to be non-punative.

Fly safe man and hopefully it improves there. Although from what my friends say that isn't happening anytime soon. I hear that the teal team out here is doing a lot of hiring over the next year, and big red is apparently starting up again along with ACJ. With that kind of movement, you and hopefully my friends will have some much better options in the near future.

Fly Safe!!

[Valhalla]

Hey Propsynch,

I have 2 friends who told me that all the flight attendants at WestJet are fat. I hope for your sake Jazz buys your company and sets up a union.

How many anti-Porter post (under different names) does this make for you??

[Jean-Pierre]

Damn, I had high hopes for Porter. Newer planes, no union bs, no YYZ bs. Now I've heard several stories of miserable pilots wishing they had stayed up north. Getting worked to the bone. Intentionally trying to get fired to get out of their bond etc. At hotels I see Porter pilots on layover that bring wife and baby with him. Presumably this was their quality time together. I felt terrible for them. Jazz is going the same way avoiding hiring new staff and over working the current people.

[Valhalla]

Back to the original question - one ground school in August (for sure) and more coming later this year (probably).

And in case you're curious, the scheduled Captain block for August will be 82-87 hours. As a regular line Captain, I got 17 days off in July with a full block. I did work 2 days of overtime so far this month for which I get paid enough extra that it's worth doing.

[airliner]

Val.
You hit it on the head.
I had a good chuckle after that one.
There is also a rummer that Mr. D is going to camperize the Q's to save on hotels, and the F/O dumps the shitter.

[stickontheice]

Hey Propsynch,

I have 2 friends who told me that all the flight attendants at WestJet are fat. I hope for your sake Jazz buys your company and sets up a union.

How many anti-Porter post (under different names) does this make for you??

After many layovers in BGI and CUN this winter I can tell you that isn't true! Now we're going to have long MBJ layovers too! Sometimes I have to pinch myself to see if I'm dreaming. Love WJ and our FA's too!

[Valhalla]

After many layovers in BGI and CUN this winter I can tell you that isn't true!

Yes, that was the point...

P.S. I like Westjet too! Fantastic company. I do not, however, like Westjet pilots who complain on a public forum about my working conditions at Porter. Kinda' unprofessional, don't you think?

[propsynch]

You know what. I'm outta this. I just removed it. Good night everyone. If the PD guys are happy then great, and if not, hiring is going to ramp up in the next year. And I am not a WJ employee. Just have a lot of happy friends there.

[Valhalla]

I really don't get your anger propsynch. Let it go man. You're clearly in a better place now.

[airliner]

SNYCHIE
Easy big shooter.
You seem to be one of those guys at a party that will tell everyone about you and your job. Then continue to tell everyone how their place of employment isn't quite up to snuff with your. I hope it raises your self-esteem.

I work at Porter as well and just recently started. I assure you that I'm not just out of flight school, and have been around the block a bit.
Porter is a great gig, and you do get around 15 days off a month, The TAKE HOME PAY is greater on the bottom rungs then most. Yes there is room for improvement and it will come. I am home almost every night, and have control on where I want to go.

Lastly koolaid come on. Its more of a tainted scotch, or at the least just steamwistle

[Jean-Pierre]

Propsync you are dead on. Valhalla is that guy at the party. Senior Captain? Maybe but I always thought he was management himself trying to recruit pilots. All Valhalla posts should have a disclaimer "Results not typical". Maybe this argument is pointless though. Not being able to afford to hire new pilots is a big red flag. How many years can a company last without being profitable?

[altiplano]

-

[canuckjetsetter]

propsynch:

While this conversation apparently seemed to start between you and Val, I feel I must voice my opinion after your last comments as to be quite honest, they seem less than factual regardless of what you may think.

First off, let me start by saying I was a proud member of the teal team for 7 years (I left to start my own business) and will always be a strong support of WS. That being said, I have flown PD, know people who work at PD, and have the utmost respect for their employees and the vision they have. I wish them all the best and will continue to give them my business when I need to get between their city pairs (I have a soft spot for Steam Whistle )

Now that I hope I have ensured no favoritism to either side, back to the topic.

I've also looked back at your posting history and I have no choice but to assume that you are a very high senority number. Probably Class 1 - 5 if I had to guess. That would explain you defending mgmt and that fact that you had 17 days off. I bet the average pilot does not have that schedule or luxury in your company!! In fact based on my friends I guarantee it.

There is absolutely no factual information here whatsoever. First off, he is not necessarily defending management - he is doing what most respectable employees of a company do - stand up and support their peers, their company and themselves. I am not too sure what involvement you have in the industry, but most airlines do operate on a seniority basis and professionals (whom each pilot at PD is) understand this from the day they get their PPL. If Val has been there from the beginning then guess what - he deserves to be rewarded the pairings he requests.

And you "only had to work a couple of days OT last month" and you were compensated. Bully for you. Why do you have to work any at all?

He never said he had to work OT - he chose to work it. You have no idea what the circumstances behind him or anyone else being called in for OT are.

Were you well rested?

Are you implying a potential safety risk? That's quite low if you are. I for one would never question a pilot whether or not he/she were rested before operating a flight knowing that they would NEVER agree to operate if fatigued. With SMS firmly in place within Canada, no pilot should feel threatened by management to call fatigue and not operate the flight.

Nope, instead, it is the old, we need you, because we are to cheap to hire the proper compliment. You are working or be fiired. BTW you have the highest employee dismissal I think in Canada for sure.

First off, PD has just completed the first phase of growth going from 0-20 aircraft in less than 4 years. With that growth in any airline comes growing pains and at some points, some staffing shortages. Again, however, you have no idea why O.T. is being required - sick-off's, charter ops, extra segments - the list goes on. You have absolutely no facts to back your comments regarding highest dismissal rate as no airline makes that public knowledge.

My comments were all true.

I can't find 1 comment you have made in this post true. In an effort to keep this public forum a place where professionals can discuss ACTUAL aviation topics, I would appreciate if you could stop slamming PD with empty "truths" only fueled by your friends (which in this business is called pilot rumors and hold little to no validation).

I'm going to stop now as the more I type the more I seem to appreciate the fact you no little about airline flight ops (both technically and commercially) and all your banter is coming from "friends" and by no experience of your own.

Val- apologies for hijacking your defense - just needed to vent All the best to you boys on the island!

[double-j]

I am kinda embarrassed to be a westjetter right about now..



jj

[ng78]

Back to the original question - one ground school in August (for sure) and more coming later this year (probably).

More like a ground school in September and likely one or two more after that as well. More news should be coming soon.

[airliner]

Steam Whistle anyone?

[quickflight]

Just to take away any doubt. I am in the bottom quarter of the seniority list here at PD. And get easily the days off that I bid, and some decent pairings. In June I had 15 days off 15 days on, of which 3 or 4 were really short days. This month I am off for 17. I would like to be able to pick up some overtime but can't get it, let alone be called in on an SDO. Love the conditions most days, there is always room for improvement, but it's nice too know that management will listen if you have a concern. I am not new to this industry, and hate the sugary taste of cool aid, it makes the beer taste weird.

[Valhalla]

Val- apologies for hijacking your defense - just needed to vent All the best to you boys on the island!

Thank you kindly for coming to my defence! I wasn't planning on responding since this discussion originally about Porter ground schools, and then for some reason schedules, shouldn't be about me personally.

How many years can a company last without being profitable?

Time will tell...