Report Out on PC Goose Crash Out of Hardy

[Ogee]

Just Out In the Sun http://www.vancouversun.com/float+plane ... story.html

[iflyforpie]

TSB report:

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 8p0241.asp

[HS-748 2A]

he had accumulated 3998 hours of flight time

About as close to 4K as you could get..

[Widow]

The father of a 36-year-old pilot who died in an August, 2008, plane crash on Vancouver Island is unconvinced by the air investigation report on the accident released Wednesday

“There are several issues that we still have got to resolve for ourselves with the transport safety board,” said Steve Lawrence, father of Simon Lawrence.

The Grumman G-21A Goose plane, bound from the east coast of Vancouver Island for the Interfor logging camp at Chamiss Bay, with six Seaspan International Ltd. employees crashed at 7 a.m. on Aug. 3, 2008.

Contrary to early speculation of engine failure, the seven-page report by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada cited aerodynamic stalling as the pilot tried to clear thick cloud cover as the cause. A witness said the plane hit trees before the pilot could bring it back under control.

“It had an aerodynamic stall,” said Bill Yearwood, regional manager of air investigations for the Transportation Safety Board. “It is evident from witness information that the pilot ran out of clearance, collided with a tree, and the subsequent accident occurred.”

The Pacific Coastal Airlines flight – commissioned to fly from Port Hardy to Chamiss Bay – crashed into the treetops near Alice Lake on the island's west coast. The TSB made its finding of aerodynamic stalling based primarily on witness statements and burned wreckage.

“We don't have a complete picture of the crash,” Mr. Yearwood said. “Our investigation focused on the weather, the route and the performance of the aircraft and the pilot's actions to deal with the weather and the route and the aircraft.”

The pilot's father said that does not make sense.

“Simon was an excellent pilot,” Mr. Lawrence said. “He was brilliant. For this to come out that the plane went into a stall … it doesn't quite add up at all. An experienced pilot like Simon wouldn't have got himself into a jam like that.

“What I would like to see is more accurate investigating of accidents.”

Investigations for a November, 2008, plane crash involving another Grumman Goose owned by Pacific Coastal Airlines are continuing. The plane, carrying a team of Plutonic Power Corp. workers, crashed on Thormanby Island and killed seven people.

Original here: Globe and Mail

[212wrench]

An experienced pilot like Simon wouldn't have got himself into a jam like that.

You would like to think that, but they do.

[pip140]

If you read the report through and through, it doesn't make sense that you would try to climb over a cloud when you didn't need to. Put yourself in that position. There is more to this "story" than TSB has put out.

[modi13]

“Simon was an excellent pilot,” Mr. Lawrence said. “He was brilliant. For this to come out that the plane went into a stall … it doesn't quite add up at all. An experienced pilot like Simon wouldn't have got himself into a jam like that.

“What I would like to see is more accurate investigating of accidents.”

He doesn't want to admit that it was pilot error, so he's blaming the TSB?

[Mihai]

not IFR rated... i gues it's easy to lose track of speed in a climb when all you see are clouds. sad accident

[iflyforpie]

If you read the report through and through, it doesn't make sense that you would try to climb over a cloud when you didn't need to. Put yourself in that position. There is more to this "story" than TSB has put out.

Why not? I've done it tons of times. Take a more direct course, get out of .. running. Those are at least two reasons that make perfect sense depending on the situation. Anybody who flies professionally in BC should know how to safely clear high obstacles (mountains) and maintain attitude without a level horizon.

But it is easy to get suckered in too. Clouds are always moving, they have no surface texture, they have no sharply defined edges. You get going up a cloud 'valley' and there is no way you can tell how narrow it is if you need to turn around, so you plug ahead and hope you make it over the top.

I'm saying this as much to myself as anybody here; always make sure you have a way out...

[Hawkerflyer]

He doesn't want to admit that it was pilot error, so he's blaming the TSB?

You are an idiot. The father lost his son. Give the guy a break.

[modi13]

He doesn't want to admit that it was pilot error, so he's blaming the TSB?

You are an idiot. The father lost his son. Give the guy a break.

Thank you for your very respectful opinion, moron. I was referring to this: “What I would like to see is more accurate investigating of accidents.” The TSB found the cause to be pilot error, but obviously that means that the TSB isn't doing their job correctly.

[crazy_aviator]

When a polish traveller gets stunned to Death at the YVR airport,,,the cops are all buddy buddy and sweep it under the carpet and lie and deceive and find fault with everyone and everything else ,,,,WHY would you think it be any different with the pilot fraternity ???

[Hawkerflyer]

He doesn't want to admit that it was pilot error, so he's blaming the TSB?

You are an idiot. The father lost his son. Give the guy a break.

Thank you for your very respectful opinion, moron. I was referring to this: “What I would like to see is more accurate investigating of accidents.” The TSB found the cause to be pilot error, but obviously that means that the TSB isn't doing their job correctly.

I guess you don't have kids nor experienced a loss of that magnitude and I hope you never do. Put yourself in the fathers position and it would be damn near impossible to accept the fact that his son could make such a mistake. I'm sure the TSB is correct but it does not make it easier for the family to understand why and how this could happen. Its people like you on AvCanada who miss the real issue and post a stupid thing like "so he's blaming the TSB"

[Ogee]

When a polish traveller gets stunned to Death at the YVR airport,,,the cops are all buddy buddy and sweep it under the carpet and lie and deceive and find fault with everyone and everything else ,,,,WHY would you think it be any different with the pilot fraternity ???

It is an established feature of the police in our society, certainly in American society, that the police will lie for and cover up for each other. Even the police don't deny it. It's just a fact of life and the way power works in North American societies. The Thin Blue Line and all of that stuff.

Pilots do not lie for each other. Very few other professions do either. It's pretty well unique to the police.

Not that I'm saying you're crazy.

[stallfortime]

i'm new at this site, and am not a pilot, altho' i do a lot of flight simming, and have a grasp of many issues about flight characteristics.
But it seems a most important issue, that always leads to woe, is a refusal to deal with TIME. A seemingly invisible component that will always throw a wrench into things if passed over. When i look back to ANY situation in life where things got crucial, i had always refused to give myself time to do something. It is sometimes called ' being in a rush'.
Whether it has been getting in and out of relationships, driving a car, even doing a legit landing on a flight sim, 'unavoidable' accidents have always followed an attitude that i didn't have enough time to do it right. Whether it's getting out of weather, or tying ones shoe laces, TIME will always rear its ugly butt... if ignored...

[Castorero]

Stallfortime...

What, are you talking about?

[stallfortime]

... that a failure to give one's self time for a needed task is a common root of pilot error. It seems established that pilot error played the starring rôle in this instance, and one wonders how the pilot found short-cuts, that were dangerous, as necessary to carry out his mission. If he was well enough acquainted with ifr flights and the usual terrain of the direct route, then easily he should have computed the needed altitude before a rash nose up in a seaplane.

So, indeed, what fantastic precept concerning available time had interceded, in his mind, enough to to waive possible outcomes...

[Ogee]

So, indeed, what fantastic precept concerning available time had interceded, in his mind, enough to to waive possible outcomes...

The definition of a gentleman has been said to be "A man who can play the accordian, but doesn't".

I think we can modify that to say "A man who can write sentences like the quote above, but doesn't").

Stallfortime, add this to your flight sim checklist before you post on here again: Head - Removed from bum.

If you've been reading this place for a long time, I think you'll have found that real pilots on here don't try and jack up their self esteem by running their gobs about our dead brothers and sisters who can't defend themselves. We know the story, we take whatever lessons we think may be learned from it and we move on. That's life for us, we don't click a mouse and start over again.

You seem to like to write fancy stuff. Perhaps a career as an aviation journalist is in your future.

[stallfortime]

... your presumably comfy niche at this forum obviously precludes you from being accused of ad hominum gouges,(neatly under an unassailable aegis/presumption that i was attacking the pilot in question), making you a white knight, whereas i was simply besmirching what i suspect to be the cause behind most, if not all, pilot error, not the poor demised pilot in retrospect. So what if i know how to say what i mean, and you pronounce it as pretentiously floral, (and perhaps you didn't get it)... flame away buddy, i stick to my premise regarding TIME, and that it should be taught; that no rush in this particular milieu can be sanctioned. The PILOT took others with him, not an 'Act of God', or weather, or unTIME-ly trees.

My main thrust is to stop repeating history. Isn't that the point of this venue. To understand the cause and effect.

There are medical issues that hinder me from the sainthood of being a 'real pilot',
but note that i went to the trouble to inform you from the get go that i am an outsider looking in. (And i guess i knew from the get go that it would sucker some chaps in)...

[Ogee]

... your presumably comfy niche at this forum obviously precludes you from being accused of ad hominum gouges,(neatly under an unassailable aegis/presumption that i was attacking the pilot in question), making you a white knight, whereas i was simply besmirching what i suspect to be the cause behind most, if not all, pilot error, not the poor demised pilot in retrospect. So what if i know how to say what i mean, and you pronounce it as pretentiously floral, (and perhaps you didn't get it)... flame away buddy, i stick to my premise regarding TIME, and that it should be taught; that no rush in this particular milieu can be sanctioned. The PILOT took others with him, not an 'Act of God', or weather, or unTIME-ly trees.

My main thrust is to stop repeating history. Isn't that the point of this venue. To understand the cause and effect.

There are medical issues that hinder me from the sainthood of being a 'real pilot',
but note that i went to the trouble to inform you from the get go that i am an outsider looking in. (And i guess i knew from the get go that it would sucker some chaps in)...

@#$! off.

[cdnpilot77]

... your presumably comfy niche at this forum obviously precludes you from being accused of ad hominum gouges,(neatly under an unassailable aegis/presumption that i was attacking the pilot in question), making you a white knight, whereas i was simply besmirching what i suspect to be the cause behind most, if not all, pilot error, not the poor demised pilot in retrospect. So what if i know how to say what i mean, and you pronounce it as pretentiously floral, (and perhaps you didn't get it)... flame away buddy, i stick to my premise regarding TIME, and that it should be taught; that no rush in this particular milieu can be sanctioned. The PILOT took others with him, not an 'Act of God', or weather, or unTIME-ly trees.

My main thrust is to stop repeating history. Isn't that the point of this venue. To understand the cause and effect.

There are medical issues that hinder me from the sainthood of being a 'real pilot',
but note that i went to the trouble to inform you from the get go that i am an outsider looking in. (And i guess i knew from the get go that it would sucker some chaps in)...

besmirching, milieu, pretentiously floral, aegis....wow, someone learned the thesaurus function on MS Word today!

[stallfortime]

... flame away. It actually limns you, not me. Does your comment, insnidentally, m,ean you had to go to a dictionary to presume that i did?

as i said, keep on flamin', the best for militatin' your 'logic'...

[Tiny Voices]

Well there you have it. You boys at NASA go ahead and put down your pens. No need for further study into pilot error accidents. They happen because pilots run out of time. Well done sir! You're a goddamn genius Gump!!

[Ogee]

... flame away. It actually limns you, not me. Does your comment, insnidentally, m,ean you had to go to a dictionary to presume that i did?

as i said, keep on flamin', the best for militatin' your 'logic'...

You may want to ask for a reexamination of your ineligibility due to a medical problem. Stupidity isn't a medical problem that disqualifies you. Sometimes it can create the illusion of mental illness, and that can. In the meantime, work on those approaches down to limns.

You had nothing better to do than come on here on Canada Day and make a horse's ass of yourself, and then put out some kind of gibberish about how you've sucked people in and how people who point out that you're a horse's ass are "flaming" you?

In the meantime, I refer you to my short comment a few posts above.

[stallfortime]

see wadda mean, then, vern...