so? is that it?

[genetic jack hammer]

The new reserve rules allow the company to run leaner? Is this gonna be another case of WDO'ing almost everyday? I got called on Sunday morning, day two of four off, at 4:44 a.m. asking if I was interested in one of three pairings for a WDO...and i've never put myself on the WDO list.

Weren't WDO's designed to help on irrop days or when shit hits the fan, whichever happened first?

End of rant.

[mattedfred]

Folks,

Our current CA and our current TA do not have any language that requires the Company to maintain a minimum reserve level. The Company has stated that they wish to reduce reserve levels to 8%. We are currently above that level.

Why not put your name on the Do Not Call List and avoid any calls at all?

If I recall the Company can call everyone on the Call List then those that are not on the Call or Do Not Call List.

IOW, get used to this as the new norm.

[mbav8r]

If you don't want to be called, you have to list yourself with crewsked as DO NOT CALL. The reason, explained to me was, they have to call everyone in order of seniority. I asked why they had called me 4 times in about a 36 hour period, even though after the first call I explained I was home and not at my base. They said they have to call everyone in order of seniority because if they didn't call me and I found out someone junior to me was called and worked I could grieve it and get paid anyway. The only way to aviod this, is to give crewsked a waiver, so to speak. List yourself as do not call.

[CL30]

I was PFO'd two days after my sim eval even though I know it went very well. I've done enough rides to know that I was very close to flight test standards without any previous experience with this aircraft or simulator.

Some other guys are saying the same. I have two ATPL's, 4900 TT, 2100 JET, 3900 PIC, and three jet types and I'm in my early 30's. If I am not what Jazz is looking for, likely not going to apply again and waste my time. Besides, telemarketers make more than 3 - 4 year Jazz pilots in CYYZ.

Luckily after feeling like a complete useless person after the PFO I got into a Railway opening and made the initial cut on the last day it was posted. After 15 years in aviation, I am tired of being treated like I don't have anything to offer. I've been laid off for a few months, I have two young children and a wife to support. The railway pays for all of your training, sends you to school and you make more than junior Captains do at Jazz. Something is wrong with this industry. I was recalled by my former employer last week at a pay rate $13,000 below when I started 2 years ago. The job was taken within a day or two after I told them I couldn't take the pay cut AND sign a two year bond. If I was a prostitute or illegal alien this indentured servant practice would be illegal. Why do we put up with this crap? I do know that Jazz doesn't require bonds however the pay is what drives most away in the first two years, don't blame pilots who have families to feed and loans to pay off.

All of the people I met during the interview were great, I was very excited to come aboard even though it was going to be very tight financially for the first 5 years. If Jazz doesn't want quality employees to replace the retirees over the next few years that's one thing, you attract people based on how you treat them. We prayed this would get me back to work, however it seems like everything worked out in the end.

Thanks,

[mbav8r]

CL30, Glad to hear things worked out, I considered the rails at one point, it was a joke around the house because I fly, I have driven long haul trucks, and thought it would be fun to drive a train. Do they hire direct entry Train engineers or do you have to work your way up?
Also, in the sim, they're not looking to see if you can pass a ride, they are looking at your CRM and personality. If a person has alot of single pilot time they would likely be lacking in the CRM department. Not saying this is your case but merely stating it's not about your technique. I didn't feel like my sim went well, but still got a call.

[CL30]

This was within the past two weeks, it seems like the situation is tied with the developments on the hiring recently as there are 3 - 4 other guys with similar experience that all got the PFO around the same time. Doesn't mean that I passed or failed and got rejected but it seems like something changed in the last two weeks based on some of the posts here.

I don't think CRM is an issue however flying corporate and airlne are two different styles when you have the same guy beside you for two years.

You start as a conductor trainee in the railway before you can become an engineer. Its different because the conductor is reponsible for the safe operation and ensuring the engineer does the right thing when it comes to signals and operations. The engineer drives and makes sure the conductor does everything safely but has less grunt work. Its a different dynamic than flying were the PIC is responsible for most of the operation.

Upgrades are based on seniority. Luckily with high fuel prices the railways are a growth industry. Once you have your foot in the door there are many possiblitiies for promotion and higher pay. With the amount of retirements, its a good time to get in. Excited about it as is very similar in scope to flying but I would rather fly if there was a chance to get back to work, just nothing out there right now.

[Franky Jr]

I guess if the company wants to hassle pilots to come in and do a WDO at time and a half instead of hiring a newbie at 36K then that's their business.

And can we confirm anyone was actually called for the July 19 GS, (I struggle to believe they did)

[loandfast]

CL30,
I totaly agree with you.There something really wrong about this business. There is no respect for what a good worker can offer anymore.
You are lucky if you can talk to any human being during a job search and you feel like a begger all the time, not a professional.
I just decided today I am done with it. After 16 years 4000 hrs + and ATPL, Jazz just pushed me away...Back to school.
Aviation is highly regulated, at the end of the day PIC is accountable for everything, you can loose your medical and end up in front of nothing in no time, can someone name another job like that wher you'll be paid 36K a year, if you are lucky.

Good luck to everybody. Keep the faith...Il lost it.

[scopiton]

but it seems like something changed in the last two weeks based on some of the posts here.

could you elaborate ?
glad for you you found a good option besides aviation

[CL30]

Quote:
but it seems like something changed in the last two weeks based on some of the posts here.

could you elaborate ?
glad for you you found a good option besides aviation

but it seems like something changed in the last two weeks based on some of the posts here.

could you elaborate ?
glad for you you found a good option besides aviation

I've been in the game enough to see when things don't add up.

(1) There were a few posts regarding the new contract where possibly only 3 new aircraft are coming aboard instead of 6 for the 757's. Somebody also commented that this would potentially reduce the ground school requirements to one class instead of 4.

(2) Some guys were already in the pool and had sim evals two weeks prior to when I went in. I was called just a few days after the job was posted. I was told about the prior interviews by the CP present at the initial interview. My contact who is well placed in the training department mentioned that if they only needed 5 guys, the 6th who went that day was SOL if the previous guys checked out OK. If the requirement was met for hiring out of the inititial group recalled - then anybody after them would not be offered anything.

(3) There has been some discussion of guys being displaced already from the RJ. It doesn't make sense to hire new guys when you have no place for the displaced people due to the bids not being in place yet for the new aircraft.

(4) Jazz is in the middle of negotiations and then decides to hire 45. Its almost like we were used as a pawn to offset or make concessions.

I am not saying this against anybody at Jazz as everyone I met was great. I really wished things worked out for me because I think I am a great fit. What I am saying that not everything is adding up based on my experience, the situation, and knowledge of some other people who went to same stage and the game ended at the same time.

I honestly know based on my experience that my sim eval went OK and some feedback that I can't mention. I just don't see why Jazz would continue the interview process and create a pool when (costs money) there is enough to fill immediate postions for the next few months and they would have to repeat the process.

My insight, unless the person who makes the decisions posts, we'll never know for sure.

[El Comat]

I can comment on (1) and (3) above.

(1) There are 6 757s coming online this fall/winter, with 1 spare as a backup. Ground schools start at the end of August, or so a CP told me the other day. This fleet can grow to 11 at Thomas Cook's discretion over the duration of the contract.

(3) Let's say in peak season (now), we need 200 RJ crews to fill the CPA flying from AC. In the low season (winter), we may only need 160. This frees up 40 crews for the Thomas Cook work in the winter, and they will return to the RJ in the peak season. Hence the net result of zero vacancies/reductions. If the Thomas Cook flying gets increased in following years, or goes year-round, then we would definitely have to hire.

I'm sorry to hear about those of you left hanging in the hiring process. I went through a very similar ordeal 6 years ago with the Air Force (two days away from giving them ~9 years of my life!). Believe it or not, even the gov't doesn't know how many people they need to hire . I got some closure when they called back a year and a half later offering me a start date...at least I know the problem wasn't on my end!

EC

[teacher]

Not to defend this recent hiring SNAFU but AC is the one that gives Jazz the numbers. Like the last time this happened ACs winter schedule and crew requirements did not match what had previously been estimated so groundschools were canceled. The is an obvious issue when you're tied to another company making decisions for you, Thomas Cook flying aside.

[heavyjet]

well for those who went through the interview process,only time will tell.
I remember those days...................

Heavyjet

[Bede]

CL30,

Unfortunately that's the way interviews go in all industries. Two of the best 3 interviews I've ever done were for positions I wasn't offered (AC and the other outside aviation). I thought my Jazz interview and sim eval 5 years ago was mediocre, but I was offered a job. The perception we have of ourselves is not the same as what others think of us. Sorry about the PFO; all the best in the railway.

[La Pura Vida]

What?! I put in my 2 weeks notice at my current job on Friday afternoon.

If there are those out there that were formally offered a spot, then had the rug pulled out, and can't get your old job back. You would qualify for EI in such a case. EI covers many more situations than just layoffs. I know it's not ideal, but I thought I would mention it as at the end of the day we have to pay the bills until a job comes up...