Lost Plane near YTH ~ YOH

[Flygal]

Anyone else hear the lost single piston last friday evening (Jul9) around the YOH / YTH area. Apparently he was flying from YTH-YOH and passed the ETA and concluded he was in fact, lost. He was being coached by a few Perimeter and Calm air flights, but I never heard what came about of him or the details. I heard he intentionally switched the ELT on in a last ditch effort. CADORS have yet to reveal anything.

[CFR]

CADORS has it now ...

O.P.I.: System Safety 
Narrative: A private Piper PA-28 was on a VFR flight from The Pas to Thompson when the pilot advised through a relay to Thompson FSS that he was lost and required assistance to the nearest airport. Approximately 30 minutes later, the pilot further indicated that he was unsure if he could make it to any airport due to low fuel and a dead GPS and elected to conduct a precautionary landing. The pilot landed on a winter road/cut line about 60 NM southwest of Oxford House. There were no injuries and the status of the aircraft is unknown. Overflying aircraft indicated that the pilot was observed outside of the aircraft waving. RCC Trenton dispatched a helicopter to retrieve the pilot, who was the only occupant and was not injured. TSB has been in contact with the pilot and their report will follow. 

[into the blue]

Another reminder of what might happen if one relies on GPS too much and doesn't practise his/her map reading and dead reckoning skills regularly...

[North Shore]

Lost from YQD to YTH?! WTF! Just fly NNE until you hit Hwy 39, and then follow it to TH. Even better, follow the railway tracks that pass just south of the runway! Unbelievable!

[razorblade]

Lost from YQD to YTH?! WTF! Just fly NNE until you hit Hwy 39, and then follow it to TH. Even better, follow the railway tracks that pass just south of the runway! Unbelievable!

It is absolutely that easy. But if you load up your GPS prior to takeoff and stare at it and not even look outside towards the ground, then all highways and railroad tracks look exactly the same.
Hope TC sends him back to an FTU for some navigation practice with the map.

[Busted]

It is that easy when things are going good, but it sure sounded like he was very very stressed out and not exactly thinking straight.

We only caught the tail end of his situation,
He said he knew he had some sort of issue with the GPS as he was arriving in YQD as it did not take him direct to the airport, but figured that YTH was close enough that it would be all good.
By the time he figured out that he was not going to find YOH he was very preoccupied with the fuel guages.
He was so stressed out that the aircraft trying to help him could not even get him to tune in his ADF to YOH.
It seemed like he was holding down his mike button and not even noticing that he was doing it, thus making it a bit hard for others to help him.
When he did get on the ground we did hear him make a call on 121.5, but I sounded like he could not hear anyone call him back. Must have been pretty stressful

I wonder if he even had up to date VFR maps or if he even had ANY maps. How many people don't have any now adays and depend on there GPS....

It was great hearing Perimeter and Calm Air both having crews take the initiative to head over and find the guy.

Does anyone know if he got out that night or did he have to donate some blood to the local fly population?

[wallypilot]

I wonder if he even had up to date VFR maps or if he even had ANY maps. How many people don't have any now adays and depend on there GPS....

Are people really heading out without charts? If that's the case.....then there is a problem with the people that are teaching as well...not just the pilots doing it.

[Indanao]

Just an example of why they SHOULD hire older Pilots. We all learned how to read a map....lol

[Dagwood]

This is a lesson why we all need to carry 2 GPS's, and spare batteries for them as well

Good thing the story ended well.

[ScudRunner]

Just an example of why they SHOULD hire older Pilots. We all learned how to read a map....lol

Its a says it was a private Navajo, some of us young punks have that skill as well.

This is a lesson why we all need to carry 2 GPS's, and spare batteries for them as well

Good thing the story ended well.

Easier yet tune up an NDB or VOR and confirm what the GPS is telling you.

[trampbike]

I wonder if he even had up to date VFR maps or if he even had ANY maps. How many people don't have any now adays and depend on there GPS....

Are people really heading out without charts? If that's the case.....then there is a problem with the people that are teaching as well...not just the pilots doing it.

I agree... Flying VFR, I think I'd rather have no GPS and no Nav instruments, and have good up to date maps that I thoroughly studied before the flight and have them close to me during the flight EDIT: ...than having some instruments and no maps at all. (forgot that part of the sentence, hence I can understand ETOPS comment.)

I'm curious to learn more about what happened. There has to be (well I hope so...) more to it than just GPS problems.

[Rudy]

He probably ran out of gas because Perimeter told him he was 300 DME north of Winnipeg. Eeeee, s'kidding.

[OceansEdge]

......

It was great hearing Perimeter and Calm Air both having crews take the initiative to head over and find the guy.

Does anyone know if he got out that night or did he have to donate some blood to the local fly population?

Damned fine buncha guys out that way ....

[Big Pistons Forever]

Searching for some non judgemental, vaguely sympathetic comment....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... still searching ...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................NAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH I just cannot do it. To all you light single drivers, by all means use a GPS, it is the most accurate navigation aid available, but carry a map and move your finger down the map as you go. This is navigation 101 and this guy FAILED

[ETOPS]

I agree... Flying VFR, I think I'd rather have no GPS and no Nav instruments, and have good up to date maps that I thoroughly studied before the flight and have them close to me during the flight.

Have you ever flown even remotely north (no towns, roads, powerlines etc. to follow)? If yes, what was the ceiling and visibility?

[SAR_YQQ]

Have you ever flown even remotely north (no towns, roads, powerlines etc. to follow)? If yes, what was the ceiling and visibility?

Flown from Eureka to Alert with maps only. No roads, power lines, towns up that way. Done it at 1000/3 too. Basic map reading is one of the key essential tools of basic flying - GPS should be introduced at a later time in their training - most definitely not before mastering the basics.

[ETOPS]

Seems like you could use allot of shoreline/mountain range on that route. Did you?
Regardless, I agree map reading is essential, but I sure as hell wouldn't make such a general statement at trampbike.

[eyespie]

I'm glad everything worked out, but this guy is extremely lucky!

Anyone know how he was located?

It would also be interesting to know how long he was in the air for and how much fuel he had in the tanks when he departed YQD.

He may not have been adept with map reading, but he obviously practiced his precautionary and off-field landings!

[Dagwood]

My students sometimes ask me if it's ok to bring along their GPS on a flight (our A/c are not equipped). I say, in today's day and age, when GPS are so cheap and available, your training would be incomplete if you didn't learn how to use it.

Bring it along, use it, but don't forget basic planning and map reading.

Flown from Eureka to Alert with maps only. No roads, power lines, towns up that way.

These days, why would you NOT use a GPS? Does your aircraft have an electric starter/radio/ANR headsets ect.ect. We don't need to stay in the dark ages because "My granddaddy did it that way!"

[fish4life]

Anyone know how he was located?

I believe the perimeter flight looking found him.

[trampbike]

Seems like you could use allot of shoreline/mountain range on that route. Did you?
Regardless, I agree map reading is essential, but I sure as hell wouldn't make such a general statement at trampbike.

Edited my post, I had forgotten the last part of the sentence. If I could only bring one, I still would choose a map over a GPS anytime.

[SAR_YQQ]

These days, why would you NOT use a GPS?

I am a huge supporter of technology - I love Jetplan, RNAV pseudo glidepath Level 4 automation and FMS. That being said, I have seen technology fail - usually at the worst possible time. Sometimes, up north, satellite reception might be a bit spotty or erratic. I have checked my ground speed at 80+ degrees and it said I was flying at 400+ KIAS. The Universal FMS on my current machine is not rated for flight above 70 north.

In the high arctic, without a map to read topo lines, shore lines, etc - you either rely 100% on your GPS or have the back up of knowing what a track angle departure check is all about. Magnetic headings mean next to squat up there - and your lines of longitude are so close that your Grid track changes so often that without a celestial backup you are really pressing your luck.

Like someone said earlier - if you have a GPS, bring another one and lots of batteries. Also hope that the US military doesn't push the button and turn off P and S code.

[sstocker31]

There are several good things about this incident....
1. nobody got injured.
2. Pilots recognized a fellow in trouble and tried to assist.
3. The lost pilot reported down on 121.50
4. Search and rescue did their part
5. The lost pilot got a lesson that he will never forget

[Castorero]

The GPS is a great tool and every pilot should have one. The problem is that one gets sucked in to relying on it as THE aid to navigation on every flight.

That may be very well in good weather on the Prairies, but in most of BC and in poor weather the GPS will take you directly into the nearest mountain.

There is no substitute, in my mind, to Always having the map on your lap, and Always knowing where you are on it, regardless of what other aids are in the cockpit.
Maybe that is a bit old fashioned and anal about it, but I NEED to know where I am, period.
Not having an IFR rating is a real pain, but so is having one, so if you are not flying IFR, just make damn sure you know where you are on the map at all times.
I rely on the GPS to give me the ground speed and to keep me on track on a long cross country in good weather, and I resist the temptation to use it for anything else just so that I dont get lazy with the map on the lap.

Now if one were to use the GPS for navigation on a routine basis almost to the exclusion of everything else, then I would have to have a half dozen of the gizmos on board to satisfy my penchant for foolproof redundancy. Sooner or later all technology will fail, for untold number of reasons, usually when you expect it the least and need it the most.
In spite of his predicament this pilot did a number of things right, the most important being that he saved his own life, and that is something that we should congratulate him on. I have no doubt that he will have learned some pressing lessons.

I am sure some of the older pilots may feel the same way.

[flyinthebug]

[quote="Castorero"]
There is no substitute, in my mind, to Always having the map on your lap, and Always knowing where you are on it, regardless of what other aids are in the cockpit.

VERY well said, and I agree 100%!!

Im glad all turned out well in this particular situation. it is imperative that ALL PPL`s learn to read a map. GPS is a GREAT tool to make our jobs a bit easier, but if you rely on one as your soul means of navigation, one day it will bite you in the a$$. This pilot was lucky...If he hadnt got assistance from the commercial guys, he may well have become a statistic.

Get a map and learn how to read it! Thats some good advice.
Fly safe all.