Future AME Discouraged

[tellyourkidstogetarealjob]

Ourkid2000,

If you can't say anything intelligent...ah, never mind. It wouldn't be your first time.

AC was doing 'A' checks in China 6 years ago while laying off in Canada.

Aveos has been sending customer work to Costa Rica for several months - while layoff notices have been handed out at AC. AC is now just another customer of Aveos. The "future" is already here. These guys are talking about coming out of school two years or so from now. The process will be that much further along by then.

[roncoldlake]

MjrPainless
As you can see you will always get both sides of the coin offered on this site. As one having just recently left aviation I can tell you my story. First of all I have no regrets. I have for the most part enjoyed my time. I have a opportunity to follow a different direction(Power Engineering). This doesn't mean I am not going to miss turning wrenches because I am and do miss it. But I have had to be realistic with my goals in life and the responsibility to my family. I now have a very expensive tool box for fixing my Quad and truck. Here in Northern Alberta there is a huge demand for power engineers and colleges here are turning students away because they are filling up to fast. I applied last march for aug of this year and was on a waiting list for 2 months before being accepted. I am on EI and will be for my Class 4 and then will probably take a student loan for my class 3. A couple of ex military buddies here are doing this job and making 125k a year as class 3s. You work 12 hour shifts either 5 and 5 or 7 and 7. You have the option for camp work for more money or you can live in town and get a job locally. In the paper here Cenovus predicts that they will be hiring 1500 more employees in the next 5 years. There are up graders going on here and having the 2nd largest oil deposits in the world esso predicts that they will be pulling oil out of here for the next 50 years.
Since my last check there is a requirement for 2600 power engineers in Canada. I do plan on staying with aviation but on my terms and with the money I make I will probably buy my own plane in the future and if not I can always be one of those guys who rents and helps where he can. With that being said do what you want to do. There are no guarantees that you are going to happy as a AME but there is also no guarantees you are going to be happy doing anything else. If you are young enough try as much as you can and everything you can. The only thing is that its too bad you don't live in Quebec. I have a couple of buddies of mine there that are going to a subsidized college and taking aircraft maintenance and professional pilot(same program) and basically paying only 200 a year for this course too bad the rest of the provinces don't clue in and offer this.

[Heliian]

Yes, it will take a few years of hard work. my first apprentice gig was 25G's a year, first licenced 40g's, worked in the south for pretty much that. When I went to work up north, I was living there full time so technically I was always home, only a few tours a year into the bush and I met a really nice girl who had moved there too. I almost broke the sunshine club a couple of times but it required 14hr days, only 2 weeks off a year and busting my a$$. I grew sick of it after a couple of years and went back down south where I can expect to make about 75K a year. This is all in the helicopter industry but my buddies whom I went to school with who are now in fixed wing started off better but plateaued pretty quick, a couple of lucky guys got DOM and PRM jobs which pay a little better but it's more work. If you are big into aviation, go for it, it's rewarding and job satisfaction is high, you can travel the world and meet all types of interesting people along the way. As much reasearch you do and comments you read won't replace the real world experience, dive in head first, tough it out. Being an AME is much cooler than an auto mechanic or a desk/computer jockey or workin at McD's or the oil patch(yuck).

Good luck to you and if it doesn't work out, I'll have the royale with cheese!

[The Weasel]

How about you post a link to all these 100k a year northern openings.

Pretty much any busy helicopter operator in Canada that works in the bush or does international work.

That kind of money may exist in the helicopter side but you need to live in a bush camp away from your family for 6 months at a time and work 18 hr days 7 days a week to get it.

Well duh. If you want to earn 100K you're going to have to earn it, but the money IS out there. Just like the above post on power engineers. Yeah you can make +100k, but you're living in camp for 6 months a year or beautiful Ft. McMurray (where the cost of housing is more expensive than Vancouver or Toronto), working 12 hour shifts (let me guess, you won't start on the day shift), etc. 100k isn't going to be handed to you on a silver platter in aviation any more than it will be in the oil patch.

[ourkid2000]

Ourkid2000,

If you can't say anything intelligent...ah, never mind. It wouldn't be your first time.

AC was doing 'A' checks in China 6 years ago while laying off in Canada.

Aveos has been sending customer work to Costa Rica for several months - while layoff notices have been handed out at AC. AC is now just another customer of Aveos. The "future" is already here. These guys are talking about coming out of school two years or so from now. The process will be that much further along by then.

Proof required of this, sorry.....

I used to work there and have many friends who are still working there whom I talk to on a regular basis (one of which is a union rep). I've asked them about your allegations and no one has heard about this before. They also mentioned to me that Aeroman, who Aveos now owns, is located in San Salvador so why would AC send their aircraft to some other company (unquestionably, a competitor) in a different country? The reason for the recent layoffs is the approval for reduction in maintenance schedules with the Airbus aircraft. At times, AC has sent their aircraft to Empire Aero in Rome, NY but having heavy checks done somewhere in Costa Rica is news to just about everyone except you.

[Pat Richard]

Being an AME is much cooler than an auto mechanic or a desk/computer jockey or workin at McD's or the oil patch(yuck).

Good luck to you and if it doesn't work out, I'll have the royale with cheese!

Thanks for making my point. When bullshit is called on opinion, this is what remains with regards to justification to getting into this industry. Bluster.

As for me whining, whatever. The ONLY reason I respond to any of this is because of the bullshit some of you hypocrites have a penchant for spreading around. Tell the complete F*%#ing truth when asked, not backtracking after someone calls you out. That's my reason for "whining", it's balancing the gaga bullshit some of you consistently try to spread. I come off looking like the miserable(really dont care) one because Im always filling in the blanks the mouthfoamers conveniently leave out. Look at this thread, and some of the responses after my initial one, dare I see some admission that all is not fantastic being an AME???
That's my point, you have to call BS, or you'd never hear it otherwise.

roncoldlake's response is a great example to a concise, intelligent, balanced response. The "cooler" response is a joke. My responses tend to be inflammatory because Im generally pissed at the idiocy Im responding to.
To anybody considering this field, DO YOUR RESEARCH thoroughly. Consider if spending about $20g in tuition, $10g+ plus in tools, being away from home/in the bush/in a camp/working weekends/nights/holidays/having a large burden of liability/having not great odds of a personal/social life, etc, for an average of when licensed of about $55g a/year is an attractive future.
Do a comparison to other fields and see how aviation compares, and draw your own conclusion

Finally, tellyourkids's point about hypocrites, yeah, the industry is ripe with them, and so is this thread. I also know who 2 of these posters are, and one is completely of the opposite opinion when spoken to in person. Not so the case on this forum, so I don't know what their angle is.

MjrPainless, there is more info here, but you really should get around the southside at yvr, and ask around. Being that you are considering avionics, you might receive a better response, but from what I know personally, the prospects are not great in general.

Just do some research, pros & cons, make a choice.

Remember, you will never get laid telling someone(even yourself) your cool because you fix airplanes, and Im sure you will not end up flipping burgers(twat) if you decide on a different path.

Good luck

Pat

If you don't mind working up north, you can make upwards of a 100k after a few years, find yourself a nice local girl, settle down and retire to the bahamas early, only to go back to work a year and a half later because life is too good and you have nothing to complain about anymore. Good luck to you on your journey.

Some serious drugs at work or clinically delusional. Have you actually attained any of this or is this a pipe dream right up there with when you plan on winning LottoMax???

"find yourself a nice local girl" - Great idea, but assuming a guy has any sort of standards at all the pickings can be pretty slim

Another fact conveniently left out.....

[Stumper]

How about you post a link to all these 100k a year northern openings.

Pretty much any busy helicopter operator in Canada that works in the bush or does international work.

That kind of money may exist in the helicopter side but you need to live in a bush camp away from your family for 6 months at a time and work 18 hr days 7 days a week to get it.

Well duh. If you want to earn 100K you're going to have to earn it, but the money IS out there. Just like the above post on power engineers. Yeah you can make +100k, but you're living in camp for 6 months a year or beautiful Ft. McMurray (where the cost of housing is more expensive than Vancouver or Toronto), working 12 hour shifts (let me guess, you won't start on the day shift), etc. 100k isn't going to be handed to you on a silver platter in aviation any more than it will be in the oil patch.

A dishwasher can make 100k a year as well if he sacrifices his entire social life and spends every waking moment plying his trade so whats your point?

Weasel get your head out of you ass and go ask a few of your local tradesman, welder, plumber, carpet layer, electrician, or whatever else you dream up what their rate for working outside at 3:00AM in -40 weather on Christmas or new years eve is.

Then you can come back here and lecture us all about the need to earn our money.

[longjon]

My dance instructor,''' DANCE INSTRUCTOR'' charges $75 an hr for group lessons and $85.00 an hr for private lessons

How many experiences AME's earn that as a hourly salary or even contracting?

[MjrPainless]

So apparently i have opened up a can of worms.

I would love to get over to yvr, but being on the island its a bit of a pain. And i wouldnt even know where to really start.

By the sounds of some of the posters on here are.. how to say... expected more of thier life.

For me.. im looking to do some travelling, and getting out there. Im game, i just want off my rock. Ive worked out in the oil field. That was an all right job, i was on night shits. 12 on 12 off. Not to bad. Done the mechanic thing, im 2nd year, rather do it as a hobbie.

Is the AME E good for both fixed, and rotary. Sounds like you do more travelling and make more money with the rotary?

What are the chances of getting in with an outfit such as Helijet, or do they outsource all of thier maintenece?

[tellyourkidstogetarealjob]

I used to work there and have many friends who are still working there whom I talk to on a regular basis (one of which is a union rep). I've asked them about your allegations and no one has heard about this before.

This would be a rep from a union that was so useless their own membership in YVR attempted to de-certify them. The only thing that saved them was massive layoffs by the employer.

They also mentioned to me that Aeroman, who Aveos now owns, is located in San Salvador so why would AC send their aircraft to some other company (unquestionably, a competitor) in a different country?

Is that a joke? Or are you proving it is possible to post online without a pulse?

Aveos has been using Premier - a competitor - in Trois Rivieres for years as maintenance overflow. This has been mentioned several times on this site and not by me. It's common knowledge in the industry, known by thousands. I don't think I need to provide a reference.

The reason for the recent layoffs is the approval for reduction in maintenance schedules with the Airbus aircraft.

You buy that one obviously. You sound a lot like management with that comment.

At times, AC has sent their aircraft to Empire Aero in Rome, NY but having heavy checks done somewhere in Costa Rica is news to just about everyone except you.

When I originally wrote I said the Costa Rica facility was Aveos. I was wrong. That's what I get for posting at 2 a.m. The Aeroman facility is Aveos. The Costa Rica facility has taken on the same role Premier and Empire did before. Either way, it's jobs leaving the country.

Considering the amount of protesting the union did before, it won't be long before mainline ends up there. Aveos has been sending aircraft there for several months.

The facility in question is this one:

Article originally written by Charlotte Adams, contributing editor, Aviation Mainenance Magazine. 1 June, 2009


...Offshore sourcing is one way for MROs to cut costs. TIMCO, for example, the largest independent, third-party heavy maintenance supplier in North America, is doing this with a twist. Last year it formed a partnership with COOPESA in Costa Rica to provide a lower-cost alternative for North American (particularly U.S.) airlines that are using or seeking a Latin American solution. The partnership, which will provide airframe MRO services for narrowbody aircraft, could reduce labor costs by more than 20 percent on high-volume contracts, according to the company.

The unusual side of the deal, according to TIMCO, is that the American company will establish the contracts and provide management oversight, using onsite TIMCO employees. "One of the reasons a lot of airlines have been reluctant to explore sources of supply in Central America and points south has been the concern about quality," says Len Kamerski, TIMCO’s vice president of marketing and business development. TIMCO is trying to show customers that this service will provide all the integrity they would expect from a North American source of supply, he says.

In the first phase of the partnership, TIMCO has worked with COOPESA to establish maintenance practices and protocols. "Lean initiatives, including extensive process mapping and waste reduction, have been implemented to increase efficiency and throughput," Chaney says. The companies have also installed a new fire suppression system and new hangar doors. The first customers are expected in coming months...





I'll resist the urge to fly down and photograph the Canadian registered aircraft as they come and go. You would probably accuse me of photoshopping the pics even if I did.

With some luck an AME wannabe is a little more open minded and can see the trend.

[Heliian]

To answer your question Majour, An E licence is good for working on avionics systems regardless of A/C type. It's a good field to be in as the travel is limited and the pay is fairly decent. Do the course and if you like it then keep going and don't ever look back. I used to be a negative asshole myself but gave it up to focus on the more finer things in life. When i'm at work, I work and when I'm at home, i don't think about work.

Being an AME requires hard work, dedication and the ability to handle responsiblity and stress. Some people can't hack it so they do something else, that is their choice and you have to make yours.

I was slightly joking about the cool job part and completely joking about the burger flipping part. Flying machines are cool and working with them whether you're a pilot or a ramp attendant is still pretty cool(or so I think). I beleive there are only a few thousand licenced engineers in canada, so it can be considered an elite group i guess.
Personally, I can think of 2 people who got out of aviation for "greener pastures". One is driving truck and the other is working in a mine somewhere in the arctic.

GTG now, in my free time I'm building an airplane that runs off my own sense of self-satisfaction, Mach 5 here I come!!

[Pat Richard]

Being an AME requires hard work, dedication and the ability to handle responsiblity and stress. Some people can't hack it so they do something else

Another arrogant, idiotic statement.....

Here, I'll fill in the bit you left out, hero.


"Being an AME requires hard work, dedication and the ability to handle responsibility and stress. A lot of experienced people can't stand the shitty lifestyle and comparatively poor pay, so they move onto something else."

There, that's more like reality.

Are you using the same glue you're sniffing to put together your airplane?

[Stumper]

"Being an AME requires hard work, dedication and the ability to handle responsibility and stress. A lot of experienced people can't stand the shitty lifestyle and comparatively poor pay, so they move onto something else."

There, that's more like reality.

+1

[Heliian]

Ok so i'm the villain for looking on the bright side of things. My fixed wing experience is limited to small commuter a/c a long time ago which wasn't too bad, just a lot of night shifts. Helicopters seem to be the way to go for an AME I guess, I would say job satisfaction is over 80% and the pay is better. These sour, angry guys must be from Jazz again, they seem to breed a-holes. So what if you're stuck in the bush for 6 months of the year the rest of the time is yours. Also, for the 6 months i am in the bush all my meals and lodging are paid for too on top of my daily rate and flight pay bonus. The bush camps have come a long way in the past decade and most include internet and television. Why do you think i'm wasting my time with this forum in the first place? I'm in camp, up north on a beautiful lake and I think I might go fishing today too.

As previously stated, I was an A-hole too. I hated my first apprentice gig because of the long hours and shitty pay, I hated my first engineer job because my boss was a dick but I soldiered on and I'm very happy with my life as it is now. I'm not unrealistic either, I still know this is the aviation business, tomorrow I could be laid off and looking for another job. Oh well, I'm going to enjoy each day as it comes and always look on the bright side of things.

To all those nay sayers out there, I give you the Trudeau salute!

[Stumper]

There's nothing wrong with being positive but when someone thinking of getting into this trade asks for info please try and give accurate info as to the real conditions they can expect.

Training to become an AME takes a massive investment of time and money. If you were looking to invest a large sum would you want advice from someone that can see the good and bad in the market and describe both to you or advice from an eternal optimist who in trying to avoid any and all negativity glosses over, omits, or outright lies about all the not so nice details.

The reality is that anyone who has what it takes to become a good AME could do far better both financially and quality of life wise by applying their talent in a different field.

The management of Enron were a very positive bunch too.

[Pat Richard]

Training to become an AME takes a massive investment of time and money. If you were looking to invest a large sum would you want advice from someone that can see the good and bad in the market and describe both to you or advice from an eternal optimist who in trying to avoid any and all negativity glosses over, omits, or outright lies about all the not so nice details.

EXACTLY.

[Stumper]

So what if you're stuck in the bush for 6 months of the year the rest of the time is yours.

Obviously you've haven't yet had the pleasure of talking on the phone with a crying little boy who can't understand why daddy can't come home to see him.

Ask one of the other guys up there in the bush how cool they felt when they came home to discover that the plumber up the road was helping their wife through some of those long lonely nights while they were away making their 75k

[iflyforpie]

People don't seem to realize that an AME is a blue-collar job and like most blue collar jobs, you can pick one or maybe two of the following: Pay, lifestyle, job satisfaction. In blue-collar jobs (whatever they may be) the only way you are getting all three is if you lower your expectations.

That could be like pretending a house with wheels under it is really a house, that being out in the middle of nowhere for weeks at a time or working graveyards is a good family lifestyle, or that you are really going to enjoy being a plumber for the next 30 or 40 years with very little change in your basic job description.

The next thing you need to realize is the grass isn't always greener and that 'results not typical' rules pretty much every profession there is out there. For example: I have a neighbor who owns his own landscaping company. Not very large, a few pieces of equipment. He has a nice house, several nice vehicles, goes on nice vacations, and just bought himself at age 35 a brand new Corvette. Sounds like landscaping is a good way to make a living. My brother-in-law is a landscaper as well. He gets $16/hr in the summer and laid off in the winter. An AME come into to here in a private helicopter to his vacation house. He earned all his money in aviation and deserves every penny of it.



I don't know if you were referring to me PR as one of the people you know who posts the exact opposite of what he says, but you can hardly take anything I said 8 or 9 years ago and apply it to today. KFC wasn't the worst place I worked (that honor goes to Cascade), but it was a close second. Combined with the work conditions, the politics, the overbearing middle-management, and getting caught up in the bitching and whining made me a miserable individual who wanted out only two years in. One of the happiest days of my life was when PK took me into his office and with his glistening eyes told me I was being laid off.


Even at these places though, I never worked a weekend (nor have I at any of my other AME jobs), I never worked a graveyard (swing shifts ended at midnight, letting you have a somewhat regular sleep and a free morning), and I have never been forced or even strongly persuaded to work overtime.

I got out of heavy aircraft maintenance and went into GA. Job security is solid, all dayshifts, payed lunch, and I maybe get my hands dirty five days a month. No politics because I am the only AME, and I don't need to be accountable for every minute of my time, and I work for good people. Pay? Sucks, but is more than $45K. But our household income is over $100K and it certainly isn't a black and white difference. People find a way to piss money away no matter how much they make.


I don't want to gloss anything over here. If I was starting out again I would have chosen another field. But I would have gone to school longer and got an engineering degree, not choose some trade that would require a six-pack a day to cope with.

My advice would be to only be an AME if you really like aviation. And stay out of the heavy maintenance sweatshops. Their business is very cyclical and soon to be non-existent when you can position a jet anywhere in the world for a few ten-thousand to get a discount on million dollar heavy check. Helicopters aren't as portable and neither are light aircraft.

[SeptRepair]

Ifly. For arguments sake, could you afford to support a family on your income alone? Lets say your wife wasn't able to work and contribute financially. Do you think your view would change? Would you leave your current job and go back to a sweatshop ( Cascade), just so you could afford to live? Would you leave your family behind and go work rotations so you could put food on the table? How about you make the sacrifice and decide to work rotations and then come home after a year working rotations and find your wife gone with your children, because this wasn't what she signed up for? Aviation is heartless and spits out victims as fast as it can bring them in.

[Pat Richard]

Pie - Nope, wasn't you at all. I actually missed your post until just now.

PR