757s for Jazz

[twinpratts]

Congrats Guys & Girls, I'm happy for all my friends over there on both the new contract, and getting new Airplanes. When will the '57s arrive, and any word on what the pay will be?

[moreccsplease]

Hi twinpratts,

The Thomas Cook 757 bid just came out, and training for the 757 starts in September, with flying starting in early November.

Since we are on status pay, every pilot in the company will get a raise from these planes being on the property, not just those that fly them.

Here's how it works:

The contract, as it stands now, is for six 757s for half of the year, on a 2-year contract (this is expandable to eleven 757s for a 5-year contract).

Six 757s flying half a year is the equivalent of three full-time 757s for the entire year. We have a medium-body pay scale (90 seats and above, up to and not including wide-bodies) and this rate is based on a top-scale Captain making $155/hour. What happens is every July 1st our pay will be updated looking back six months on our fleet, and looking ahead six months on our fleet.

So for example, the top-scale Captain pay on the 757 is $155/hour which is roughly to $158,100 to $167,400 per year with the amount of flying they will be doing. Instead of the 38 or so 757 Captains making this, and the 35 or so F/Os making their applicable payscale on the 757, it will be distributed to all 1,500 pilots.

For the equivalent of three full-time 757s this means about a 1% pay raise to all 1,500 pilots, on-top of their normal raises.

If we get another six 757s flying half of the year (the equivalent of three full-time 757s) then next July 1, our pay will be reassessed and will increase approximately 1% more for all 1,500 pilots, on top of whatever pay raise is already scheduled for next July 1st.

So, if my pay is going up 4% next year, plus a 2% cost-of-living increase, plus 1% for an additional three 757s (which I don't fly anyway) my total pay will go up 7% next year.

The point of status pay is: Jazz is paying those 757 rates through payroll anyway, just as if a senior Captain was making $167,400/year, as an example. So payroll has gone up, and Jazz is paying accordingly for the 757s on the property... But it's spread out to all Pilots.

It might not look like much to each Pilot, but a 1% raise to 1,500 pilots for getting only three medium-body planes added to a fleet of 125+ planes is not bad at all. It goes up as we get more, and Jazz is paying acceptable rates for the Pilots of this aircraft.

I hope this makes sense? Let me know if you have any questions.

[rudder]

The arrival of a true narrowbody airliner at Jazz (the F28 and the 146 do not count) is a significant milestone for the Jazz pilot group. Over the years there has been discussion about 737's and such, but the fact has never matched the rumour. It represents the first foray away from AC code work in almost 25 years. As Jazz is no longer owned by its codeshare parther, it is incumbent upon Jazz to diversify its revenue stream in order to mitigate risk. The inception of the Boeing program will be a place setter for future opportunities unrelated to the AC commercial relationship.

From a career perspective, Jazz pilots have often been told that they would have to leave if they ever wanted to fly larger equipment. Now the equipment is showing up on the doorstep and those that persevered through the tough times will achieve some degree of satisfaction that the size of aircraft and scope of work in a diversified Jazz is no longer restricted by third parties.

Finally, it is all about potential. The groundwork has been laid for Jazz to become a significant player, albeit as an ACMI service provider. Jazz is comprised of the second largest supply of pilot labour in the country. Jazz will have operational infrastructure that rivals AC, WJ, and Transat. Once Jazz has some experience under its belt flying airliners on medium haul International routings, it is only a small step away to longer haul work, ETOPS, and eventually widebodies. The Jazz pilots will be just one lease and one differences course away from a B767 operation. Given that this guage of equipment is now commonplace in Canada outside of AC (First Air/CargoJet), there will likely be related commercial opportunities for Jazz in the future.

You will be hearing alot of the Jazz callsign over the Caribbean and Mexico this winter. Don't be surprised if you hear the Jazz callsign on a transatlantic or HNL flight in the not too distant future as well.

[Bede]

moreccsplease,

Thanks for the great explaination. What a truly progressive way of doing things. I wish Jazz and the pilots all the best.

[bigskyjoc]

Very nice and detailed explanation to the question asked. Congrats Jazz.

[Character]

Well written explanation of how our status pay system works moreccsplease. Kudos.

Character.

[Old fella]

The arrival of a true narrowbody airliner at Jazz (the F28 and the 146 do not count) is a significant milestone for the Jazz pilot group. Over the years there has been discussion about 737's and such, but the fact has never matched the rumour. It represents the first foray away from AC code work in almost 25 years. As Jazz is no longer owned by its codeshare parther, it is incumbent upon Jazz to diversify its revenue stream in order to mitigate risk. The inception of the Boeing program will be a place setter for future opportunities unrelated to the AC commercial relationship.

From a career perspective, Jazz pilots have often been told that they would have to leave if they ever wanted to fly larger equipment. Now the equipment is showing up on the doorstep and those that persevered through the tough times will achieve some degree of satisfaction that the size of aircraft and scope of work in a diversified Jazz is no longer restricted by third parties.

Finally, it is all about potential. The groundwork has been laid for Jazz to become a significant player, albeit as an ACMI service provider. Jazz is comprised of the second largest supply of pilot labour in the country. Jazz will have operational infrastructure that rivals AC, WJ, and Transat. Once Jazz has some experience under its belt flying airliners on medium haul International routings, it is only a small step away to longer haul work, ETOPS, and eventually widebodies. The Jazz pilots will be just one lease and one differences course away from a B767 operation. Given that this guage of equipment is now commonplace in Canada outside of AC (First Air/CargoJet), there will likely be related commercial opportunities for Jazz in the future.

You will be hearing alot of the Jazz callsign over the Caribbean and Mexico this winter. Don't be surprised if you hear the Jazz callsign on a transatlantic or HNL flight in the not too distant future as well.

A+ for that paper - first rate indeed. As the author indicated, we will be hearing more from Jazz in the future and I have no doubt that will happen.

[flyinhigh]

No secret any more. But TC approached Jazz to operate the 330's as well, where we went with a whoooo, 1 at a time deal. So provided that we don't screw this up in hopefully not to distant future yes you may see Jazz operating as a new major player.

That is from our management as well as the Union. Those at Jazz are well awhere of Jazz's intended direction in the near future.

Great description of our scale macro

[PC12flyer]

The future is bright for Jazz! Can't wait! This company has an enormous amount of potential, hopefully we can capitalize on it!

[SonicSun]

All the best to Jazz and pilots. Look forward to join the team one day. = )

[Rudy]

So a 757 pilot makes the same as a Dash pilot? Is that right? Kind of a raw deal for the 757 guy going through all the training and groundschools no? Unless they can parlay that experience into an overseas 767 job or something. This sounds a little like communism . The pilots seem all for it though so good on you.
Work sets you free.

[Stinky]

The 757 guy will also get more days off due to higher credit pairings. Nobody was forced to fly the 757.

[teacher]

Communism, kinda, more like good business sense and better quality of life.

[Chuck Yeagermister]

Im intrested to know what the Skyservice pilots pay scale was flying the 757`s. But on the other hand Im afraid to know. I know what I make and I know its not what a 757 FO should be making.

[countryhick]

.,

Have a look at the great explanation of STATUS PAY a few posts above!!!

[RFN]

That sucks that it's not all about you then!

Geez, sharing is hard.

[Rudy]

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

[DanJ]

So a 757 pilot makes the same as a Dash pilot? Is that right? Kind of a raw deal for the 757 guy going through all the training and groundschools no? Unless they can parlay that experience into an overseas 767 job or something. This sounds a little like communism . The pilots seem all for it though so good on you.
Work sets you free.

I don't know. Not being a pilot, I wonder if you are making the same anyway, wouldn't you rather fly a 757 to the islands and back or make a bunch of hops in a Dash in the winter weather all day long? As you say, at least the experience looks good in the logbook. Is the Jazz 757 pilot going to make a lot less than the Skyservice guys?

[TAWS]

Is the Jazz 757 pilot going to make a lot less than the Skyservice guys?

This is getting frustrating.......

Apparently the numerous descriptions throughout this form and even in this thread of status pay are extremely complicated...simple version coming up...

Yes the Jazz 757 guys make as much as the skyservice guys....but.....

they took a vote, along with the rest of us....("yes we like status pay").... and decided to share their extra money that they made flying that airplane equally with all the rest of us, so now we all make the same amount on payday!

Crazy eh?

True Story

[Flaps 1]

I find it amazing that the senior pilots who knew they were going to be able to hold the 757, agreed to the status pay system. It goes to show the type of pilot group we have here at Jazz. I gotta say it is an amazing place to work based solely on that.

[prop2jet]

Attempting to explain the Status pay system to someone who is firmly entrenched in the Formulae pay system is an exercise in futility. The latest attempt a few posts above is by far the best and yet for some it is incomprehensible.

I find one thing ironic, given that if you are being paid by Formula and working in a company that is very profitable, when it comes down to pay raises, the common demand is to "share the wealth", yet within the same group there is no desire to do such a thing. At least at Jazz, when it comes down to the pay, the status pay system allows the wealth to be shared amongst the group, thereby at least validating the demand to share the wealth. Hopefully next time around the wealth is shared a little more...

[Bede]

Explaining status pay as "sharing the wealth" is only one way of explaining it. The other way to look at it is that junior pilots are demanding a greater amount of their life time renumeration earlier in their career, forgoing higher pay near the end of their career. Any way you look at it though, it's an incredibly good system.

[DanJ]

Is the Jazz 757 pilot going to make a lot less than the Skyservice guys?

This is getting frustrating.......

Apparently the numerous descriptions throughout this form and even in this thread of status pay are extremely complicated...simple version coming up...

Yes the Jazz 757 guys make as much as the skyservice guys....but.....

they took a vote, along with the rest of us....("yes we like status pay").... and decided to share their extra money that they made flying that airplane equally with all the rest of us, so now we all make the same amount on payday!

Crazy eh?

True Story

Sorry for asking a frustrating question. I was merely responding to the point prior that it sucks for the 757 pilot to make what a Dash pilot does. My point was simply that if you are going to make the same money (which apparently is more because of the presence of the 757) anyway, wouldn't most pilots prefer to fly the 757, especially on the routes it will go, instead of a a Dash or RJ? I got the basic gist of the status pay from the posts above, I just didn't know if the actual dollar amount for flying the 757 at Jazz was a lot less than the general market rate (if there is such a thing) for the type, which is the only way I can see it "sucking for the 757 pilot".

[Flying Low]

This is strictly a lifestyle choice. Different people have a lot of different preferences. We have pilots that commute from all over Canada. Some prefer to fly the plane that overnights in their home town and bid those pairings. Some pilots hold better seniority on a certain plane and choose to stay on it so they can bid the schedule they want.

Like Bede said...over the life of our career we will make similar money...we just spread it out more evenly. In the event Jazz expands further into wide body flying then all of our salaries increase. The guys in the later years of their career that don't want to fly long haul don't get penalized monetarily for choosing to fly the smaller short haul routes.

[KAG]

Having status pay will reduce training costs as it takes away the need to chase the bigger metal for the bigger payday.
You get pilots that want that type of lifestyle; longer legs few sectors, or the classic regional flying.

I think what some are concerned about is when it's time for contract talks that the Jazz status pay will bring down the averages of salaries in that group, thereby giving companies reason to lower their respective pay.
What needs to be remembered though is that Thomas Cook pays "X" for the crews - which from what I understand is around industry standard, and that money then gets redistributed through the entire pilot group. So I don’t think the argument of Jazz lowering the bar is valid, it’s their choice. If you want to compare apples to apples compare what TC pays not what Jazz pays.