Building float time and saving money
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- Cat Driver
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Building float time and saving money
What all you guys need is to find a way to get float flying experience that will have some chance of getting your first job, and get the best bang for the buck.
The best way is to have an airplane that is group owned, say five owners and when you want out you sell your share and get your original investment back.
I am building a Piper PA11 clone, starting with a Super Cub airframe and PA11 wings, it will be powered by a Rotec 110 HP Australian Radial engine and on amphib floats.
In my opinion this will make the ideal floatplane that can be operated at a reasonable price.
My plan is to sell four shares at $10,000 per share and I will hold the remaining share based on the final cost of building it.
Right now I am finishing the replacement of tubes that were rusted out on the airframe that I bought. Maybe this weekend I will drive to Seattle to look at buying new a wing kit.
When I am finished it will be used for training and time building for the four shareholders. Once I feel you are safe to kick out of the nest the best way to build time will be for two shareholders to fly to Alaska and over to Inuvik and then down to Yellowknife and then back to Nanaimo, stopping to see operators along the way.
At least that way you will not only learn about float flying doing something interesting but you will be able to meet the operators and buy them beer and B.S. with them so they will remember you when you are looking for a job.
As well as being on amphib floats I am putting a glass panel in it with all the latest and greatest because I'm a glass freak and a techno freak.
You will also have a Sat phone with you at all times and report back to me at least once a day and anytime you feel like asking me something.
I am not a real believer in these 50 and 100 hour bush courses, I think that my method is a better way to learn. And I have come to that conclusion after much thought based on having flown sea planes since 1954, and also having been the owner of a seaplane operation.
Anyhow I am plugging away at the Cub and hope to finish it this summer if I don't spend to much time overseas trying to make money to pay for the parts.
So what do all you keeners think of that for a way to learn...
....if it doesen't work out I just buy back the shares and I still have a neat playtoy.
Cat
The best way is to have an airplane that is group owned, say five owners and when you want out you sell your share and get your original investment back.
I am building a Piper PA11 clone, starting with a Super Cub airframe and PA11 wings, it will be powered by a Rotec 110 HP Australian Radial engine and on amphib floats.
In my opinion this will make the ideal floatplane that can be operated at a reasonable price.
My plan is to sell four shares at $10,000 per share and I will hold the remaining share based on the final cost of building it.
Right now I am finishing the replacement of tubes that were rusted out on the airframe that I bought. Maybe this weekend I will drive to Seattle to look at buying new a wing kit.
When I am finished it will be used for training and time building for the four shareholders. Once I feel you are safe to kick out of the nest the best way to build time will be for two shareholders to fly to Alaska and over to Inuvik and then down to Yellowknife and then back to Nanaimo, stopping to see operators along the way.
At least that way you will not only learn about float flying doing something interesting but you will be able to meet the operators and buy them beer and B.S. with them so they will remember you when you are looking for a job.
As well as being on amphib floats I am putting a glass panel in it with all the latest and greatest because I'm a glass freak and a techno freak.
You will also have a Sat phone with you at all times and report back to me at least once a day and anytime you feel like asking me something.
I am not a real believer in these 50 and 100 hour bush courses, I think that my method is a better way to learn. And I have come to that conclusion after much thought based on having flown sea planes since 1954, and also having been the owner of a seaplane operation.
Anyhow I am plugging away at the Cub and hope to finish it this summer if I don't spend to much time overseas trying to make money to pay for the parts.
So what do all you keeners think of that for a way to learn...
....if it doesen't work out I just buy back the shares and I still have a neat playtoy.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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you need an instructor?
oh - wait, i guess you do that...never mind.
great idea, and something i wish i had done before training.
Easier for scheduling the training too, as opposed to fighting it out with up to 25 other students. The sat phone idea is awesome...i wish i had had one in the bush a couple times (cheapass operators ha ha)
Great Idea..you'd almost think you'd been around for a while....
oh - wait, i guess you do that...never mind.
great idea, and something i wish i had done before training.
Easier for scheduling the training too, as opposed to fighting it out with up to 25 other students. The sat phone idea is awesome...i wish i had had one in the bush a couple times (cheapass operators ha ha)
Great Idea..you'd almost think you'd been around for a while....


That's a brilliant idea Cat.
As someone who has designs on getting my float rating after I finish my PPL (May/June) something like this would be ideal. Not to mention the cost would be similar to a 50 hour course, with the ability to gain a return on investment.
Hopefully I can find someone in Southern Ontario as creative as you Cat!
Cheers,
Steve
As someone who has designs on getting my float rating after I finish my PPL (May/June) something like this would be ideal. Not to mention the cost would be similar to a 50 hour course, with the ability to gain a return on investment.
Hopefully I can find someone in Southern Ontario as creative as you Cat!
Cheers,
Steve
- Cat Driver
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Wannafly...
Its no big deal just find a few keeners and go buy yourselves an airplane and fly the hell out of it..
...remember when you own it you can do what you want with it , when you want.
..try and insure it in case someone bends it.
Cat
Its no big deal just find a few keeners and go buy yourselves an airplane and fly the hell out of it..
...remember when you own it you can do what you want with it , when you want.
..try and insure it in case someone bends it.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Sounds like a great Idea!
Hey Cat,
I am working on my CPL, and the way it looks, I am also planning on moving down to Nanaimo this summer.
How far are you with your project? Is it going to be a certified aircraft, or and experimental? Do you know if an Experimental can be used as time builder to finish my CPL?
Do you have any pictures?
Now, I am not an expert, but a floatplane with only 100HP, isn't that a bit on the low side?
Cheers,
Andreas
I am working on my CPL, and the way it looks, I am also planning on moving down to Nanaimo this summer.
How far are you with your project? Is it going to be a certified aircraft, or and experimental? Do you know if an Experimental can be used as time builder to finish my CPL?
Do you have any pictures?
Now, I am not an expert, but a floatplane with only 100HP, isn't that a bit on the low side?
Cheers,
Andreas
- Cat Driver
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Andreas :
First let me once again explain why I am posting these ideas.
I am no longer interested in commercial aviation in Canada, especially having any involvement on the flight training side of it such as ab-initio flight training as visioned by TC.
I will not be finished with this project, nor will I be avaliable for any training in Canada this summer because I will be flying in Europe.
The amphib that I am building is mostly for my own entertainment and I may decide to sell shares in it to young pilots who wish to learn bush flying by actually having an airplane at their disposal that they can go wherever they want with it.
As to logging time on a amateur built aircraft the answer is yes you can log all the time.
However an amateur built aircraft canno't be used for training in a flight school towards CPL.
To answer this question :
"Now, I am not an expert, but a floatplane with only 100HP, isn't that a bit on the low side? "
I am building a replica of the Piper PA11 and it will be powered by a 110 HP Radial engine.
The origional PA11 was powered by a 90 HP. Cont. and it was hands down the best performing Cub that Piper ever made. So to answer your question , no the 110 HP. Radial will not be on the low porer side.
Here is a link to the engine.
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/airventure ... radial.htm
You will note that the Little Wing Gyro looks much like the Cub, that is why I gave that link.
Cat
First let me once again explain why I am posting these ideas.
I am no longer interested in commercial aviation in Canada, especially having any involvement on the flight training side of it such as ab-initio flight training as visioned by TC.
I will not be finished with this project, nor will I be avaliable for any training in Canada this summer because I will be flying in Europe.
The amphib that I am building is mostly for my own entertainment and I may decide to sell shares in it to young pilots who wish to learn bush flying by actually having an airplane at their disposal that they can go wherever they want with it.
As to logging time on a amateur built aircraft the answer is yes you can log all the time.
However an amateur built aircraft canno't be used for training in a flight school towards CPL.
To answer this question :
"Now, I am not an expert, but a floatplane with only 100HP, isn't that a bit on the low side? "
I am building a replica of the Piper PA11 and it will be powered by a 110 HP Radial engine.
The origional PA11 was powered by a 90 HP. Cont. and it was hands down the best performing Cub that Piper ever made. So to answer your question , no the 110 HP. Radial will not be on the low porer side.
Here is a link to the engine.
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/airventure ... radial.htm
You will note that the Little Wing Gyro looks much like the Cub, that is why I gave that link.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Thanks for the replay.
I checked out your website, actually i am not sure if it is yours, http://chuckellsworth.com/
Are you . .?
Cheers,
Andreas
I checked out your website, actually i am not sure if it is yours, http://chuckellsworth.com/
Are you . .?
Cheers,
Andreas
- Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Just hang on a minute, Ill go look in a mirror................
...............................
.........
O.K. I'm back, and yup that 's me.
Cat
...............................
.........
O.K. I'm back, and yup that 's me.

Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Thats funny
but looking at your website, it seem that you still offer fight training. Now, if that is not the case anymore, who in Nanaimo any place for that matter, would you recommend to finish my training at.
Have a look at the topic i have started: http://www.avcanada.ca//forums2/viewtopic.php?t=6919
mybe you have you have some good input.
Btw., do you know Bill Williams from Nanaimo?
Cheers,
Andreas

but looking at your website, it seem that you still offer fight training. Now, if that is not the case anymore, who in Nanaimo any place for that matter, would you recommend to finish my training at.
Have a look at the topic i have started: http://www.avcanada.ca//forums2/viewtopic.php?t=6919
mybe you have you have some good input.
Btw., do you know Bill Williams from Nanaimo?
Cheers,
Andreas
Next time an idiot tells me I'm overqualified...I'll show him this...
ATPL Fixed wing. Multi land and sea
Commercial helicopter
Commercial Gyroplane ( USA )
Total time: 25,000 +
Learned to fly in 1953 at Central Airways, Toronto Island
Float rating in 1954 in a PA-16
First job was Aerial Application, flew seven seasons, both fixed and Rotary wing
Received my Helicopter license in 1964
Around ten thousand hours bush flying, most everything with wings
Around ten thousand hours IFR, Airline, Corporate and charter and heavy waterbombers
Fifteen years firebombing Captain time on PBY
Last eight years flying training on PBY international and world wide ferry. Over forty countries
Airshow demonstration pilot, flying all over Europe with the French Flying Legends
Have been Chief pilot for several companies including Airline
Have owned two Aviation Companies. One flight school with six fixed wing single engine and one twin and one helicopter
Owned a float plane Charter company
Have flown fixed wing from biplanes to Airbus A320
Have flown hHelicopters from R22 to S61

- Cat Driver
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Andreas :
I read all the responses to your question.
You must make your own mind up as to if you want to go IFR or VFR in the bush.
If it is IFR my advice would be Perimeter hands down because they have been doing it forever and they operate a lot of aircraft.
The truth about flight schools and IFR training is it is only about passing a flight test.
If you wish to go the VFR float plane route, read my suggestions regarding a few keeners buying a small float plane and fly the ass off it....but first get as much dual as you can from a working bush pilot, there are lots of them out here in the rain forest....so once again....fly your own airplane and get instruction form a working float plane pilot...most schools sell dreams taught by dreamers...
Please understand my involvement here is to give free advice I do not have time this season to do any teaching here at home....
...hopefully I can get finished with all my other commitments soon and retire and just f.ck around helping out keeners....remember I will not teach on small airplanes because of the pay because it is peanuts...if I do teach it will be because I want to.
Yes I know Bill real well we share a workshop here in Nanaimo.
Cat
I read all the responses to your question.
You must make your own mind up as to if you want to go IFR or VFR in the bush.
If it is IFR my advice would be Perimeter hands down because they have been doing it forever and they operate a lot of aircraft.
The truth about flight schools and IFR training is it is only about passing a flight test.
If you wish to go the VFR float plane route, read my suggestions regarding a few keeners buying a small float plane and fly the ass off it....but first get as much dual as you can from a working bush pilot, there are lots of them out here in the rain forest....so once again....fly your own airplane and get instruction form a working float plane pilot...most schools sell dreams taught by dreamers...
Please understand my involvement here is to give free advice I do not have time this season to do any teaching here at home....
...hopefully I can get finished with all my other commitments soon and retire and just f.ck around helping out keeners....remember I will not teach on small airplanes because of the pay because it is peanuts...if I do teach it will be because I want to.
Yes I know Bill real well we share a workshop here in Nanaimo.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
- Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Yoyama it may be true that I have lots of time and experience, however time is a relative thing I would trade every minute of time I have flying if I could go back in time rather than facing the fact that I am running out of time.
There is one certainty in aviation you will almost always be either underqualified or over qualified when it comes to getting a job..
Just out of couriousity Yoyama if you had your choice of all the aircraft that I have flown which would be your favourite?
Cat

There is one certainty in aviation you will almost always be either underqualified or over qualified when it comes to getting a job..

Just out of couriousity Yoyama if you had your choice of all the aircraft that I have flown which would be your favourite?

Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.