Man up. Part 2

[Nark]

After a few long days and a night or two of beauty sleep, here is what I really should have said:


Don't fault somebody, or entity because of your personal issues.
Look deep down inside, figure out if you want to do it, learn from it and become better from it; or simply look down, grab a pair and walk away "Manning Up" to your own personal limits.

Just because you don't think you can handle it, doesn't make it illegal or dangerous.





There is the politically correct lesson I was wishing to impart on my Avcanada-land friends.

Discuss. Or don't.

[overshoot]

Nark,

You had it right in your first post. Don't let the professors on Avcanada tell you otherwise. I've flown in the environment you are talking about. I've lived what happened to you several times. Now that I'm further south I'm seeing it even more. So many of today's new pilots lack "integrity" and I'll even go as far as to say they lack "honour" for the unwritten code that once bonded all of us. Now, today, it's about what is best for "me" all the time. It's about screwing over the next guy to get where you want to be at whatever the cost. Even if it means backstabbing the others to get ahead. Guys and Gals like you are rare. Please keep your good values and try to instill it in everyone you can. Maybe folks like us can bring this industry back to its past glory. I'll be positive and say it is possible. For the rest, go back to school and become a lawyer or doctor!

[Hedley]

Just because you don't think you can handle it, doesn't make it illegal or dangerous.

+1

George Carlin once said it best: "Driving down the highway, anyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac!"

This is worth repeating again:

Just because you don't think you can handle it, doesn't make it illegal or dangerous.

I get crapped on and attacked all the time, and have been for decades, because other people think that because they won't do what I do, I must be dangerous and foolish

[Vnwheeee!]

...because becoming a Doctor is only for those who don't have the integrity to be Pilots.

[LegoMan]

Hard to show honour for a job that pays less than a bigger flipper and where your boss tells you that you are easily replaceable. It goes both ways, the induestry itself lacks integrity and honour not just the pilots.

[5x5]

Hard to show honour for a job that pays less than a bigger flipper

Honour, and with it integrity, has never and should never have any connection to how much money you get paid. It's unfortunate that so many people these days seem to have lost sight of this.

where your boss tells you that you are easily replaceable.

In any situation where there is a ready source of labour, you should take it upon yourself to become irreplaceable by doing such a good job your employer doesn't want to lose you. This doesn't mean you suck-up or brown-nose, but work hard, be diligent and always display a positive attitude and willingness to contribute. (And if the preceding sentence sounds to you like sucking-up and brown-nosing, then you are in fact replaceable and probably near the top of the list.)

[LegoMan]

There are tons of hard working people that would sell their soul to fly. And if all you can do is fly and have no other skills, you are replaceable no matter how hard you work.

[Localizer]

Nark, Overshoot ...

Give all of us a break ... the buzz words "honor", "integrity" ... get real ... This has to flow both ways and in my past experience it can't be any further from the truth. Employers want your first born .. in return they allow you the privilege of operating one of there sub-standard, snag flooded aircraft for next to nothing.

5x5 .. wrong .. you want my honor and integrity? .. Treat me and compensate me in a fair manner. Overshoot talks about getting this industry back to its "past glory" .. the employer's have created what you see today ... by using our passion against us to further there own financial gain.

[KAG]

Loc
You can't just blame the employeer, what about us pilots who are willing to work for less, work harder, and so on? Give an employeer a reason to pay less while working you harder they most likely will. Greed, one of Human nature's worst attributes.
Just playing devil's advocate.

[yycflyguy]

.. the employer's have created what you see today ... by using our passion against us to further there own financial gain.

Bang on.

[Dick]

Nark, Overshoot ...

Give all of us a break ... the buzz words "honor", "integrity" ... get real ... This has to flow both ways and in my past experience it can't be any further from the truth. Employers want your first born .. in return they allow you the privilege of operating one of there sub-standard, snag flooded aircraft for next to nothing.

5x5 .. wrong .. you want my honor and integrity? .. Treat me and compensate me in a fair manner. Overshoot talks about getting this industry back to its "past glory" .. the employer's have created what you see today ... by using our passion against us to further there own financial gain.

I have to disagree. Honor and integrity are personal values that we demonstrate regardless of our employment or position in life. When we get treated and compensated in a fair manner, the payback is respect and loyalty.

[LegoMan]

Nark, Overshoot ...

Give all of us a break ... the buzz words "honor", "integrity" ... get real ... This has to flow both ways and in my past experience it can't be any further from the truth. Employers want your first born .. in return they allow you the privilege of operating one of there sub-standard, snag flooded aircraft for next to nothing.

5x5 .. wrong .. you want my honor and integrity? .. Treat me and compensate me in a fair manner. Overshoot talks about getting this industry back to its "past glory" .. the employer's have created what you see today ... by using our passion against us to further there own financial gain.

I have to disagree. Honor and integrity are personal values that we demonstrate regardless of our employment or position in life. When we get treated and compensated in a fair manner, the payback is respect and loyalty.

And I show it to the ones I care to show it to, who deserve to have it. Don't sell yourself cheap!

[Dick]

Nark, Overshoot ...

Give all of us a break ... the buzz words "honor", "integrity" ... get real ... This has to flow both ways and in my past experience it can't be any further from the truth. Employers want your first born .. in return they allow you the privilege of operating one of there sub-standard, snag flooded aircraft for next to nothing.

5x5 .. wrong .. you want my honor and integrity? .. Treat me and compensate me in a fair manner. Overshoot talks about getting this industry back to its "past glory" .. the employer's have created what you see today ... by using our passion against us to further there own financial gain.

I have to disagree. Honor and integrity are personal values that we demonstrate regardless of our employment or position in life. When we get treated and compensated in a fair manner, the payback is respect and loyalty.

And I show it to the ones I care to show it to, who deserve to have it. Don't sell yourself cheap!

Honour and Integrity are not things that you choose to show, but a philosophy that you live your life by.

[Indanao]

Maybe that is what separates us from the third world. Plus and minuses being Education.

[skat0r]

Hell yeah lets underpay and treat our pilots like shit, but if they do something bad, lets complain on avcanada forum!!!
Not saying your treating your pilots like shit but from what i ear from the 3/4 of the people on this forum, (or from what you are saying from her) its like this in almost every small company.

[Indanao]

Hell yeah lets underpay and treat our pilots like shit, but if they do something bad, lets complain on avcanada forum!!!
Not saying your treating your pilots like shit but from what i ear from the 3/4 of the people on this forum, (or from what you are saying from her) its like this in almost every small company.

Maybe they will be good next time.

[Localizer]

Honour and Integrity are not things that you choose to show, but a philosophy that you live your life by.

The truth of the matter is, its not about honor and integrity .. these "companies" don't give a sh*t about it .. all they want is what works for them. If you got a better job offer and gave 2 weeks notice .. in some operators eyes that's still not enough .. or why would you leave us?! .. attitude. Or even better yet .. give your two weeks notice and then they give you a lay-off a couple days later .. Where is the honor or integrity there? .. let me help you .. THERE IS NONE. So don't worry about it .. do what you need to do for yourself .. because the fact is that's the only person looking out for you ... YOU!

Until there is a way of making everyone accountable .. the backstabbing will never stop .. and operators will never care about the employee .. facts of life .. all you can do is navigate your way through this sh*t the best you can ..

Fly safe ..

[LegoMan]

Honour and Integrity are not things that you choose to show, but a philosophy that you live your life by.

The truth of the matter is, its not about honor and integrity .. these "companies" don't give a sh*t about it .. all they want is what works for them. If you got a better job offer and gave 2 weeks notice .. in some operators eyes that's still not enough .. or why would you leave us?! .. attitude. Or even better yet .. give your two weeks notice and then they give you a lay-off a couple days later .. Where is the honor or integrity there? .. let me help you .. THERE IS NONE. So don't worry about it .. do what you need to do for yourself .. because the fact is that's the only person looking out for you ... YOU!

Until there is a way of making everyone accountable .. the backstabbing will never stop .. and operators will never care about the employee .. facts of life .. all you can do is navigate your way through this sh*t the best you can ..

Fly safe ..

Fist pump for that! LOL

[Pilot_king!]

Depends which companies, I'm sure I know of a rather large bush operator who gives their employees an honest day's pay for a honest day's work.

[Boreas]

In my opinion, both employers and pilots are to blame.
I'm not sure what started this negative trend, and I'm not sure if it matters. There is a positive feedback loop in this industry (how one behaves towards the other is cycled through and amplified) and its currently producing a shithole of a working environment.

Where is the honor or integrity there? .. let me help you .. THERE IS NONE. So don't worry about it .. do what you need to do for yourself .. because the fact is that's the only person looking out for you ... YOU!

Unfortunately the mentality Localizer describes here will only serves to amplify the negative aspects, and unfortunately it is held by a large, and growing, number of individuals (both pilots and employers).
So whats the alternative? If an eye for an eye will blind this industry, maybe being the change we want to see will save it...but how realistic is that?

[5x5]

Until there is a way of making everyone accountable

People can not be made to be accountable, it has to come from within. Just like you don't do it for money, you don't display honour and integrity only if other people respond in kind. Both are personal traits you have or don't have simply because you believe it's the best way to live your life.

Sometimes you might get burned, assholes will do that to you sometimes. But learn from those situations, don't become an asshole yourself. Choose your friends wisely, make knowledgeable and informed decisions regarding where and who you want to work for, and if you're ever in the position of a hiring authority, choose your employees carefully. If you maintain your own honour and integrity throughout, you'll be amazed how often you find it in others.

[N2]

Now, today, it's about what is best for "me" all the time. It's about screwing over the next guy to get where you want to be at whatever the cost. Even if it means backstabbing the others to get ahead.

Couldn't have said it any better myself!

[Localizer]

Boreas,

I don't disagree with the point that both sides share a bit of blame .. but the reality is the employer is the one laughing all the way to the bank. Not the pilot ...

I don't see this as a negative thread .. I think it helps bring a bit more awareness to some of the issues surrounding this industry, and maybe a few people can read this and think about it the next time a situation arises.

Turn lemons into lemonade ...

[Boreas]

Trend not thread. It wasn't a spelling error.

I have no objections with this thread. I was referring to the negative trend (wages, working conditions, relationships) this industry is experiencing.

[SuperchargedRS]

I'm not a religious guy, but I do believe (and have witnessed) people get sorted out on their own. Successful people will be successful in whatever they do, honest people will be honest in what every they do, etc, etc.

You have two people, the ones who understand what honor is and the ones that just know what the word means.

This is not something that can be taught, it is something that is instilled from birth, the people that cry about their employers and say "I will do this if they do that" are very welcome in my book as they make it far easier for me to get a job (or take their job when they get canned).

No matter the amount of money I deliver the same, I enjoy what I do and work to be a artist at it (if that makes sense).

If my employer is not treating me right, or paying me what I believe I am worth I will tell him and put my feelers out for other job opportunities should the need arise, if they dont shape up I will take one of the other job offers.

Supply and demand tends to work both ways.

give your two weeks notice and then they give you a lay-off a couple days later

Side note, THIS is why sending a email documenting your 2 week notice right before you tell your boss is a REALLY good idea.