Future AME Discouraged

[Indanao]

Is the AME E good for both fixed, and rotary. Sounds like you do more travelling and make more money with the rotary?

What are the chances of getting in with an outfit such as Helijet, or do they outsource all of thier maintenece?[/quote]


Just from experience, I was taking an Avionics Technician Course at Centennial College in Toronto, till I found out they were making about 14K a year ( so..it goes back a bit.). Go the AME route. Avionics Techs. are like T.V. Techs. , they got to know everything, and get paid nothing.

[iflyforpie]

Sept.

I supported a family for five years on my income alone. It wasn't an extravagant living, but we got by. My wife was sick of being home with the kids as much as us needing the extra money and her course was paid by the government. We haven't really changed our lifestyle much, just saving up more, paying down the mortgage, and doing a few more activities and hobbies.

I never left home other than when we were waiting for houses to sell. Rotation is not an option for us, but I haven't needed to even consider that yet. My network of friends in this town was nearly cleaned out two years ago when the economy wiped out all but the most established tradesmen.

And except for when I was contracting, I make more now in a GA shop than I did in heavy maintenance. Heavy maintenance crew chiefs make more than me, but many have to babysit ten apprenti and appease the pencil pushers; so they earn every extra dollar they get IMHO.

[MjrPainless]

So, it really sounds like the majority of people would go back and do something different.

Im thinking that once i get my course done ill do my apprenticeship, do some rotary stuff, and then maybe move on to something different. But i would love to try it.

Im really appreciating all of the input on there though thank you very much!

MjrPainless

[bombardierfixer]

Finish what you started, get your license and see where you are at when you are done. Going cone head or tin basher is better than a plain old M for the most part (everyone always seems to be looking for a E or a S guy) . Make up your own mind. You could end up hating it, or you could get lucky and enjoy it. You sound relatively young so you have some options. Its expensive, the pay can really suck up to not bad and even good. Pat has some points, but so does Pie. I've enjoyed it for the last 10yrs but I've been lucky...

[billy ray valintine]

hey painless

don't listen to the prozac ame's.
don't waste your money going to school in this industry.
pat ,septrepair and stumper laid it out for you.....beleive them when they tell you this industry is going nowhere.
pay for the ame is scrolling backwards,companies are here today,gone tomarrow and greedy
owners will beat the shit out of you to get rich.
yeah,...i'll get blasted for saying this but i don't give a f$$k.
blast away know-it-all's.

go into something else....like politics!{might as well get paid for playing it}

brv

[SeptRepair]

To expand on BVR's post. Companies in aviation are in business to make money, PERIOD. The bottom line is what counts the most and I'm ok with that. I used to believe hard work, dedication and going that extra mile ( working every weekend, traveling overseas on a moments notice for an AOG situation while on vacation etc.) would ensure you were always appreciated and in a sense secured your position with a company as they would value you as an asset. The moment there is a hiccup in the economy the first thing I have witnessed is the wage cuts followed by the lay offs. There maybe a few companies still out there that fit the mold of what a perfect employer is, but quite frankly I do not know of any. The industry is doing it to themselves. They have pissed off the experienced older guys to the point they just dont give a shit anymore and are only in it for a pay cheque. They cant be bothered to mentor the next generation of upcoming apprentices. Hell the ratio of engineers to apprentices is atrocious, to the point its like running a fricken daycare. Personally I dont have the time to teach my trade as I don't even have enough time to do the job myself! Yes I' m bitter at the industry. It can be a wonderful career, but the constant worry in the back of your mind knowing there is no such thing as job security wears you down. I don't expect those guys who are young and with out children to understand. But believe me, the moment you hold your first child, things in your mind change drastically.

[Pat Richard]

The industry is doing it to themselves. They have pissed off the experienced older guys to the point they just dont give a shit anymore and are only in it for a pay cheque. They cant be bothered to mentor the next generation of upcoming apprentices.

The above is very much commonplace these days, and for me personally, the enthusiasm to mentor is further degraded by a large proportion of newbs who have knowitall/arrogant/"not my fault" when they screw up attitudes. A generally poor skill level of grads is also quite common. Generally, I cringe when Im given apprentices to work with. Many years of dealing with the above mentioned has jaded me to where I trust no one, and am suspicious of every new one I get. It is what it is, and its not to say all are bad, but the trend Im seeing is it is getting worse yearly. To be fair, I hear that from other trades also, so I personally believe it be a generational thing.

So in the end Im sure Im not the only experienced guy who has little interest in mentoring the newbs coming out, or out there. I think this is reflected in many job ads when the employer lists "Must be willing to mentor/train apprentices" as a job requirement, when looking for experienced AME's. I hadn't seen that ever asked until about 6 years ago.

Sign of the times.

PR

[Indanao]

Hard to get happy after that one.

[davemccarthy737]

If you want to work 12 hour nightshifts for 50K a year go for it. Otherwise go into something else.
I would do mechanical engineering technology and work my way up to 2nd class power engineer.
Now there is a real job.

[Cat19]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

AMEs are notorious for subscribing to this adage. I know of at least 5 people who found out that it wasn't.

I'm not saying that the aviation maintenance biz doesn't have it's problems...but every industry and trade has it's own set of issues. Same shit different pile...as they say.

[Stumper]

Repeat post, see below...

[Stumper]

Repeat post, see below.

[Stumper]

One more thing to add for the potential newbies...

Some of the "bright side" posters here (who incidentally have all disappeared since the light of truth has been shined on their BS) make it sound like you have full control of your career choices. Chose helicopters, day shift, 100k salary, location, heavy / line etc. The truth is that the first job is very hard to come by and you take what you get and once employed your career is way more influenced by the luck of what endorsements the company's decide to send you on, layoffs / bankruptcies, and the company that's willing to hire you while your on unemployment, then any personal choices you may want or hope to make.

For example, all the Skyservice guys that were making $37/hr a few months ago aren't going over to jazz (to do the same job on the same planes) for $23/hr as part of their aviation master plan. They are simply stuck doing what they have to to survive in this f'd up industry.

I find it very interesting that the positive crowd has to make believe to support there arguments then all disappear when BS is called. Look back on the posts and you will see that not one of them dared call BS on Pat, BRV, SeptRepair or myself. In fact often they conceded our points as true then claimed they were martyrs under attack for being positive, or simply disappeared.

[bombardierfixer]

Bright side poster here, we state our experiance get berated as "prozac AME's" ect. It gets to the point where there really is no point to re-post how much life sucks ect... I like my job, my scheadual works for me and my family. I work 5 on 5 off and I work days, evenings, nights. I'm married (first wife still) I have two kids. The pay isn't that great, its still more than the average afore mentioned level two power engineer in Calgary. Just because I don't hate my job don't label me, and the others that enjoy their jobs. I've been doing this for 10yrs. I've done heavy third party, small charter line, contract and now airline line. I've seen a lot of the M2 world, I'd like to see business stuff but I think I'm sticking around for a while where I'm at. So now I'm just going to sit back and not post because I'm going to get lit up (again) for not towing the this industry sucks line, and I'm not going to change anyones opinions and I really don't care. It gets to the point where in all of the screaming your message gets lost now I'm gonna troll for Strega.

Jon.....................................

[billy ray valintine]

Bright side poster here, we state our experiance get berated as "prozac AME's" ect. It gets to the point where there really is no point to re-post how much life sucks ect... I like my job, my scheadual works for me and my family. I work 5 on 5 off and I work days, evenings, nights. I'm married (first wife still) I have two kids. The pay isn't that great, its still more than the average afore mentioned level two power engineer in Calgary. Just because I don't hate my job don't label me, and the others that enjoy their jobs. I've been doing this for 10yrs. I've done heavy third party, small charter line, contract and now airline line. I've seen a lot of the M2 world, I'd like to see business stuff but I think I'm sticking around for a while where I'm at. So now I'm just going to sit back and not post because I'm going to get lit up (again) for not towing the this industry sucks line, and I'm not going to change anyones opinions and I really don't care. It gets to the point where in all of the screaming your message gets lost now I'm gonna troll for Strega.

Jon.....................................

bomb......
if you like the decline that is happening for M2 guys,that's your opinion.
your ten years in aviation doesn't even qualify with me.{I HAVE COATS FROM BANKRUPT COMPANIES OLDER THAN THAT!}
when we tell you guys the reality,we get accused of how much we hate life!!!!
give me a f$$king break.
stumper just gave a comparison of the ss guys to jizz guys and from my math that's a 14.00
dollar an hour difference.do you need more proof?,do you see where this industry is going?
if you want to go backwards in pay,go ahead but don't assassinate the guy's trying to stop it.
sorry if the truth hurts.

brv

[Stumper]

Bombardierfixer,

My post was not directed towards yourself, iflyforpie or roncoldlake. I think if you reread my posts you'll see that I have no problem with people that like their jobs as long as they provide true info as regards pay and working conditions as opposed to make believe or BS.

the pay can really suck up to not bad and even good. Pat has some points, but so does Pie. I've enjoyed it for the last 10yrs but I've been lucky...

I like my job, my scheadual works for me and my family. I work 5 on 5 off and I work days, evenings, nights. I'm married (first wife still) I have two kids. The pay isn't that great

I find the above to be a pretty fair statements. Though I would caution that any good pay to be found in this industry invariably tags along with a massive reduction to quality of life.

I do wonder why in light of some of your admissions you would so strongly recommend the trade to others...

from my math that's a 14.00
dollar an hour difference. do you see where this industry is going?

Sadly it seems there are some who can't see.

[The Weasel]

I find it very interesting that the positive crowd has to make believe to support there arguments then all disappear when BS is called.

My apologies. I was out of town enjoying some vacation time

I don't know why you would call it make believe. My experience in this industry is just that, my experience. It isn't a universal experience or an experience that averybody would want to have, and I made that clear from the begining. I don't know why there are some who would claim that the only experience in this industry is being treated like sh*t, and then get all bent out of shape when told that hang on a minute, it's not like that across the board. Because it's not horrible doomsday throughout the entire industry, despite what some say. It may be so in certain sectors, but the reality that life is actually bearable in others is not make believe or BS. It's reality.

Some of your guys' experiences may have been bad, but mine hasn't/isn't and I know plenty of others who are happy with the work. I haven't worked in airlines or fixed wing or structures or overhaul shop or avionics, so my experinces are limited to a point, but you guys can't go around bitching and whining that it's doom and gloom all throughout the industry, because that's simply not true. I've never claimed that it's all peaches and roses all the time, but it ain't anal rapings all the time either.

There is good and bad in this industry, just like any other industry out there. Some of you say that being a plumber or power engineer or working in the oil patch (or whatever else) is all that AND a bag of chips. Great. What are you still doing here then? But I'm willing to bet there's at least a handful of plumbers out there that will tell you that their job sucks, that the industry isn't what it used to be, that the new kids coming into the trade are spoiled little brats, etc. I watch Mike Holmes It's not all peachy over in that part of the world either. I've also spent plenty of time around the oil patch and there's bitching there too.

Bottom line is that I've had a good experience in aviation (or I at least have made the best of it), and others have as well. I'm happy with my work, my lifestyle, and my pay, and there are others who feel the same. The industry isn't all sh*t.

[The Weasel]

stumper just gave a comparison of the ss guys to jizz guys and from my math that's a 14.00
dollar an hour difference.do you need more proof?,do you see where this industry is going?
if you want to go backwards in pay,go ahead

Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't work in airlines), but didn't Skyservice operate 757 type machinery, versus Jazz who run Dash-8 and CRJs? In my (helicopter) world, going down from larger to smaller (and less complex) aircraft generally results in a cut in pay.

[Heliian]

I woke up today and I still love my job. The pay is decent and the schedule is alright. Downside, it's pouring rain and windy as hell. If you don't like your job, find something else to do.
If you have a sense of humour, might I suggest watching the movie "Office Space", it's f ing hillarious and shows you that not even white collar jobs are all they're cracked up to be.

[conehead]

"Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't work in airlines), but didn't Skyservice operate 757 type machinery, versus Jazz who run Dash-8 and CRJs? In my (helicopter) world, going down from larger to smaller (and less complex) aircraft generally results in a cut in pay."

Jazz is operating 757's for Thomas Cook starting this fall. They were looking to hire 20 757 rated engineers. I hear they had no problem doing that. The pay starts at about $23/hr. It's a union rate. As someone else said, you do what you gotta do to survive...