Question about the Caravan from a weekend warrior.....

[alpha1]

My stats...

- late middle-aged
- CPL
- VFR only
- 500 hours, all single engine Cessna
- fly max 8 hours month
- Avcanada reader (ok so no-one's perfect...back off)

Question...im thinking of buying a used van (ive been exceptionally lucky running a small business over the past 30 years), and i know the van is easy to fly, but would just 8 hours a month of van flying be enough to keep me safe and proficient in this a/c? (assuming im an ok pilot but not the son of bob hoover..)

id love to get my IFR ticket and get into a PC12, but it just seems like waaay too much of an airplane for a guy like me to fly safely, given how little i fly each month....yes? no? maybe? thanks in advance....

[medEvac]

the pilatus and the caravan are both very easy aircraft to fly. although 8 hours a month is not desireable, it can be safe.
the caravan is easier to fly than a 172 but make sure you get proper training.

i amagine your insurance will be fairly steep!

[polar one]

I dont think that the comparison between a 172 and a Carvan is entirely accurate.
The Caravan has has much more performance and several systems such as anti/de- ice, standby electrical, standby flaps, fuel overrides, all of which have to be understood and remembered in the event they are required. Even the door systems. Been 30 years since I flew a 172 but I dont remenber them being very complicated at all. Not sure how you could make such a comparision.

As to your question. Proper training, and keeping recurrent by hitting the AFM help. As to the the 8 hours a month. Depends.

Also, despite all the horror stories, the Caravan is a nice IFR machine. The challange it faces is that not being pressurized it tends to spend more time in the typical icing conditions than the pressurized equipment. It is a good idea, because of the capability of the machine to consider your IFR.

[Ralliart]

I think if you were seriously going to buy one, then sim training would be a must, especially at your level.

I've done the sim training at Pan Am Academy in Memphis TN, and it was pretty good. You definatly get a good sense of all the systems and gain the confidence for single pilot IFR in the Caravan.

[Brown Bear]

You will have NO problems flying the Caravan as little as 8 hours a month, even with 500 hours going in. None. Take the FSI course, for a total understanding of the airplane, then get in 'er and drive 'er! Seriously. Not a problem.

[altiplano]

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[Oleo 4]

In VFR conditions not grossed out with high density altitudes then a trained monkey could fly this airplane..
In IFR conditions at max icing weights and a good understanding of the limitations, well then a trained monkey with a gold star can fly it safely!!!

[J31]

In VFR conditions not grossed out with high density altitudes then a trained monkey could fly this airplane..
In IFR conditions at max icing weights and a good understanding of the limitations, well then a trained monkey with a gold star can fly it safely!!!

Have yet to see a monkey flying any airplane let alone a Caravan

[iflyforpie]

Have yet to see a monkey flying any airplane let alone a Caravan

I have...



Back on topic...

I'm sure any insurance company executive would lose sleep at night thinking about a weekend warrior tearing around the sky with ten insured seats...

[ScudRunner]

Just a few thoughts, if you are just out having fun VFR on the weekend etc why do you need so much capacity in an aircraft? Are you going to be hauling 9 people or a pile of gear around that often to warrant a Caravan. If you do intend that as your loads I would invest in a safety pilot after sim to keep you safe for some time until very familiar with the aircraft. I don't want to tell you how to spend your money, but if your just out and about VFR on the weekend you might not need all that a Caravan has to offer.

The PC-12 is more my area of expertise, but the few times i have hitched rides in a Caravan and got to play with it, I would not think they would be too much of an aircraft for you to handle.

[Koizie1]

For weekend VFR I would say if you can afford to buy, fly and fix a caravan then have at 'er. I wouldn't recommend it as an IFR machine for someone in Canada with 500hrs flying 8 hours a month, but if you're very respectful of your limitations then its not that big a deal.. While its ability in (or lack of) ice is definitely exagerated, as a 'weekend warrior' I would suggest getting an airplane that can climb above the .. if you want to do lots of IFR. Altho with O2 I've flown the caravan at 21000ft no problem, its getting up there that can be a problem. As a VFR machine you will love it, and its reliability. I doubt there is a more reliable machine flying around these days.

I dream of owning a caravan on amphibs. Oooh, the fishing.

Flight Safety is a great course, never done the Pan Am but I hear good things from people who have.

[medEvac]

stand by elec, standby flaps, yes but who cares.... this is the simplest vfr platform going.
it always starts, never shock cools, and as long as (as a weekend warrior) you keep it vfr and respect it, you will have no problem (big 172).

flight safety is a must, it will help with the insurance and if your not taking 9 pax take a row of seats out and insure it for 6.

as for ice it doesnt like it but it wont kill you if you know what u r doing.

go for it, and have fun

[Tim]

a 206 might be an option too, if you arent worried about IFR flying (no anti/de-ice gear)

smaller and slower than a van, but bigger and faster than a 172. not much in the way of fancy gear on board and still piston, so the transition would be easy as pie.

[Rudy]

I'm kind of surprised to see people recommending the Caravan for a personal aircraft. What exactly will you be using it for? Will it be on floats? Do you need space for 9 passengers or a lot of freight? You will be paying a big premium for it's size and useful load.

As mentioned above you should consider getting something piston powered first and gain some experience. Maybe a nice light twin if you want some speed. A Navajo if you want to bring the family and friends. You might realize it is all the airplane you really need after all and save yourself hundreds of thousands.

If you must fulfill your turbine dreams now, and don't need to seat more than 6, I'd pick up a Piper Meridan.

[cdnpilot77]

Isn't the Meridian virtually the same amount of money as a Van? Further to that wouldn't insurance rates be higher due to the retractable gear? And from what I read the Meridian has a few difficult flight characteristics where the Caravan is an easy airplane to fly from what I have read and been told. I don't think that is necessarily the best recommendation.

[Bede]

Rudy,

Insurance for a PA31 or a Merdian will be far higher than a van. A PA31 is much more work to fly (shock cooling, starting, approach planning than a 208. A Meridian is pressurized.

For the OP, if you go with a Caravan, figure out how much it will cost you and set that aside per year so you're not skimping on training/mtc.

[alpha1]

thanks everyone for the responses, ive learned a great deal...

as to why the van, it comes down to 3 things:

1 - safety (nice solid turbine)
2 - simplicity (single engine, simple systems, no pressurization, no retract)
3 - and most importantly (and im only kidding just abit here), there is a nice potty.....im in my 50's, my wife is in her 50's, most of our friends are in their 50's........when you younggins reach our age, you'll get it

thanks again everyone...

[bcflyer]

I have 2000+hrs in the Caravan and can catagorically say that it is NO WHERE even close to a 172. It is not a difficult airplane to fly but please don't buy into the "big 172" line.

It is a very capable airplane, lots of room inside for the wife and kidlets and should be quite manageable for a low time pilot as long as you respect its limitations and get good training. (I went to Flight Safety in Wichita. Top notch instructors and good training. Plus you can likely talk them into setting up a tour of the Cessna factory while you are there!)

There are a few horror stories out there about Caravans and icing conditions. If you look into them you will find that in most cases the POH was not followed. It is limited to light icing conditions ONLY and has a MAX icing weight and MIN icing speeds. Stick to those limitations and you will not have any trouble.

The auto pilot is quite capable and will do a nice solid ILS right to mins without any troubles. The ones I flew also had IFR certified GPS linked to the HSI and autopilot which was quite nice for long cross countries.

It will cruise at 165 kts on 360lbs/hr of Jet fuel and will land quite easily on 1500-2000 ft. (It will go much shorter than that but if you aren't flying much I wouldn't recommend it) Those numbers are for a Grand Caravan with the big engine..

Overall it was a very nice plane to fly. Unbelievable reliability, (ours flew almost 24 hrs a day and rarely went down other than for scheduled maintence) decent performance and a huge cabin that will hold pretty much anything you can throw at it. Just remember... it is NOT a big 172...

[Brown Bear]

bcflyer is correct. It is NOT a big 172. The 172 is not as EASY to fly!

Oh, I TOTALLY hear you on the potty issue!

[oldncold]

8 hrs it can be done IF you fly regularily ie every weekend .

would also recommend you get an instrument rating before going to flt safety it will make your training there much more useful as you will enjoy the learning the aircraft and systems instead of struggling with the procedures ifr. and such.

a 9yrs ago after 1500 hrs of flying the van/ boss asked me to jump in a do quick charter in a 172 I said I had better go do some training in the 172 having not flown one in 9yrs good thing I insisted a loaded 208 caravan of nearly 9000 lbs and a loaded 172 of 2300 are not the same. the intial feeling was startling in the 172. after all those yrs i thought i was a goner when the 172 got airborne a 50knts. after the recurrent is was old hat again and it came back quickly

point is every 'bird' is different training and currency are what are important . Along with that proper self check before going to the airport. /work stress , time pressure /etc. have fun and if you have been that successful for 60k yr you could put a exp. 208 on a retainer lots of folks here would enjoy a corporate gig /it may be the safest and smartest choice you make.

[. ._]

Kids used to go flying Spitfires over England with 250 hours. I say get a Spitfire.



-istp