Edmonton City Centre Airport

[swordfish]

I was the last to land on it before it was closed...AND it was an ILS approach. Kinda nostalgic, but I guess like all our education & professional development over the years

You may have been the last to land on it but at 0322 I shot the ILS 34 circling for 30... both Red Deer radio and Edmonton terminal said that would be it because shortly there after the maint crews were out there to start peeling off the paint....

Sad day if you ask me.

The ILS was notammed off at 0900Z. You made an illegal "ILS approach" with a facility that was technically unavailable.

[yodan]

former military medevac pilots.

There is no such thing as a military medevac pilot. Search and Rescue perhaps. You seem to spew from the mouth (or the pen) and you facts are incorrect or unverrified.

Do you think they're (going to south edmonton common for IKEA)

You know, I totally missed that. That makes a lot of sense. Let's see...from the current most southern LRT station to IKEA that will take at least 10 years to build. Then given the distance and going through another County...let's say 20 years. That's awesome! For the moment I can just grab an Ikea shopping cart and make my way down the QR II to CYEG signing "on the road again"

telling people they can't spell while skrewing it up your self = FAIL

Did not get the humour in my mocking you????

As for what Kind of pilot I am, I'd be pleased to meet you, runway 29 you name the time.

I am there most Tuesday evenings

[Krashman]

The ILS was notammed off at 0900Z. You made an illegal "ILS approach" with a facility that was technically unavailable.

We asked terminal on the way in... they didn't have any problems with it but they did make it clear it was circling only. I spoke with the edmonton airports guy that drives around in the little pick up truck the night before so I knew the crews weren't going to be showing up till 0400.

[Commander Rockwell]

What every one forgets when they discuss the 15 min difference between hospital transport is patients that fly on secondary medivacs have to be cleared as stable to transport. I've flowen to a reserve where a woman has been 8 inches dialated and had my medic refuse the medivac (we stayed so the medic could help with the birth) medevacs are not what Joe public thinks they are. A.K.A. 5 min difference will save a life.


Why does anyone think that STARS or any other secondary medevac (whatever that is) will be available to transfer the critical patients from YEG to a hospital ? Who will get such a service up and running ? STARS has neither the resources nor the mandate to do so. It has one helicopter on alert in Edmonton, and it's quite busy.
Further, as one who drives between YEG and the north side of Edmonton daily, and with relative efficiency, I cannot and will not believe that anybody, even with a fleet of police escorts and screaming sirens can do the drive from YEG to a critical care unit at the UofA or the Alex in 15 minutes. It is simply impossible, unless you save all your Medevac transfers for say... Oh, I don't know....THREE AY-EM ??

City Council trumps the big set of public hearings. The outcome would have been far, far different if those who submitted their presentations and answered questions had been required to do so under oath. REmember that movie: Sex, Lies and Video Tape. THose hearings were simply a rejuvenation of the theme: Lots of floks were, and are getting screwed, lots of lies and half truths were told, and there will be media hot-on-hand when the first person is lost on that magical 15 minute ride from YEG to the Alex, or to the UofA !

Lastly, I'll ask this question: Where is the new infrastructure at YEG to faciliate and build several hangars to take in all Mandel's "Fat-Cats" with private jets ? You know: Transport Canada's fleet, Government of Alberta's fleet, RCMP fleet, Edmonton City Police fleet, DND's Challengers. If you go out to YEG, as I do ever day, you won't see it being built, cause it ain't being built. Wonder who will be out on the street (literally)first ?

[aviator2010]

Why does anyone think that STARS or any other secondary medevac (whatever that is) will be available to transfer the critical patients from YEG to a hospital ?

critical patients get flowen on stars directly to the hospital. no fixed wing flights involved.

The 15 minute difference is just that a 15 minute difference. 10 minutes for a transfer from city center to U of A will translate too a 25 minute transfere from the international. a little bit longer for the royal alex but with the 2 Billion dollar expantion at the U of A (doubling the capacity of the hospital) a lot less of the time critical will be going to the alex anyway.

Lastly, I'll ask this question: Where is the new infrastructure at YEG to faciliate and build several hangars to take in all Mandel's "Fat-Cats" with private jets ? You know: Transport Canada's fleet, Government of Alberta's fleet, RCMP fleet, Edmonton City Police fleet, DND's Challengers. If you go out to YEG, as I do ever day, you won't see it being built, cause it ain't being built. Wonder who will be out on the street (literally)first ?

that is what an entropenure calls opprotunity, with the international surronded by farmland an the writing on the wall for the city center. it's more about who acts last might be temperarly with out a chair when the music stops but there is deffinitly room to grow at the international which is what is causing the death of the city center (grow or die) they lack room to grow.

[Krashman]

critical patients get flowen on stars directly to the hospital. no fixed wing flights involved.

The 15 minute difference is just that a 15 minute difference. 10 minutes for a transfer from city center to U of A will translate too a 25 minute transfere from the international. a little bit longer for the royal alex but with the 2 Billion dollar expantion at the U of A (doubling the capacity of the hospital) a lot less of the time critical will be going to the alex anyway.

Okay you must not work in the medevac business and certainly not in Alberta!

Do you have any idea how long it actually takes to transfer care from a hospital to a medic.... then medic to a stars team? Just the red tape and briefings alone between crews especially when there are multiple meds running on your 'critical' patient far out weighs the advantage of transfering care. Now think about the cost of not only the fixed wing aircraft and crew but add in the high cost of a stars helicopter and crew for EVERY medevac.... no this is not a viable or cost effective option.

[Tube Driver]

Okay, it has been a while but lets look at the usefulness of this airport for small business jets. If you take for example a Cessna SII, V or the like and look at the numbers required to operate this type of aircraft at near gross weight with a wet runway or in snow or slush, i believe you will find that you cannot do it. I could go get an exact number, but I will let those of you who are keen look into it. If I am correct, as i believe I am, this gratly reduces the effectiveness of this airport to the point that it is of no value to business aviation. I would appreciate someone digging into this.

[aviator2010]

Do you have any idea how long it actually takes to transfer care from a hospital to a medic.... then medic to a stars team?

critical patients get flowen on stars directly to the hospital. no fixed wing flights involved.

any patient that fly's fixed wing medivac in alberta has to be deemed stable enough to transport. If he is stable enough to transport than he's stable enough to transport. If he's not stable than the extra 15 minutes doesn't matter cause he wouldn't be transported until he is. destination CYEG or CYXD. for paitents that need transport in an unstable condition STARS is available.

Do you have any idea how long it actually takes to transfer care from a hospital to a medic

You make my point for me Thank you. 15 minutes added on is not going to kill one of these paitients.

I digress arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics even if one of us wins were still retards

[Commander Rockwell]

STARS by definition is not a taxi service, despite any suggestion to the contrary. One cannot presume that STARS would be available at YEG to take a patient off a KingAir or any other air ambulance, to provide helicopter transport for the patient to a hospital. The STARS mission currently precludes such availability. Further, to make such availability would require a fleet of at least three machines, and likely more - one to meet the needs of the current mission - critical-injury/life threatening situations where airlift from a remote or time sensitive location that is within unrefuelled flying range, and the others as air-taxiis. A NGO or a government department would likely decline to attempt to fund such an unpredicatable mission.

On another tack: It's interesting how the city is calling for proposals for redevelopment, while at the same time extending the Indy contract. Perhaps we will have a high density housing project with an Indy race track embedded ! Then, the race car drivers will complain about the noise from the housing projects, and a plebiscite will have to be held, proposing to close the housing in favour of the race !! The 50,000 residents will have to fight to explain to the rest of the city the fact that their housing project makes less noise than the race cars !!

And yet another: The obstacle-free approaches of 16 and 34 have been traded for the obstacle laden, hospital over-flying RWY 12-30. Brilliant ! Yet another example of the scheming of these fine, fine folks. Pretty soon the doctors at the Alex will be complaining about aircraft rattling the surgical instrument trays ! And RWY 12-30 will have to go sooner than later !

Such creativity all-round !!

[looproll]

any patient that fly's fixed wing medivac in alberta has to be deemed stable enough to transport. If he is stable enough to transport than he's stable enough to transport. If he's not stable than the extra 15 minutes doesn't matter cause he wouldn't be transported until he is. destination CYEG or CYXD. for paitents that need transport in an unstable condition STARS is available.

I've flown a lot of so-called "stable" patients that begin to circle the drain after departure. Fifteen minutes does matter sometimes. And what's this about STARS being available for unstable patients? So, I arrive with a patient that needs to get to the hospital ASAP (become unstable during transport) and it's STARS to the rescue? I think not.

[looproll]

Okay, it has been a while but lets look at the usefulness of this airport for small business jets. If you take for example a Cessna SII, V or the like and look at the numbers required to operate this type of aircraft at near gross weight with a wet runway or in snow or slush, i believe you will find that you cannot do it.

What are you talking about? Operators like Syncrude fly there pretty much every day, year round, and have been doing so for years. Every single day you can find small business jets at CYXD.

[aviator2010]

I digress arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics even if one of us wins were still retards

[ditar]

I digress arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics even if one of us wins were still retards

The fact that you've made this statement twice now indicates that you think you're being funny. On the contrary it is ignorant and insulting.

[aviator2010]

The fact that you've made this statement twice now indicates that you think you're being funny. On the contrary it is ignorant and insulting.

your right I appolagize to those I've offended

[AEROBAT]

Okay, it has been a while but lets look at the usefulness of this airport for small business jets. If you take for example a Cessna SII, V or the like and look at the numbers required to operate this type of aircraft at near gross weight with a wet runway or in snow or slush, i believe you will find that you cannot do it. I could go get an exact number, but I will let those of you who are keen look into it. If I am correct, as i believe I am, this gratly reduces the effectiveness of this airport to the point that it is of no value to business aviation. I would appreciate someone digging into this.

I have flown out of the Muni in 737's. North American used to have an early model Lear, 35 I think, that flew out of there no problem. I think Brooker Wheaton was running Citations as well.

[Commander Rockwell]

Why not look into it yourself - you were "keen enough" to post poor information. Why not take a learning moment and fix your post to reflect some accuaracy. Then spread it around so others can speak to the future of the Muni with knowledge instead of with ignorance and conjecture. You owe it to yourself if you want to be a credible poster.

FYI: the Muni is resident to some medium size jets - a Challenger 604 and a Citation X, beyond the Westwinds, Citations, Hawkers, BE100/200/350 and others that are living there. It is not uncommon to see G-Vs and occasionally a BBJ. There are no issues with balanced field length and any thought of weight restricting the small and medium size jets at YXD. This speaks to the great utility of the airport.
City Council cannot see beyond the tips of their collective nose, the money that travels into the Muni on these aircraft. Multi-million deals can be very time sensitive in terms of negotiation and funds delivery. I have flown several trips into/out of where the sole purpose was to deliver a cheque by a certain time/date. Hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. The development of Edmonton and the surrounding area, and the $$$$ to support it is most certainly not all locally based ! If it was, Edmonton would still be the size of Beaumont or Strathmore, or even (gulp !!) Winnipeg .

[Tube Driver]

I am not saying anything but here are the computer generated numbers for the SII on a wet runway in order to comply with part 135.

Quick numbers on a C550SII

Takeoff

N1 = 96.4 /94.2
V1 = 95
Vr = 95
V2 = 101
Venr = 155
Dist = 9,825
Ret Vapp = 110
Ret Vref = 105
Ret Dist = 2,820 Flaps:20d
MTOW:15,100
Alt: 2,000
Wt: 14,500
Temp: 25 /78
RW:Water < 0.1,Level
Anti-Ice: OFF

Landing
Vapp = 109 Max Wt:14,400
Vref = 104 Alt: 2,000
Wt: 14,000
G/A N1 = 96.4 Temp: 25/78

Land Dist = 6,072
RW:Water < 0.1,Level
135 Min RW = 10,140
Anti-Ice: OFF

[nite_owl]

Hey there, Tube Driver go burn off a little fuel. you're tankering too much gas. Been into/ out of the Muni in Boeings at various weights. You may not be at max but it doesn't mean you can't operate safely at lighter weights.

[Tube Driver]

That is not the point. I said that at times even a small jet under certain weather conditions cannot use the strip. Now lets say you want to depart YXD and head south to a warmer climate, when you take full fuel and your pax, it is not feasable. The wet runway condition is the problem. Slush is worse. I think the 604 guys are doing it 604.

[golden hawk]

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... y-airport/