Unemployed pilots.

[flying free.LEVC]

Hi guys, writing an european private pilot student .

How many unemployed canadians pilots do you think there are right now in Canada?

I listened there was a time when rookie pilots could get a flying job with just 200 hours TT, just 3 years ago, is that true?

When do you think this shortage will finish? Will it take a long time or maybe a couple of years for that canadians pilots can get a job after finishing school?

Here in Spain there are more than 4 000 unemployed pilots and if I want to get a job flying I´ll have to travel abroad.

Thanks.

[sanjet]

When do you think this shortage will finish?

We had a shortage?!

[ng78]

4,000 unemployed commercial pilots in Spain??? Where is that info from? I hope it's not true.

[niss]

4,000 unemployed commercial pilots in Spain???

Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You took my right seat spot. Prepare to die.

[jump154]

4,000 unemployed commercial pilots in Spain???

Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You took my right seat spot. Prepare to die.

Please don't do this to me while i'm eating lunch...way too messy on the keyboard

[North Shore]

Hi guys, writing an european private pilot student .

How many unemployed canadians pilots do you think there are right now in Canada?

I listened there was a time when rookie pilots could get a flying job with just 200 hours TT, just 3 years ago, is that true?

When do you think this shortage will finish? Will it take a long time or maybe a couple of years for that canadians pilots can get a job after finishing school?

Here in Spain there are more than 4 000 unemployed pilots and if I want to get a job flying I´ll have to travel abroad.

Thanks.

Flying is seen, pretty much internationally, as a glamorous way to make a really easy living, and get paid well. Canada is no exception to this. If I had a dollar for every commercial pilot I've met who's had to give it up because they couldn't find a job, or got a job but couldn't handle the conditions/pay etc.. then *I* could give up flying and retire! Flying schools don't tell you this, because their business depends on your spending money to chase a dream. I'm sure that there are at least 1000 people in Canada who would describe themselves as commercial pilots who are unemployed or under-employed.

Don't forget, if you want to 'travel abroad' to Canada to get a flying job here, you'll need a work permit - and those can be difficult to get.

Good Luck!

[Changes in Latitudes]

Here is a picture to help you understand the Canadian pilot career outlook. The locusts represent pilots (naturally), the broom stick represents jobs, and the kid represents....ummm...the kid in all of us.



If you swing the job stick around in the sea of flying parasites a few may get lucky and get hit with the stick. The others will just continue to fly around, feast on eachother, themselves, and whatever falls easily within reach.

Welcome to Aviation!

[flying free.LEVC]

4,000 unemployed commercial pilots in Spain???

Of course, it is true, all spanish pilots know about our situation, that´s the reason whay Canada looks heaven for us, at least some few years ago.

I´m going to inform you about prices

The flight school costs us between 50 000-70 000 euros (93 300 canadian dolars), and we get about 180 flying hours. There are many pilots with more hours, so rookie pilots had to pay many hours, 120 euros -160 cad- each flying hour in a piper cessna.

It´s almost impossible right know getting a job in a big airline with 500 tt, and even difficult with 3000 tt, since it is fashionable since few years ago paying a type rating of airbus 320-boeing 737, which costs around 30 000 euros-40 000 canadian dolars.

Now calculate the amount of money we need to become a pilot. The best thing is than even with auto-payed type rating, there are unemployed pilots, too many.

So yes, 4000 , or even more.

I guess now you appreciate much more the country where you are becoming pilots

How is the situation in Canada guys?

[industrypolice]

4,000 unemployed commercial pilots in Spain???

Of course, it is true, all spanish pilots know about our situation, that´s the reason whay Canada looks heaven for us, at least some few years ago.

I´m going to inform you about prices

The flight school costs us between 50 000-70 000 euros (93 300 canadian dolars), and we get about 180 flying hours. There are many pilots with more hours, so rookie pilots had to pay many hours, 120 euros -160 cad- each flying hour in a piper cessna.

It´s almost impossible right know getting a job in a big airline with 500 tt, and even difficult with 3000 tt, since it is fashionable since few years ago paying a type rating of airbus 320-boeing 737, which costs around 30 000 euros-40 000 canadian dolars.

Now calculate the amount of money we need to become a pilot. The best thing is than even with auto-payed type rating, there are unemployed pilots, too many.

So yes, 4000 , or even more.

I guess now you appreciate much more the country where you are becoming pilots

How is the situation in Canada guys?

LOL, I totally agree with that analogy. Its best not to take the aviation industry too seriously. Do it because you love to fly not because of the so-called lifestyle that doesnt exist or the money that doesnt exist either. Spend your life getting a normal job and a degree outside of aviation so while you are waiting for that dream job you are earning a normal living and living your life to the fullest. Youll soon find out that many operators in Canada are unprofessional and run their operations like a sweat shop, and if your not willing to work for free then there will always be some other person to do the work because they need to justify spending $50000 on false promises given to them by a flight school, univerisity or college who are all out to make money. Goodluck.

[flying free.LEVC]

Its best not to take the aviation industry too seriously

Spend your life getting a normal job and a degree outside of aviation

If I would receive 1 dolar each time I have read this, I would be rich, it´s a famous topic in european forums.

I have a normal job, I am a nurse, but I don´t want to spent 45 years working on this. I am 20 years old and my BIG vocation is aviation. I want to be pilot since I was a child, it is my illusion.

I could choose the easy choice, which is working in a hospital 20 minutes from home, living with my parents. But I need to fight for my vocation, i need to travel, even to Canada or wherever if thats the solution to get a flying job.

I understand you try to advise me, but I am mature and have clear goals.

I´m going to fight as I can, it gives me happyness, I am aware of the risk, I am aware of the situation, but I am young and love travelling. I don´t see any reason why I should give up before starting.

I have a whole life ahead to persue what i love.

Thank you very much anyway.

[hairdo]

I would say that you won't have much more luck in Canada getting a flying job than you will in Spain. To give you an idea. I just looked at a posting for a job today. It required 500TT... to work the ramp... with the hope of getting on a Navajo or King Air 200 sometime. You will not be getting on an airline or commuter with 200TT, or even with 500TT. Heck, you're going to need anywhere from 750 to 1000 hours to get just about anything these days. Unless you are really lucky, the only thing you are going to get with 200TT is a ramp job with the hope that you get a flying job in a year or two.

[flying free.LEVC]

the only thing you are going to get with 200TT is a ramp job with the hope that you get a flying job in a year or two.

That´s exactly what I expect, i´ve been reading this forum for a long time. My idea is climbing step by step, and some day coming back to Europe with many hours and find a job anywhere, flying.

I´ll go to Canada in 4-5 years so I hope there are more jobs by then. I don´t mind working on the dock for some time if that means getting a positition in the right seat of a plane a year later.

Thanks

[flying free.LEVC]

One question guys, when you talk about working the dock for a year, do you mean working the spring-summer months on the ground to get the flying job the next summer? Or you mean working on the dock the whole year¿??

That´s all

[Stan Darsh]

"I want to be pilot since I was a child, it is my illusion. " Sorry, just a quick bit of fun here. "Dream" is the more suitable word here. "Illusion" has similar meaning, but it implies a false impression or image, like a magician's trick. Dream is the attainable wish or goal. I think this applies more to your situation. Just pointing out some unintentional irony, no harm intended. Good luck.

[tsgas]

Just a reality check, Westjet new hires, average above 5000 hrs so that's a lot more than the european carriers. Plus in Canada pilots are a dime a dozen.

[jump154]

And don't overlook work permit/visa requirements......

[modi13]

One question guys, when you talk about working the dock for a year, do you mean working the spring-summer months on the ground to get the flying job the next summer? Or you mean working on the dock the whole year¿??

That´s all

That depends on the operation. If it's a float company that can't fly during the winter because the lakes are frozen, you'll work in the summer and get laid off for the winter. There's usually no guarantee that they'll hire you back the next season, or that you'll get a flying job. Why would they when they can pay some other prospective pilot a lower wage in the hope that they'll someday get into a plane? Most of the ramp jobs are year-round, since they operate on wheels, and that almost always means at least one winter busting your ass in the freezing cold Canadian north. It's more like two at most operations I'm familiar with, and again, there really isn't a guarantee; they can always just tell you that there's some delay in getting you upgraded - "soon, I promise", "just a few more months" - and wait until you've had enough and finally quit or get fired.

[flying free.LEVC]

Thank you very much for the answers, canadians seem very polite people.

And don't overlook work permit/visa requirements...

I was thinking about this and I hope I can get the work permit as a nurse. I was reading they need many of them so I could get a chance, I read it´s easier and faster for them getting a work permit.

Do you think I could use this to find a place in aviation? I mean, something like working "on the dock" as a nurse in a place up north for example, or in a company near planes and bosses...any ideas? I don´t know how things work in Canada, but maybe there are small villages far from civilization where pilots and nurses are needed, what do you think about it¿?

[modi13]

I was thinking about this and I hope I can get the work permit as a nurse. I was reading they need many of them so I could get a chance, I read it´s easier and faster for them getting a work permit.

Do you think I could use this to find a place in aviation? I mean, something like working "on the dock" as a nurse in a place up north for example, or in a company near planes and bosses...any ideas? I don´t know how things work in Canada, but maybe there are small villages far from civilization where pilots and nurses are needed, what do you think about it¿?

You would have to get a new permit if you even changed employers, let alone careers, so it would be rather irrelevant: you would likely have to prove that there was a need for your specific skillset that is lacking in Canada. In this case, that means demonstrating there aren't tons of low-time pilots willing to work the ramp.
You might be able to make some contacts in companies working in the same town as you, but that doesn't count as working "on the dock". If they hire you to work the dock or ramp, it's either because they want you to fly for them but don't have any openings for pilots at the moment, or they want to get to know you and see what kind of work ethic and competence you have before letting you take one of the their planes. Mostly it's the latter. It always helps to get to know potential employers, but don't expect them to accept working as a nurse in the same town as them in lieu of working for their company.

[North Shore]

Aha! Nursing might get you a better shot at a work permit/landed immigrancy. BUT!! How much work (and money) will you have to do here to transfer your nursing credentials so that they are valid in North America?
That being said, nursing might open some doors in the medevac arena...which could lead to a flying seat...

[getaround]

I wouldn't take information from here in regards to work permits and such as gospel. I have already read above many points about work permits that are not quite fact; folks are helping with points here however for the facts you need to go elsewhere.

Check out ALL the options for work permits & residency in the following forum's.

http://www.canadavisa.com & http://www.immigration.ca

[getaround]

You would have to get a new permit if you even changed employers, let alone careers, so it would be rather irrelevant: you would likely have to prove that there was a need for your specific skillset that is lacking in Canada. In this case, that means demonstrating there aren't tons of low-time pilots willing to work the ramp.

That's not quite correct; not all work permits make you have a LMO nor do you need to work for the same employer; you may change employers and you may work in any role you wish. Just depends on the type permit.You are correct that some permit are as you say however not all.

[Bede]

Thank you very much for the answers, canadians seem very polite people.
:

You should check out the Air Canada forum.

[modi13]

That's not quite correct; not all work permits make you have a LMO nor do you need to work for the same employer; you may change employers and you may work in any role you wish. Just depends on the type permit.You are correct that some permit are as you say however not all.

From http://www.canadaworkpermit.com/faq/general.html: "Once a work permit is issued, can I change employers? It would generally be necessary to seek a new work permit in order to engage in work with a different employer. A work permit is generally issued on the basis of an intention to work in a specific position and for a specific employer."
And from http://www.canadaworkvisa.ca/info/faq.php#11, which immigration.ca links to: "Can I change employers on the same work permit?As a general rule, work permits apply to a specific employer. If you change employers you must apply for a new work permit. Only workers admitted to Canada on an open work permit can change employer without reapplying. Open work permits are the exception and may be available to the spouses/common law partners of certain work permit holders, the spouses/common law partners of foreign students in Canada, asylum seekers, in-land sponsored family members, and destitute students in Canada."

[flying free.LEVC]

Thank you very much, few by few we are making way

I´ve been reading I would be a "skilled worker" as a nurse, since they just ask:

For your application to be eligible for processing, you must:

include the results of your official language proficiency test, AND
have a valid offer of arranged employment, OR
have one year of continuous full-time paid work experience in at least one of the occupations listed here.

And one of these occupations is Registered nurse, mine.

I made also some kind of test of "eligibility" and I got 74, a good mark, thanks to my profession, experience, adaptability...

How much work (and money) will you have to do here to transfer your nursing credentials so that they are valid in North America?

Yes, it will take some time, some money and some exams, but not impossible.

you may change employers and you may work in any role you wish. Just depends on the type permit.

Very constructive message getaround

This is good, do you know if as a "skilled worker" could be possible, for example, stop working in the hospital to accept a job "on the dock"?? With the same work permit? Do they have that kind of freedom¿?

Indeed, what is "the medevac arena"¿??

Thanks a lot for your help guys