Ferrying newly purchased Airplane from US

[cdnpilot77]

Can anyone tell me (information on the net is so diluted) what I need to do in terms of personal licensing to pick up an 'N' registered airplane in the US that is being purchased by a Canadian and to be registered and based in Canada and fly it back over the border. Do I need to do the conversion for an FAA license?

I have a basic understanding of the importing process itself (we have already sent our AME down to inspect the airplane to Canadian Standards) and have other experts working on the import process for us, it's just my personal licensing that I need to get a definitive answer on.

Thanks
CP77

[Hedley]

If you want to fly an N-registered aircraft in the USA, you must have an FAA pilot certificate.

However, once it crosses the border into Canada, you can fly an N-registered aircraft with your Canadian pilot licence.

I can dig up the FARs and CARs again for you, if you send me a cheque for $100. Or, you could use goggle and do it yourself.

[624]

You can de-registered the aircraft in the USA. Once that's done TC will issue you a temp. registration and a ferry permit. Then you can fly it home with your Canadian license. Make sure it's eligible for registration in Canada before you de-register it though.

[Bede]

Walk into an FSDO with your Canadian licence and ask for a US licence. They have a special name for it as it is based on your Canadian licence and medical. Pay nothing (at least 10 years ago it was free), walk out and fly your airplane.

[Shiny Side Up]

Walk into an FSDO with your Canadian licence and ask for a US licence. They have a special name for it as it is based on your Canadian licence and medical. Pay nothing (at least 10 years ago it was free), walk out and fly your airplane.

Last time I did it they charged $30 for it, that was about 5 years ago.

[RatherBeFlying]

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificate ... ification/

According to this you need a lead time of 45 to 90 days.

Has anybody walked in to an FSDO and come out with an FAA license recently?

[cdnpilot77]

Thank you for the sarcasm Hedley. By the way, had trouble getting any information out of "goggle" Google on the other hand is a wealth of information...just having a little fun but really, let me clarify.

I am well aware of the need to convert if I want to fly an N registered airplane in the USA, no need to quote any regs. The airplane is N registered now, but not for long, it will be getting a Canadian Registration. This is the part of the importing process that I could not find on google and get a definite answer on and hence the questions here. A search of the forums did not provide much info in this regard. Anyways, does it get the Canadian registration before it comes over the border or does it get the Canadian registration after it crosses the border, hold onto the N reg until then, and have the need to convert to faa licnese in order to fly the airplane to Canada.

[Conquest Driver]

If I were you, I'd keep the "N" number till I got it up here and confirmed it will pass Canadian standards. Getting a ferry pilot or a FAA license may be an inconvenience but it's nothing compared to the shitstorm that will happen if you de-register the aircraft in the U.S. then find you have a problem in Canada.

[Navajo Flyer]

I agree... The easiest way is to ferry it with the N number. We picked up a machine in the states and had it been deregistered. They were unable to get an acceptable photo of the data plate, for Canadian registry. We eventually came up with one - hired professional photographer. Couldn't even get a photo with pencil shading. Long story short. We could of ordered a repacement data plate, but needed a letter from the authorities inwhich the aircraft is currently registered with. Nobody,between countries.

[cdnpilot77]

We have already sent an AMO to go over the airplane in fine detail and also all the paperwork and books. The books were not completely in order and because of this, the seller is spending a few thousand more dollars and lots of time getting them up to date. The airplane is impeccable and has just under 600hrs since being rebuilt including the engine and prop. Meeting Canadian standards from what I am being told by the AMO is not an issue.

[Lurch]

We have already sent an AMO to go over the airplane in fine detail and also all the paperwork and books. The books were not completely in order and because of this, the seller is spending a few thousand more dollars and lots of time getting them up to date. The airplane is impeccable and has just under 600hrs since being rebuilt including the engine and prop. Meeting Canadian standards from what I am being told by the AMO is not an issue.

Make sure this is a Canadian AMO going over this NOT an American one.

Your best bet, I have done this a few times, is to leave the N Reg and then convert to a Canadian once up here.

Lurch

[cdnpilot77]

Definitly a Canadian AMO, and have just learned that they have decided to de-register the N number and register the airplane with a Canadian Reg. before it is picked up so this is now a non-issue. Thank you all for your replies.

On a side note, is there anyone selling a lightly used Garmin 496 or 696 or similar?

Thanks
CP77

[Hawkerflyer]

Done this many times before. Make sure all the papers are in order ie customs. The aircraft will have to be duty paid or they will give you a very hard time. Pm me if you have specific info you need answered.

[pelmet]

[quote="Hedley"]If you want to fly an N-registered aircraft in the USA, you must have an FAA pilot certificate.

However, once it crosses the border into Canada, you can fly an N-registered aircraft with your Canadian pilot licence.

I can dig up the FARs and CARs again for you, if you send me a cheque for $100. Or, you could use goggle and do it yourself.[/quote]

For the average Canadian citizen, is it only allowable to operate that N registered aircraft in Canada for 90 days?

[Hedley]

For the average Canadian citizen, is it only allowable to operate that N registered aircraft in Canada for 90 days?

I can dig up the FARs and CARs again for you, if you send me a cheque for $100. Or, you could use goggle and do it yourself

[Strega]

For the record,

If a non US citizen buys an "N" registered airplane, the registration (including the temporary pink copy) becomes invalid. So legally the only way you can ferry a use plane to Canada is to cancel the us reg, then get Canadian marks, and a ferry permit from TC, otherwise you are breaking US law. Kinda makes the license thing a moot point.

[cgartly]

For the record,

If a non US citizen buys an "N" registered airplane, the registration (including the temporary pink copy) becomes invalid. So legally the only way you can ferry a use plane to Canada is to cancel the us reg, then get Canadian marks, and a ferry permit from TC, otherwise you are breaking US law. Kinda makes the license thing a moot point.

This is 100% correct, I just went through the whole process 6 months ago. A lot of people fly them back with the N numbers and FAA certificate but this is not legal. The only way for a Canadian to purchase a N numbered aircraft and have it flown to Canada as a N numbered aircraft is to have the seller fly the plane here and complete the transaction at home in Canada.

In addition to the above once you de-register the US aircraft sitting in the US and obtain a provisional C of R from Transport Canada along with the associated ferry permit, you also need to obtain a SFA (Special Flight Authority) from the FAA for the plane to have be legal to fly in the USA without a C of A. The US C of A becomes invalid as soon as the US registration is canceled. On a positive note however the US does not charge to issue a SFA.

PM me if you need more info.

[pelmet]

Thanks for your offer Hedley. I am tempted but it looks like we now have the correct answers. Thanks guys.

[skymarc]

The easier way, is to have the previous US owner or a ferry pilot to deliver the a/c into Canada N registered at your import shop. I just did this last Dec and did the customs at the same time, very easy to do and painless.

[RatherBeFlying]

Safest way is putting the purchase price in escrow and have the US owner ferry it to the Canadian shop. Complete the purchase if inspection OK (agreement should specify who is on hook for rectifications); otherwise (if rectification cost ridiculous) reimburse owner for flight and expenses in both directions.

Use AB corporation to save PST.

[Louis]

You didn't specify if your import is a commercial or a private one.
If commercial: take a broker to take care of the B3 form and all that stuff, unless you are experienced with this yourself. Better yet: pick an airport of entry with a staffed CBSA office on site, and a broker that has an office nearby. (CYQG Windsor, ON, is a good example.)

Don't forget, you need to clear customs for both the airplane and you as a traveller. The two aren't automatically linked. Call CANPASS ahead.

To add to RatherBeFlying and skymarc's posts, you could ferry the plane to Canada yourself on its N registration and airworthiness provided:
-You have the correct FAA certificates.
-You are added on the seller's insurance, or, take out your own insurance coverage.

[cgartly]

You didn't specify if your import is a commercial or a private one.
If commercial: take a broker to take care of the B3 form and all that stuff, unless you are experienced with this yourself. Better yet: pick an airport of entry with a staffed CBSA office on site, and a broker that has an office nearby. (CYQG Windsor, ON, is a good example.)

Don't forget, you need to clear customs for both the airplane and you as a traveller. The two aren't automatically linked. Call CANPASS ahead.

To add to RatherBeFlying and skymarc's posts, you could ferry the plane to Canada yourself on its N registration and airworthiness provided:
-You have the correct FAA certificates.
-You are added on the seller's insurance, or, take out your own insurance coverage.

You can't insure something you don't own. If you own it the US Registration is invalid as is the C of A. The only way you could fly it back yourself under US registration and C of A is if the sale doesn't complete until the plane is on the ground in Canada. You could I suppose take out a Silver Wings policy with Marsh (Copa) and that would cover your liability for the trip, you wouldn't have in motion hull though.

[MD-M]

http://wisemanaviationservices.blogspot.com will answer a lot of these types of questions

[cgartly]

Awesome blog, wish I had found it a year ago when I was importing my plane.

[cgartly]

Another piece of info that might be helpful to add.

When ordering the FAA CD for $10, it takes a couple weeks to arrive. I have been ordering the FAA records from Plane Fax Reports for $19 and I get them typically in a couple of hours.