English Proficiency Test Is a Big Deal

[NorthernGoose]

After spending alot of time flying in the lower mainland of BC and Southern Ontario I feel as though it may be neccesary to draw the attention to the english proficiency test that is put in place and mandatory for every pilot. The standards to pass this test are very mediocre and it is something that should definitely be of growing concern. Dont get me wrong I am all for immigration and the training of foreign pilots in Canada its great for buisness and our training is world renowned but the problem lies with the clarity of voices on the radio. There have been to many instances where pilots have been unable to understand others on the radio aswell as tower communications. With myself I have personally almost been hit twice because of a miss understanding as to someones exact location. I'm not one to hold back on the radio but sometimes it is just not understandable. This is by no means a judgment of flying calibre but simply to make a point that english is the ICAO standard and the english proficiency test should be a little more stern.

Thoughts?

[zed]

Haven't been involved in language issues, other than living for four years in Quebec and using English on the radio up in the Lac St Jean area...

I think you'll find that TC gears its regulations to meet ICAO agreed levels. Largely because international agreements are rather complicated, a rather big understatement. By adopting our own standards, even if they go beyond any agreed ICAO standards, will not necessarily create a net benefit for our national aviation industry. And may only incur additional costs. The language requirement is not a national requirement, its an international one. Regarding language, what ICAO says is that:

pilots on international flights shall demonstrate language proficiency in either English or the language used by the station on the ground. Controllers working on stations serving designated airports and routes used by international air services shall demonstrate language proficiency in English as well as in any other language(s) used by the station on the ground.

[You can find more information from ICAO itself as its FAQ actually lays out language requirements reasonably well. But this is a newly agreed change, and its still in the process of being worked through by many nations. http://www.icao.int/icao/en/trivia/peltrgFAQ.htm#23 ]

In Canada you we have two languages that are recognized: English or French. This is per CARs 602.133 where "English and French are the languages of aeronautical radiocommunication in Canada". [ http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... tm#602_133 ] However while ATC/FSS are always available in English in Canada, they are only available in French per the list detailed in 602.134.

Personally I am quite happy that ICAO has finally gotten around to quantifying the English requirement expected of pilots and ATCs serving the international flights. It’s a step in the right direction, and yes I agree with you that they are a pretty low standard. But ICAO has been trying to achieve an agreement on this subject for decades. I suspect that it’s about as high as they could go and still have an agreement. We’ll have to see how it works out internationally, and not just in Canada, before declaring the standard as being too low. Just my thoughts.
Z.

[ywgflyboy]

racist

Hit a nerve?

NorthernGoose, I will agree with you and say it needs to be stepped up a bit. One of my biggest arguments would be a past experience of mine when I was in a stop-and-go and an aircraft instructed to hold short entered the runway after I crossed the numbers and began a roll. It became very evident in the following transmissions between twr and the ac that there was very little understanding in the words being said. Now, anyone think an ICAO IQ pre-screen is in order?

[Localizer]

Now, anyone think an ICAO IQ pre-screen is in order?

I don't think there is any correlation between IQ and one's understanding of the English language. I wouldn't say you have a low IQ because you don't understand Mandarin.

[ywgflyboy]

That statement was toward the fact someone thought it was appropiate to commence a roll while an aircraft was on a stop-and-go while still stopped

[zed]

Don't forget the other aspect of the whole situation... He's a student pilot.

He's already likely at a deficit in terms of SA just based on that. Throw in a foreign language in which he is at a basic level in a calm un-stressed room during testing, and unfortunately am not be surprised that the first thing he starts to lose is his ability to communicate and think clearly. Many students are like that, even if English is their first language.

Not sure there's a simple answer, notwithstanding what I've already stated about the actual regulations. I think the only way to rapidly address it would be for TC to take enforcement action if re-occurring issues happen with certain FTUs or with particular students. Because notwithstanding whatever language test is taken, or grade acheived, its ultimately the instructor for that student who says he can solo, and supervises his flights. If there is an issue (language or otherwise) that an instructor judges could impede the safe conduct of a flight, then the flight should not occur. Period. That is an instructor's responsibility. Responsibility to ensure that this is what is happening with those instructors, I would say falls onto the CFI/FTU itself.

This does put the instructor into a bit of a pickle with his employer, and even the student (e.g. " I wasn't allowed to fly, not for safety reasons, but because he was racist"). But I always understood that being a pilot meant taking on such responsibilities. No different then many other moral dilemmas that a disreputable employer may put you into deciding.

My hope is that TC takes notice and acts without having to wait for a body count. But based on past and current experiences with TC, I wouldn't say that is likely. Sadly.

[ywgflyboy]

What does it have to do with TC... Isn't this what SMS is all about?

[moocow]

Comes down to money, simple as that. Name one FTU that refuse to enroll a student base on their language skills. You can't say it's racism since it does affect flight safety but I can still imagine a poor instructor getting drag into BC Human Rights Commission.

[sakism]

The language requirement is not a national requirement, its an international one. Regarding language, what ICAO says is that:

pilots on international flights shall demonstrate language proficiency in either English or the language used by the station on the ground. Controllers working on stations serving designated airports and routes used by international air services shall demonstrate language proficiency in English as well as in any other language(s) used by the station on the ground.

Guess what, though. If there is no station on the ground, pilot's are technically not required to speak any particular language.

...or, if a resident of Pond Inlet decides to buy his own aircraft he can fly almost anywhere in Nunavut and Northern Quebec without being able to speak English properly because all the CARs stations are manned by people who speak Inuk.

The language rules of ICAO work well in most areas of the world where there are:
A - very few uncontrolled aerodromes & airspace, and/or
B - very few general aviation aircraft.

Canada isn't A or B. ICAO gave into the Quebecois on this issue and because of this there is greater potential for language barrier accidents than anywhere else on earth.

[akoch]

My experience as an ESP guy (actually not even second language, but that's irrelevant):
- the ATC is (almost) always great, trained and provide very easy to understand instructions. They also follow the ICAO standard phraseology 99% of the time.
- the ELS students can be sometimes difficult to understand, but they seldom say anything nonstandard or unusual. Besides you are prepared and expect it.
- this is some of the native-speakers GA pilots that are the hardest part for any person outside of NA - often colored language, nonstandard phraseology, sometimes poor articulation, often too fast or omitting syllables to be well understood considering poor radio transmission quality/EMI. Also more likely to include irrelevant things into the radio work.

So this is just an observation, take it as such.

[NorthernGoose]

There is also the argument that english is to be spoken Internationally as per ICAO standards and looking into accidents in the past there are a few examples where either ATC or the responding aircraft are not entirely clear. Many aircraft who dont understand a command and are under VFR control will proceed under their own understanding. Where as IFR is a little less likely to let something slip by because of the repetative nature of that type of flying. Regarless language will always be a topic of discussion for saftey and as an english speaking pilot obviously my concerns are slightly biased but it is merely my frustration within canadian airspace which I'm trying to convey.

[zed]

English is only the language of international flight. Local GA or other domestic flights do not have to operate in English, they must operate (referring to mandatory communication, and not just gabbing on radio) in the language of the country. In our case its English and French (limitations imposed on the use of French). As someone else pointed out, the friction appears when operating in these bilingual areas where it is possible to experience degraded SA because position reports and Air-Ground-Air communications may be occuring in both languages. If you don't speak, or have less then perfect ability in the other language (French or English) then you will likely not have as much SA. But its hardly unique to Canada. India springs to mind, and there are a number of European countries with multiple offcial languages that could potentialy create issues.

There have been problems with language, but its hard to research or to apportion how much confusion was caused by poor english skills or understanding. Research is now ongoing as a result of the ICAO agreement on language testing.

If a plane rolls onto the active runway and gets hit, was it because the pilot didn't understand (language) or some other human factor? Would probably get lumped into some other factor, unless there was clearly a problem on the surviving end and it was taped... Like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1FDZwqHvs

Or this more serious incident...

Note that while its an Air France flight, the pilot sounds more like a native English person. Imagine how much worse it might have been if both of them were using their secondary language and trying to communicate.

[sakism]

India springs to mind, and there are a number of European countries with multiple official languages that could potentialy create issues.

How many GA aircraft and pilots are in India?

How many uncontrolled aerodromes/uncontrolled airspace in Europe?

[akoch]

How many uncontrolled aerodromes/uncontrolled airspace in Europe?

A lot. Why?

[Big Pistons Forever]

Or this more serious incident...

Note that while its an Air France flight, the pilot sounds more like a native English person. Imagine how much worse it might have been if both of them were using their secondary language and trying to communicate.

I think the pilot ws not very professional. He has declared a low fuel emergency and yet he spends 2 minuites crapping on a controller who obviously is clueless. Seems to me he would have been better off concentrating on getting on the ground before it got really silent. There will be plenty of time on the ground to express ones displeasure, not to mention filling out all the company paperwork a landing with low fuel is going to generate.......

[200hr Wonder]

My experience as an ESP guy (actually not even second language, but that's irrelevant):
- the ATC is (almost) always great, trained and provide very easy to understand instructions. They also follow the ICAO standard phraseology 99% of the time.
- the ELS students can be sometimes difficult to understand, but they seldom say anything nonstandard or unusual. Besides you are prepared and expect it.

And there is the rub. Sure the controllers use proper phraseology MOST of the time and the ESL pilots use it even more than that, the problem is when a situation occurs that is out side of standard. These are the critical situations where understanding is going to be important. For example a SPP is low on fuel and lost, sure they can call a Mayday properly but if they are unable to articulate there exact position so that FSS or another pilot can vector them to a suitable landing sight what was an embarrassing situation can end up deadly. The other all to common mistake I see and or hear is a pilot not understanding airspace procedures. This is quite common at larger airports YYZ, YVR etc. Someone will be "cleared the Keats visual for runway 12". This is all nicely laid with land marks, speeds, altitudes procedures etc. on the VTA for YVR. If the pilot (and may be licensed at this point) can not read and understand the procedure quickly he may end up in the wrong place and cause a serious problems.

[akoch]

Reading a procedure for most ESL people is the easiest part, that typically presents zero problems. Reading skills tend to be well ahead of speaking/listening. I would not worry too much here.

Responding to the position calls with standard terminology should also work at least satisfactory, right?

It is when a more evolved/eloquent language is used you are likely to run into an issue with an ESL person. And you will, it is only a question of when - some are better some are not so good. And realistically it is not going to change any time soon, right?

[sakism]

How many uncontrolled aerodromes/uncontrolled airspace in Europe?

A lot. Why?

Because in controlled airspace and at controlled aerodromes there is someone creating separation - it is not merely being arranged between pilot's who do not have the ability to communicate properly because of language barriers.

[akoch]

Because in controlled airspace and at controlled aerodromes there is someone creating separation - it is not merely being arranged between pilot's who do not have the ability to communicate properly because of language barriers.

That's the thing, and entirely different topic. In a lot of those places (outside of major international hubs) that "someone creating separation" would barely speak English too, if at all. Youtube is full of those "funny" ATC exchanges. It is changing painfully slowly, but often it is one step forward two steps back.

[zed]

I think the pilot ws not very professional. He has declared a low fuel emergency and yet he spends 2 minutes crapping on a controller who obviously is clueless. Seems to me he would have been better off concentrating on getting on the ground before it got really silent. There will be plenty of time on the ground to express ones displeasure, not to mention filling out all the company paperwork a landing with low fuel is going to generate.......

Agree with you on that one BigP... But after piloting a 13 hour flight, having to deal with that, might test the patience of a few pilots and their ability to restrain themselves. But yes, he should have bit down on something and sat on it. Or vented inside the cockpit and not over the airwaves. But I sort of understand why he's just a tad frustrated.

[scopiton]

a minimum 85% at the TOEFL exam should be required from all pilots willing to fly commercially and internationally. problem solved.
now, how do we have the ICAO decide that guys, hum ?...........

[2R]

The Standard ICAO radio telephoney is not taught for political reasons in Canada.In spite of the UN ICAO offices in Montreal.
The radio telephoney standards that allow non-english speakers to understand clearances are not taught because some of those who attended the fascist rallies in Montreal in 1942 might take offence.

JFK said you cannot kill an idea and i believe he may not have been thinking about the rascist fascist policies of certain groups in Canada , the fascists would be proud of the way certain groups promote the Vichey doctrines.

As interesting as the French -English debate may be,it will not provide the entertainment value that the Manderin -Cantonese language debate will provide.Might even provide as much entertainment as the Taiping Rebellion.

[foxmoth]

i heard about a tower controller qualifing at a major airport who was cut as nobody could understand him that is very sad after he completed his training but how did NavCanada let him get that far?

[2R]

In a simplier times, standard ICAO radio telephoney did not require a through understanding of English.
Foxtrot Oscar

[akoch]

In a simplier times, standard ICAO radio telephoney did not require a through understanding of English.
Foxtrot Oscar

Yes, this is the only way to make it safe. Or an entirely new protocol, not unlike that is used in computer world to communicate (may I say successfully?) all computers around the world.