Air Force

hollywood · Post by **hollywood** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:56 pm

I just came back from Air Crew selection in Trenton with the Forces, and was wondering if anyone else had heard anything about other groups that went. My group had 15 for the simulators, 4 failed, then 4 failed the medical due to short legs and bad ECG's. Also does anybody know how many pilots they are accepting this year?? and how many passed in the other selection groups?

Cheers

BuddyJay · Post by **BuddyJay** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:18 am

I don't know if it really matters how many they're looking for because from my past experience in 2001 when they were really short on pilots, I made it through the whole selection process all the way to board review only to find out that the program I was enrolling under wasn't open anymore. The program was CEOTP, but the funny thing is, this is after they flew me to Ont. and I passed all their testing only to be told that since I didn't have a university degree I wouldn't be considered... Didn't make much sense in my eyes, I had to play hard ball with the recruitment officer to finally be told that the CEOTP program was reopened but by then it was 2 years later

I wasn't interested after all that, plus the recruiter I talked to told me that if you're going in to truly fly, don't bother. Caught me off guard to say the least..Anyways, I recently talked to a recruiter again and they told me that today, if you don't have a degree or working on one you don't qualify at all...But if you have a degree in basket weaving and no flight experience, welcome aboard

Hope that gives you some insight into what to expect... Not sure if that answers your question but best of luck...
I'll be trying my hand again with the air force but it wont be for pilot

BJ

scotothedoublet · Post by **scotothedoublet** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:10 am

From what I understand, 50 % through on aircrew selection is normal. So what's up with ppl with short legs? Years past you weren't accepted if your legs were too long to eject from a T Bird. Be patient, the Forces recruiting process is brutally slow. Congrats and good luck.

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:31 pm

scotothedoublet wrote:From what I understand, 50 % through on aircrew selection is normal. So what's up with ppl with short legs? Years past you weren't accepted if your legs were too long to eject from a T Bird. Be patient, the Forces recruiting process is brutally slow. Congrats and good luck.

Short legs affect helo pilots. Everyone must be able to fly every aircraft, or at least have the body geometry to fit in them.

144 people per year are put through Moose Jaw on basic flying training, so that's probably pretty close to how many would be recruited. That number includes remusters from other trades and of course DEOs and Charm school grads and on occasion, CEOTP applicants.

As for the flight experience, that doesn't mean jack in the military. Everyone with wings on their chest is trained to the same level regardless of previous flight experience. I've seen guys with 2000+ hrs fail out of the military, bad habits can be hard to break and military flying is quite different from civvie flying.

Pyleosnow · Post by **Pyleosnow** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:00 pm

does that 144 include thor foreign pilots that go through as well or is it just the number of canadians?

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:12 pm

Pyleosnow wrote:does that 144 include thor foreign pilots that go through as well or is it just the number of canadians?

It includes the foreign pilots, but there's only a small number of them. In the year that I was there, there was 6 Danish guys and 6 Italians, the rest of the students were Cdn. I think the Hungarians send their guys there now for the BFT, they used to only come for the Hawk course.

So if I had to guess at the number recruited every year, I'd say 100-120.

ice ice baby · Post by **ice ice baby** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:51 pm

I believe you can still join the forces as pilot WITHOUT a degree. You just need a college diploma, and a commercial licence. Should the forces decide at any point during your obligatory period that they would want you to finish your degree I think you'd have too. As when you join up you've got to tell them that you are willing to finish it.

flynbutcher · Post by **flynbutcher** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:10 pm

Last I heard there was an $80000 signing bonus, that was a couple of years ago. Anybody know if it is still there?

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:39 pm

ice ice baby wrote:I believe you can still join the forces as pilot WITHOUT a degree. You just need a college diploma, and a commercial licence. Should the forces decide at any point during your obligatory period that they would want you to finish your degree I think you'd have too. As when you join up you've got to tell them that you are willing to finish it.

That is called CEOTP, Continuing Education Officer Training Plan and under that plan you have 9 years to show progress towards a degree. The CF wants degreed officers, either DEO or ROTP, so they will not recruit officers without degrees unless there is a short fall in recruiting certain trades. In any case, a College Diploma and a CPL are not required to be hired under CEOTP.

flynbutcher wrote:Last I heard there was an $80000 signing bonus, that was a couple of years ago. Anybody know if it is still there?

It wasn't a signing bonus, that would be pretty dumb considering that not everyone they hire actually makes it to wings, a few fail out on the way.

It was a re-signing bonus for trained pilots that were coming up to the end of their initial contract (CF trained that is since civvie quals don't mean squat in the mob).

scotothedoublet · Post by **scotothedoublet** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:37 pm

Short legs affect helo pilots. Everyone must be able to fly every aircraft, or at least have the body geometry to fit in them.

Those must have been some short legs. So everyone can fit in the Hawk 200?

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:23 am

scotothedoublet wrote:Short legs affect helo pilots. Everyone must be able to fly every aircraft, or at least have the body geometry to fit in them.

Those must have been some short legs. So everyone can fit in the Hawk 200?

Not necessarily, I'm 5'7" and my leg length was right on the lower limit. It depends on your geometry, if you've got long legs then you'll be fine even if you're 5'4".

It's a Hawk 115 and yes, everyone should be able to fit in it.

scotothedoublet · Post by **scotothedoublet** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:49 am

I had a buddy who was trying to switch from 130's to 18's but his upper legs were too long for the Hawk. He's pretty tall though.

In any event, Hollywood, don't grow or shrink, be patient and I think you'll have a blast.

hollywood · Post by **hollywood** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:19 pm

The ones that failed the leg testing where told that the length from the hip bone to the tip of your big toe was one inch to short to meet the standards. The one that failed the ECG was told her heart wasent "loud" enough on the ECG, and was sent off for further testing.

With regards to entry plans, the only ones accepted now are ROTP where they pay for your college or you are sent off to RMC, and DEO where already have your Degree. No more Cont. Education plan for a while I was told. Myself have a 2 year diploma from Coastal / UCFV and am not currently enroled to complete my degree. I have a recruiter friend, who told me the biggest factor on the review borad is what your personal recruiter says about you. A number is given with regards to your overal character / personal drive , as well as a number formulated with a computer with regards to your grades since grade 10.
All in all with the cutbacks, I think they just resort to pulling names out of a hat now......

homerj · Post by **homerj** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:39 am

I think if your brown it helps!

scotothedoublet · Post by **scotothedoublet** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:14 pm

Just like with your mom...idiot.

C-MIKE · Post by **C-MIKE** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:13 am

whats the contract time like i head you have to sign up for 10yrs ?

scotothedoublet · Post by **scotothedoublet** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:39 pm

There's a Sea King pilot on this forum that can probably say for sure but from what I've heard it's a 7 year contract after you recieve your wings and that process itself can take 3-5 years...so 10-12 yrs would be my guess.

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:14 pm

scotothedoublet wrote:There's a Sea King pilot on this forum that can probably say for sure but from what I've heard it's a 7 year contract after you recieve your wings and that process itself can take 3-5 years...so 10-12 yrs would be my guess.

Correctomundo.

7 years restricted release after you get your wings. It took 5 years to get my wings with all the training delays, and there will be delays, count on it. So I'll have 12 years in before I can leave the CF.

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:07 pm

They are training 73 Canadians and 17 foreigners this year in Moose Jaw(For the Basic Flight Training Course).

As well the multi-engine school in Portage la Prairie is closing in August for a year and a half so I cant see them hiring too many in the next little while.

Moose Jaw slots are currently filled until at least mid 2007. This is because they hired a bunch in 2003/2004 with about 40 under CEOTP.

If your lucky enough to get in your going to be waiting a while.

Pyleosnow · Post by **Pyleosnow** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:30 pm

Ground pilot, i was just curious as to why they were shutting down the multi school for 1.5 years. Is it just due to the fact that there is an over abundance of multi pilots right now? Also does this mean anyone going moose jaw who doesnt go fighter will be in helo, or will they hold some back for when the multi school re opens?

flynbutcher · Post by **flynbutcher** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:32 pm

Do we still have an Air Force

Adanac · Post by **Adanac** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:54 pm

What I would like to know is if the Forces are so short of pilots and delays in training are not getting enough pilots through.. why not get some reserve pilots going? Not enough of those? Hire guys. I can speak for myself and say that I would be more than happy to fly for the forces part time. I have 6000+ hrs and expearence flying across north america. I am sure that if even 10% of the commercial pilot population would be willing to help out, that would be a big boost to the number of pilots the forces could take advantage of.

Just a thought.

RegForce guys, what do you think?

Adanac

disco · Post by **disco** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:42 pm

Adanac,

I've often had the same thought as you on that one and I think it comes down to this...

Pretty much all of our bases are in far-removed locations where there really isn't a ready supply of civvie pilots. Doubt there are many commercial pilots kickin' around in Cold Lake, Bagotville or even Trenton. I suppose Borden might be an exception but I think that is just whirly birds.

scotothedoublet · Post by **scotothedoublet** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:27 pm

If they don't have the resources to train their full-time pilots, how would they train reservists?

CH124 Driver · Post by **CH124 Driver** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:22 am

It's a shortage of technicians as well, in fact there's been a recovering towards the preferred manning level for pilots.

As for bringing people in, I don't think that would work all that well. Here in Shearwater there's people waiting, but to bring in someone to fill a gap would just further block up the training system. How many civvie helicopter pilots know how to do Helicopter Controlled Approaches (HCA's) to ships. Hint, it has nothing to do with TACAN, VOR, ILS, or GPS. How many civvie pilots are qualified to land on Frigates or Destroyers? Or how about flying low level on NVGs? None, so to train a civvie will result in training delays similar to what us junior co-pilots are experiencing now.

Military flying is quite different, we do a little more than just fly people around. To train a civvie pilot to do the missions would be just as long to take a new pilot off the pipe and train them up to Aircraft Capt. That's why 90% of reservist pilots in the CF are retired Regular Force members.

Pyleosnow, they're shutting down the MES as well as PFT while Kelowna Flightcraft sets up shop. The reason the helo school is going to continue business as usual is because we own the Jet Rangers and just leased them out to Bombardier. So with PFT shut down as well, I wouldn't expect to see a whole lot in the way of pilots recruited for the next few years, if they are it'll be guys that are eligible for PFT bypasses (Aviation Grads from certain recognized colleges), and they'll go straight to Moose Jaw then helo or jet, probably helo.