Q400 question

[BingBong]

I heard from someone that Wabusk was doing it

[2775PSI]

...

[teacher]

.......................and the bar gets lowered again. Find a non union shop that will do the work cheaper.

It's funny that in one thread Jazz is cheap, pilots are poor and the company sucks and in another Jazz is over priced and we make too much money. Jazz can't be both depending on what we're debating.

Having said all that the CPA runs until at least 2020 for 125 aircraft, this would just mean reduced expansion. Now having said THAT we've yet to see the actual press release so all these comments on an anonymous board are just that, comments. I'll be relieved or up set when I read the real thing.

[jazzbeat]

.......................and the bar gets lowered again. Find a non union shop that will do the work cheaper

Maybe it's time for us to look in the mirror... We have been trying to pull to Jazz every aircraft there is at AC for the last 10 years... We are now flying the Skyservice aircraft for 50k in the right seat...

So I guess it's ok when we are doing it but it's bad when others are doing it to us...

WE ARE ALSO PART of the race to the bottom probably even one of the best car in that race...

[Pourdu_fun]

.......................and the bar gets lowered again. Find a non union shop that will do the work cheaper

Maybe it's time for us to look in the mirror... We have been trying to pull to Jazz every aircraft there is at AC for the last 10 years... We are now flying the Skyservice aircraft for 50k in the right seat...

So I guess it's ok when we are doing it but it's bad when others are doing it to us...

WE ARE ALSO PART of the race to the bottom probably even one of the best car in that race...

Jazzbeat, maybe you should contact your LEC rep and ask him to explain to you what is Status Pay.

Pourdu

[jazzbeat]

Pourdu,

That's alway the type of answer I get when I talk about it at Jazz

Ok spin it as a status pay issue if you want but it remains that the guy flying it is making 50k.

same aircraft with same year of service at Transat would be over 100k and at Ac probably 150k

Race to the bottom I call it...

Pourdu you are exactly what I was talking about : it's ok when we are doing it we have a good reason, but when it's somebody else doing it to us it's not the same thing...

[RFN]

WRONG

The guy flying the 757 in the right seat will be making approx. 100k.

He will be sharing it with the rest of the F/Os, instead of keeping it all for himself.

[mduffy]

How do the wages at Jazz on the 757 compare to the wages at Skyservice?
How do the wages at Jazz on the RJ compare to what they were at Air Canada?
How much did Jazz offer to fly the Embraer for relative to what Air Canada flies them for?

Does anyone have this data? These answers would be more useful to this debate.

[teacher]

Seriously Jazzbeat are you that dense that status pay has to be explained to you again? It's unreal that this topic is once again being debated. Yes the Jazz crews flying the 757 are being paid less than at Sky Service no this isn't lowering the bar as Jazz is charging $150 per hour (or so) for the use of the Captain and 60% (or so) of that for the FO. Please find one of the million threads explaining status pay on this board, PLEASE!!!

The LARGE majority of pilots at Jazz prefer the status pay system and if AC and ACPA were to adopt this system it would be a huge boost to their bottom line.

[Amateur Turbines]

I'm glad that you are happy with your new status pay.

I personally think that 50K a year at a regional airline like jazz is a reasonable salary for an FO ON A DASH 8 not on a 757. Status pay only brought you up to what you should have been getting paid before.

IMHO

[Localizer]

FO's made over fifty before the 57? .. FO's top out in the high seventies thanks to the 57? I don't get the argument?

[DanJ]

The LARGE majority of pilots at Jazz prefer the status pay system and if AC and ACPA were to adopt this system it would be a huge boost to their bottom line.

That's probably because the vast majority of them are more junior than the pilots flying the 757, and thus are getting a raise for doing what they've been doing.

[Fred Skunk]

The 757 did not bring the FO's salary to the high 70's. At the current rates an 11 year FO won't make over 70 without over time.

[teacher]

The system works regardless of what arguement you use. The fact that over 20 training events take place everytime a top end Captain retires is rediculous and expensive. If folks flew what they wanted and didn't chase dollars the training savings alone would be massive.

[Amateur Turbines]

Teacher, I'm not arguing against status pay. At some organizations it works very well. At others not so much.

I know I'm stirring the pot but seriously do you really think status pay works in a mainly regional focused organization.

[teacher]

Why not? I do agree that it skews the numbers when a limited amount of heavier jets enters the fleet like at Jazz with the '57 however the end result remains the same. Fewer training events and less moving between types. Some pretty junior guys got the '57 as well as very senior. It could have gone all senior but why change types etc for a type rating when it may affect your family life and so on. IF and that's a big IF the '57 stays it'll be a lot of the same guys flying it and very little jumping around. That in it's self is huge savings and stability in the work force.

[Amateur Turbines]

I totally agree with you Teacher, stability is what status pay does afford.....but at what cost?

I'll tell you what, the lowest paid 757 drivers in the WORLD.

Not everyone is going to understand status pay. Other organizations can now point to you and say "Look at what these guys are doing it for!".

The system may not be right but there is a system and paying peanuts for 57 drivers is just wrong!

Not that there is anything I can do about it anyways just venting a bit.

I'm out.

[El Comat]

Amateur Turbines,

Jazz is "doing it" (flying 757s) for $155/hour captain wages, and FO wages around 60-70% of that. Jazz charges that rate to TC, but takes the difference between the 757 and the DH8/RJ pay rates and shares it among the entire pilot group. 1500 people get a small raise instead of 80 people getting a big raise.

EC

[mbav8r]

Amateur turbines, likewise companies around the world that operate Dash and RJ can point to Jazz and ask to be paid 120,000 to fly them. Then the companies operating 57's who try and lower their rates will have the pilot's refusing to fly them for what a dash pilot makes.

[hypoxic]

I heard AC was buying 5 400's from Jazz and more from Bombardier. ACPA wants to fly them!

[teacher]

[jazzbeat]

Yep that is exacly one of the reason I am having trouble working at Jazz. There is absolutely no debate. What ever the JALPA says we all have to agree... They say black, we all yell black...

Status pay great: We took good paying jobs (100 -150k) and created 1000 poor paying jobs... what's next in 2020 Georgian will take our jobs to create 1000 more jobs paid 37000 instead of 32 000... oh but I guess it's ok cause they all got a raise... following me.

We tried to get the Embraers and A320 to Jazz in 2003... Wow I bet that was also ok cause we would have gotten a raise...

That is exactly what got the FO in the US regionals at 18k a year...

That is the definition of the race to the bottom

Wake up guys, it's not because WE are doing it that it is right for our future and our profession

[timbuck]

He do have a point.

[Chuck Yeagermister]

I cannot come to grips with this status pay either. It`s not spreading the wealth, WE MAKE 50-60 GRAND FLYING A BOEING 757! This is wrong very wrong!

[UnoPompero]

. next time I am in YUL remind me to slap you