The importance of having a degree

[LegoMan]

10,000 hours is the number it takes to become the best that one can possibly be. If I am hiring a pilot most likely a 5,000 hour pilot with a degree will not only be more of an asset to me but I can pay him less than I would a 10,000 hour pilot and still be able to train him and have him fly the plane the way I want him/her to, where as a 10,000 hour pilot is used to flying the way they are and will not change or become better at that point.

[Zatopec]

What's your degree in?

Aeronautical science and aviation weather.

[. ._]

Is that a B.A., B.Sc., B. Sc. with a Dmet? B.Asc., B. quoi?

[scopiton]

...

[a340x]

IMHO the more degrees a pilot has, the less employable he is, as a line pilot.

Go get a Phd in Physics and then apply to Buffalo. Let me know how that works out for you.

Looking at two identical guys, except one has a degree and 5,000TT and one has a high school diploma and 10,000TT, I'd hire the guy with 10k hours.

PS I have an engineering degree from Queen's U. Very useful in just about everything except working as a line pilot. Nobody needs an educated line pilot.

PPS If you want to get hired by AC, your money and time would be better spent on becoming a visible minority

I wouldn't say that nobody needs a non educated line pilot. A captain is someone who has to have certain skills in order to work well with crew and passengers and i believe a degree can teach them a PART of that. I am not saying that pilots with degrees are better than others without, I am just curious in knowing your reasoning behind saying "nobody needs an educated line pilot."

[termerair]

One point no one yet has mentioned is the social development and fun that occurs between 18-22 at University. The thought of trading in those memories for 4 years of working in the real world scares me.

I couldn't agree more...! Very wise statement!

T.

[a340x]

One point no one yet has mentioned is the social development and fun that occurs between 18-22 at University. The thought of trading in those memories for 4 years of working in the real world scares me.

I couldn't agree more...! Very wise statement!

T.

I second that!

[Zatopec]

Is that a B.A., B.Sc., B. Sc. with a Dmet? B.Asc., B. quoi?

Bachelor of science in aeronautical science with an applied meteorology minor... ça.

[. ._]

OK, yeah. THAT bachelor combo could get ya some cash. I guess there are a few out there.

I know a dude getting a Dmet at Dalhousie right now. The placement rates out of that program are great. Almost all of the graduates end up at Environment Canada. That's another one that might be OK.

Sorry if I was being a bit of a dick Zatopec, but I just thought other people out there might benefit from more specific info.

-istp

[Boreas]

Just buy one from India.

One point no one yet has mentioned is the social development and fun that occurs between 18-22 at University. The thought of trading in those memories for 4 years of working in the real world scares me.

+3

[Bede]

One of the guys who I respected most as a pilot at Jazz has a grade 10 education. The way he explained it, "when guys were in school, I was building seniority". I love that line.

[beast]

better hope that guy doesn't lose his medical

[mattedfred]

better hope that guy doesn't lose his medical

If this guy is still at Jazz then he will be fine if he loses his medical.

[LAX]

One point no one yet has mentioned is the social development and fun that occurs between 18-22 at University. The thought of trading in those memories for 4 years of working in the real world scares me.

Definitely.
Half the stuff I learned in college had nothing to do with school work.
+4

[Darkwing Duck]

I thought of going straight to a flight school for my CPL and various tickets after. I also thought of going to an aviation college for those same tickets. In the end I thought why waste my time on unneccesarry courses that do not apply to flying. Looking back on it now I realize that I should of went to school for those unneccesary courses and pocket an education. I do not regret my decision. It is just a "what would it of hurt?" thing.

There are alot of people out there who are very wise, succesful and intelligent without any form of education ie high school or university. These people are very good at steet and common sense and just know the in's and out's of life. Then there are people with degrees up the whazoo who cannot think past their nose when it comes to common sense.

Not saying education is bad, I would not want a heart speciallist working on me who took a weekend night course at McGrill University (Not McGill). I am just saying that sometimes experience and common sense get you further in the world then a piece of paper hanging on the wall. I know of a billionaire, self made, who came from a small 1 room house who ran a small furiture factory his father started.

Then again, that piece of paper also lets people know you have the ability to work hard and show you can commit to something for an extended period of time and are willing to learn. To me it comes down to who fits my profile of what I need filled for that vacant position.

[Finnegan]

On one hand, someone who has furthered their education shows some determination, willingness to learn, and should be relatively intelligent. On the other hand, I've know 'professional' students whose common sense was severely lacking and had to hire someone to change a light bulb.
Pilots do need to be intelligent, but they also have to possess enough common sense to make good decisions, sometimes very quickly.
I've been responsible in the past for determining whether applicants should or should not be considered. With some, a short conversation is enough. Case in point: First conversation, potential pilot candidate asked, "Have you heard of . Yeager?", to which I replied, "Yes.??....". To which he responded, "Well I'm his protoge". Watched him pretty carefully after that and his arrogance was far superior to his capabilities. Terminated before potentially injuring himself and/or others. Oh, and he was a recent University grad.
By the same token, had another whose flying experience was minimal, but had oodles of experience running heavy equipment. Never once did I see the airplane flying him and he enjoyed a good career.

[Finnegan]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. If you're investing time and stupid money on preparing for a flying career, it is critically important to have a fallback career in the wings. Financially, being an employed pilot is often slightly better than being an unemployed one and when we're young, we'll accept crappy conditions and pay just to get airborne. This is commendable from a love of flying perspective, but it's hard on the wife and kids. (they tend to want to eat and wear clothing, sometimes simultaneously)

[Finnegan]

Just finished reading some more posts and have learned that, as a pilot with 10000+ hours, I am apparently now as good as I'll ever be - I guess it's all downhill from here. I've always been under the impression that I learn something every time I fly. When I listen to other pilots' exploits, I usually learn something - it's often just one more thing a pilot should not do. I've seen 5000 hr pilots do some incredibly stupid things, too. Everyone's different and it's tough to put a number on good, solid experience and capability. 10000 hrs with a couple of violations and a few avoidable crashes doesn't look anywhere near as good as 5000 hours without the crap. And vice versa.
We start developing habits very early in our careers. A lot of these habits are products of our work environment via schedules, peer pressure, etc., whether it be overloading a 185 on floats, declaring a fuel emergency to get in under limits, or, well you get the picture.
Whatever you choose to do with an aviation career, do it with integrity, mindful of safety, and with respect for others. At the end of the day, you'll earn much more respect for refusing to do the wrong thing than for doing the wrong thing and bragging about it.

[xsbank]

Going to uni teaches you how to be a critical thinker, to analyze statistical crap and structure an academic paper. Sometimes it teaches you something useful like how to design a network or a bridge. If you are curious about the world, uni might be a way to expose yourself to more of it. If you want to be something special when you grow up, medical or law or engineering schools etc. might be a good idea.

Uni rounds out your life and gives you some self-satisfaction, at least. It also teaches you how to manage money and debt.

Do what you need to do to float your own boat.

[Dockjock]

These threads always seem to find a place for those who need to convince themselves that school isn't necessary. To answer the actual question I'll chip in that no, it's not necessary. In fact the requirements to be a commercial pilot in Canada are pathetically basic. What are there, 3 tests? And how many companies running seminars that basically GIVE YOU the answers? So if you're a lowest-common-denominator type, and want to approach your profession with the attitude that less is always more then great. Don't go to school. You are too streetwise for that and you've CRACKED THE CODE! WIN!

Always, always there is the comparison between the hypothetical 5000-hr degree-less underdog pilot "flying bush and off strip" who rises up to smite the smug, self satisfied, white collared but ultimately (despite his degree) ignorant lout whose only apparent skill is flying an ILS on autopilot. Fellas, it's a false construct. There are scores and scores of airline pilots in Canada that did both. Played the underdog, pretended with Buffalo Joe (and his type, they're all over the north...and south for that matter) that they were a good 'ol boy who jes drives a tractor, or likes fishin, or loves nothing more than a hard day's work or whatever. Then, when it comes time to pack up and leave the shithole, they dust off their higher education and join urban society once again with a large airline or something else.

My advice, get the degree or diploma. It will help you. But realize it is viewed with a strange combination of envy and contempt by those who don't have it, and act accordingly when around those people.

/arrogance