Transat CBA

[Mig29]

I see, thanks 60N30W!
Well, I guess I would want a raise too, but at a same time I would like to make sure that everyone joins on the same terms after me one day, whether that happens today or 3 years from now. Because in reality I would be voting for Level B payscale for new guys....I'm not trying to put any guilt in anyone, that's only my stand. Give nothing and get improvements. If it means "status quo" pay then get some non monetary improvements. Because honestly this is how companies "get to us" and then we wonder 5 years later how the heck are the guys getting on A330 with 50K/year? Just an example....there are many others out there.

Having said that I think TS is a very good place to work and I did apply already, still haven't heard a word from them.....and no my french is not an issue

Regards

[60N30W]

Mig29,

Just want to clear up a couple of things, on top of the monetary issues we did get lots of improvements in the non-monetary world.

As to the "B" scale, think you are wrong on that one. Pay scales change every few years ( contract time ) most of the time they go up, sometimes they go down and sometimes levels are added. When I started it was $45 a year, then it went up, now it has come back down a bit. However what has changed as a benefit for new hires is we have done away with the training pay, used to be you were payed $500 a week until you were on line and finished line indoc, now you are on salary from day one.

A "B" scale involves people being hired at the same time to do the same job for different pay scales, for example a carrier pays its XXX based pilots one salary and the pilots based in YYY another salary, even though they fly the same plane, on the same routes. You need two payscales in your contract ( applicable to same aircraft) to have a "B" scale. At TSC we have one payscale, applicable to both A310 and A330. If/When the narrow body aircraft are introduced we will have a narrow body payscale. Again not a "B" scale since the job is somewhat different.

You will never be able to make sure future hires join under the same terms as you do, the company and our industry change and hence terms change. Maybe new hires in the next contract will get more in the next contract, then you do when you join. Keep sending the resumes if you are interested.

You need to look at a contract as a package and not focus on one or two items.

Regards,

60N30W

[Apache64_]

In the words of Joey Tribiani "Let me get this straight. He got you to beg to sleep with him, he got you to say he never has to call you again, and he got you thinking this was a great idea?" Personally, I think you guys took a step backwards on this deal. Sacrifice so much for the first two years and what did you gain? A 2% pay raise, a possible contract being returned back to you, and salary on day one for training. Does the gain really offset the loss? To me it seems you have set the standard that you are willing to cut your salary if the company comes to you and says "Hey we need you to take pay cut so we can get this contract, no biggie eh, you done it before. Sure the current boys in the group hopped up and received a raise, and yeah at this moment it wont affect you and it only affects those that come behind you...But I always thought that when you negotiate your contract you negotiate for the future and that includes those who will come behind you. Same as in the future, it will be those that come behind you who will be voting on your future.

Sorry if I got anything wrong, and I maybe posting with less than full information, but thats what it seems to me at this point in time.


Cheers

[Mig29]

60N30W,

I am not accusing anyone here for this pay cut, I just want to be clear on that
It's a "collective" agreement so no individual is to praise or fault here. You are right, TS does not have a B scale, I didn't express my self correctly. But pilots have gone backwards unfortunately this time. Any time you cut the salaries, now someone else has to work twice as hard to get it back. In this day and age when a small if any raise is given to employees (which in reality is what TS offered as you said) it is almost impossible to get 20K/year rise!! It just does not happen in big companies with a large employee groups.

You mentioned training, where guys get a salary now from day one, instead of $2,000/month (4 weeks of $500). I think even there guys went a step back, as this new hiree is still short 15K/year since he's pay will be 50K. (if training takes 2 months or so). Where if you put up with it originally, you start at $69K after that, and it gets even better next year! So I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me....the old guy is ahead of the race and the new pilot will never catch up in the race.

What is really funny is that when it comes down to negotiations, we need some professional support. We had the same thing happen at one of my former workplaces, where guys voted to give up a good/better thing for 3-4% raise, and now we will never get it back. Why? Because they all said it won't affect them, only new hires or junior pilots. I don't get it

Regards

[chopsticks]

It's good that Transat pilots are now paid in full during their training. However, I'd have a hard time supporting the $19,000 pay reduction for new hires. As mentioned before, this is something that will be very difficult to get back, and pilots with 4,000 hours of experience, flying a wide body airliner are worth more than $50,000. I would likely have sacrificed a 2% increase at the old pay scale to keep the starting pay at $70,000, but I guess that's just me.

[TFTMB heavy]

Air Transat pilots do have professional help, it's called ALPA.

All pilots hired after the signing of the new CBA will be on the new pay scale, the first two years have taken a drop, it's all about give and take during negotiations. Considering all the changes in the new CBA new hires will be better off in the long run; as an example you will not be on reserve more than one month at a time, before it was two. If the narrow body operation takes off we will be hiring and their seniority will grow, the new entry level salaries are all part of the big picture.

No one has to come work here, wages are not bottom of the barrel even after the drop and conditions are good. Look at the per diems, I can't spend it all even when I try my best!

[Niodatchi]

How come nobody talks about the gains we made with the "Employement garantee" from Transat A.T., wich is probably the biggest gain in this contract!! Transat A.T. garantees to Air Transat that 60% of the flights originating in Canada will be attributed to Air Transat. And of all that flying they garantee us 50% on Wide body aircrafts. That means that as Transat A.t. grows in Canada, we can expand too and benefit from Transat A.T.'s success!

[.......]

How come nobody talks about the gains we made with the "Employement garantee" from Transat A.T., wich is probably the biggest gain in this contract!! Transat A.T. garantees to Air Transat that 60% of the flights originating in Canada will be attributed to Air Transat. And of all that flying they garantee us 50% on Wide body aircrafts. That means that as Transat A.t. grows in Canada, we can expand too and benefit from Transat A.T.'s success!

I guess it's because we don't seek the attention that much, Nio...

And it's not only originating in Canada, but also destined to Canadian destinations...

[jazzbeat]

The Employement garantee was pretty easy to give since I think that within the next few years Air Transat will be sold the same way Jazz was and that means with a nice CPA.

Transat A.T will then make a bunch of money and after the CPA period is over will make you compete for work....

hope you will have better luck then us.....

[Mig29]

Guys,
I think you made some good improvements in your contract. Heck, I don't even know, since no one cares to post it here

My point is, never drop the salary on the expense of your (junior or new) colleagues so you can gain peanuts. I mean, do you want to create a gap like AC where guys start at $38K and end at $200K + ???

Another item is your pay for training as I mentioned already, do the math...you lose 19K/year to gain a $4,000 or 5,000 max difference (for first 2 months until you get a PPC) and then you still trail behind in year 2, by another 14K that is to be precise...so you lose in first 2 years over 30K? Why? Are couple % in the next 4 years worth it? I'm lost or my math really sucks

You mention scope clause that protects you for min 60% of AT flying vs giving it to others charters. I would be striving for 100% protection as it is after all YOUR flying and YOUR airline vacation packages. I know it's not going to happen, but it's funny how something that ultimately belongs to you folks, people twist and turn around to make it as if you should be glad to get it in the first place, and then take some away.....is anyone following me?

Or should I re-post this little clip again? (just ignore AC/Jazz/SkyRegional part in there)

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7289413/

Cheers, and by the way, I still think its a great place to work with some great people, great fleet and beautiful destination. I wish you guys long and prosperous careers there! I mean it!

[WetJet]

Jazzbeat, the rumors you hear of Air Transat being sold are only the flavour of the week stuff that Jazz management floats around to keep staff interested in working there. There is no expiry period on our agreement. Plus the way it's written, I undersand that even if Transat sells AT, the agreement is between Transat and our ALPA group, so our jobs would be protected. We learned from what's happening at Jazz.

Mig29, there will always be seasonal swings, and other carriers working for Transat, but a baseline of about 320 jobs (100% of us here today) are protected if Transat stays the same size. The MOST Air Transat ever flew was around 75% of Transats work so this is still a historic start for us. To bring in a boatload of new 737 drivers in at 70K a year when every other airline in Canada is paying 35-50 wasn't going to happenen. I don't like it at all either, but blame the market?

Let's also mention that the 8% salary increase goes along with a reduction in the number of hours flown, down 5 hours a month. The HOURLY increase is 14.25% over 4 years, or over 3.5% a year. More pay for less work is fine by me. Year 9 captains will top out around $200 per hour.

Our new deal is not perfect, but I believe now more than I did before this deal that I'll be with this company until I retire. Isn't that what we all hope for?

[Mig29]

As I said in the end, AT seems to be a really good place to work and I wish you guys all a happy retirement down the road!

À votre santé!

[.......]

The Employement garantee was pretty easy to give since I think that within the next few years Air Transat will be sold the same way Jazz was and that means with a nice CPA.

Transat A.T will then make a bunch of money and after the CPA period is over will make you compete for work....

hope you will have better luck then us.....

If you say so, Bud...!