757 for Hawaii?

[Rotten Apple #1]

Beast, I think the less humorous and more accurate reasoning behind some of the responses challenging the posts of these alleged WJ pilots, is that we all (minus a few) realize that our survival and growth as a profitable corporation depends on us all rowing in the same direction. Our pilots are leaders at WJ; we need them to be on-board with management's decisions, and provide an example to our inflight colleagues, who may be (as a rule) younger and less experienced in the numerous 'swamps' out there that will ensnare the unwary. Seeding doubt about the reasonings behind corporate initiatives is counter-productive. If we are to avoid the fate of so many fallen airlines before us (and be in a position to provide the long term employment that has escaped so many airline employees), we must be vigilant: culture, product, costs...

Not Koolaid; merely the stark reality of the law of the economic jungle.

[JestWet]

Johnny, sounds like you've been around the block a bit & you do have some very good points.
One thing I've really noticed in my time here is the way that other WJers jump all over anyone who speaks out or shows any opposition to the directions the company is being taken.
I agree with you: protect the culture at all costs. However, too many yes-men can make for an unhealthy environment as well.
There is never anything wrong with a healthy debate.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Yea JestWet, some of us, me for sure, are like battered children (is that PC acceptable?) and are overly sensitive. Perhaps we should have emphasized that in the interview...

We all have bad days, and all are less than positive at times. We used to have a guy (DB) who would sprinkle his various chats with phrases like "stay out of the swamp", or this beauty: "you need a check up, from the neck up"; perhaps our comments here are a ham fisted attempt to replicate his intentions.

Anyway, while it's not "All good" as some would say, it is "Mostly good". Cheers.

[JestWet]

Agreed

[biffnaked]

JestWet..you're worried about how it may affect culture in the future? Well you are doing a real good job at getting things going. It is selfish guys on the line like you that give the group a bad name.. Do what you have been hired to do, and let the people in the office do what they need to do. As much as your selfish educated self might think that there is no plan and this is a big bend over the pilot thing, someone with an education and all sorts of data has decided this is what needs to be done and it is going to happen. The fact that you are concerned about your precious upgrade before the interests of the other 7899 employees you work with blows my mind. You obviously slipped thru the cracks. It is guys like you that will kill our amazing culture before any decision the guys on the 5th floor do. Give your head a shake you bum.

Wow, way to keep it civil. Smooth move there, chief, the classic (and cliche) "koolaid beatdown" of anyone who dares question the omnipotent "teal executive team" or suggest that maybe they disagree with something.

Stereotypical response to someone who dares have an opinion. Guys like you make the rest of us WJers look like a bunch of zombified idiots.\

Keep drinking the koolaid buddy, I'll agree it tastes good, but take a break once in a while, and don't chastise someone else for not blindly following the party line.

[SilvrSurfr]

JestWet..you're worried about how it may affect culture in the future? Well you are doing a real good job at getting things going. It is selfish guys on the line like you that give the group a bad name.. Do what you have been hired to do, and let the people in the office do what they need to do. As much as your selfish educated self might think that there is no plan and this is a big bend over the pilot thing, someone with an education and all sorts of data has decided this is what needs to be done and it is going to happen. The fact that you are concerned about your precious upgrade before the interests of the other 7899 employees you work with blows my mind. You obviously slipped thru the cracks. It is guys like you that will kill our amazing culture before any decision the guys on the 5th floor do. Give your head a shake you bum.

Wow. The westjet miracle in action.....time to down some more koolaid guys...

Hmm, i wonder which airline you work for?
It's not about drinking coolaid buddy, it's called being "professional" and acting like one! If having pride in what I do and having great work ethics is called drinking cool aid then........BURP!!

By acting professional you mean like; "Give your head a shake you bum" and "You obviously slipped through the cracks"? Wow, that's a great way to motivate and encourage your fellow pilot in a possitive fashion. Keep it up.

Surfr

[JestWet]

Judging by Westbeach's past posts, he's not a pilot - at least not for WestJet.
Not sure where his hostility comes from but he certainly has a history of berating his fellow Avcanada posters.

[WJ700]

JestWet..you're worried about how it may affect culture in the future? Well you are doing a real good job at getting things going. It is selfish guys on the line like you that give the group a bad name.. Do what you have been hired to do, and let the people in the office do what they need to do. As much as your selfish educated self might think that there is no plan and this is a big bend over the pilot thing, someone with an education and all sorts of data has decided this is what needs to be done and it is going to happen. The fact that you are concerned about your precious upgrade before the interests of the other 7899 employees you work with blows my mind. You obviously slipped thru the cracks. It is guys like you that will kill our amazing culture before any decision the guys on the 5th floor do. Give your head a shake you bum.

Wow, way to keep it civil. Smooth move there, chief, the classic (and cliche) "koolaid beatdown" of anyone who dares question the omnipotent "teal executive team" or suggest that maybe they disagree with something.

Stereotypical response to someone who dares have an opinion. Guys like you make the rest of us WJers look like a bunch of zombified idiots.\

Keep drinking the koolaid buddy, I'll agree it tastes good, but take a break once in a while, and don't chastise someone else for not blindly following the party line.

We have a few of these guys. We have a few of the guy who think way the other way too. The trick is to ignore them and stay in the middle of the pack.

If the executive didn't want to hear an opinion, they wouldn't ask. Of course someone who hasn't been upgraded should be concerned about their upgrade.

[yycguy]

Of course someone who hasn't been upgraded should be concerned about their upgrade.

Thats the sad part about all of this. At least at Jazz I could speak my mind without fears of repercussions.

And I happen to strongly believe that healthy debate is what keeps our eyes open for new ideas, opportunities, and growth. But instead we compartmentalize to avoid poisoning the culture.

[Rotten Apple #1]

At least at Jazz...

Ya lost me after that. If you were looking for Jazz like employment, you probably made the wrong decision in coming here. No doubt, for the right reasons.

You are in fact able to speak your mind here. I've done it a number of times. I'm not sure what the "repercussions" were, as I have aspired only to be a line Captain. So far there have been no changes to my pay/working conditions/employment record, from what I know. Now if I was headed to the second floor, well, ...

Listen, if some one comes on here and says "Well, I hope Gregg wasn't lying...", expect a frothy response. Perhaps the management cadre routinely lied to you at your previous outfit. That is not the case here. Period. Not to mention the fact that GS has been in charge for what, six months? Give the guy a chance or lose whatever in your life that has made you so bloody negative!

But go ahead and post what you want. There will be no repercussions.

And WJ700 is right. One should be concerned about their upgrade. As in make sure you're competent at your job when the offer is made.

(No doubt a lot of us have flown with those high seniority FOs at union shops who demand no Captains fly OT, as that is delaying upgrades, only to have those same pilots fly OT once they're Captain. Perspective is everything.)

[DaveP]

Hi YYC,
I have personally not seen any repercussions from anyone bringing forward there concerns or suggestions. You will always get a response or opinion in these places especially if it's a complaint or perceived bitch with no facts or solutions. If you want a factual debate and an ear to listen, my door as well as Greg's door is always open. You can take that to the bank. Trust me, there is no trojan horse in these discussions.

Cheers,
Dave.

[buss]

Point to consider.

C3, SSV and sunwing all use/used foreign pilots. So does canjet and now (potentially) WJ. Difference is the first three also sent Canadians abroad. Canadian pilots were employed and taxes paid. Canjet hired german nationals due to no "available canadians" . WJ may be hiring Finnish pilots very soon.

We have fellow unemployed Canadian pilots out there. I understand this may be a short term agreement however, wj pilots should consider the present and future ramifications of this decision. We are all only 2-3 pilots removed from eachother. When decisions are made which potentially impact OUR industry we should take a breath and consider all options.

This 757 deal may benefit west jet but does it benefit the wj pilot? Does it benefit the Canadian pilot?

[KAG]

Buss, training a couple of 757 pilots for 9 a week contract doesn't make sound financial sense.
Trust me when I tell you our pilot group gave our company our blessing with this, and will be watched closely.

This is a short term contract, that may be a one off, it may lead to something more.
No need to panic.
Time will tell.

[yycguy]

Thanks for the reply Dave,

I think we are both on the same page, I don't have any gripes myself. I just don't like to see others getting slammed when they speak up for themselves, even if it is just on a web board...

[flyinhigh]

all options.
This 757 deal may benefit west jet but does it benefit the wj pilot? Does it benefit the Canadian pilot?

It does benefit the westjet pilot,

In the fact that it will take a min 10 weeks to train one pilot on the aircraft. Now you need to train at a minimum probably 10 guys to operate on this run. Each candidate will cost I am guessin in the 50K range to train, so now for those 10 guys at 50K thats how much. 500K gone, for a company to operate a 9 week(less than the time for training) stint, to possibly find out that this does not benefit the company at all and they now decide that they don't wanna due the run.

You do it with a wet lease, set a cost and its done, even if you don't make alot of money, you won't be in the hole.

Now to me this is just being smart.

If it works WJ buys the 57's, highers more pilots and everyone is happy.

If they crewed them now, it fails, company out X amount of money, they delay hiring in a way to try an recoup some cost, you don't get your upgrade/ or hired. Nah they're doing it right in my book.

Oh I don't work for WJ,

[turbo-prop]

Hopefully this doesn't affect plans, if this is the airline their using.


HELSINKI, Finland (Reuters) - Finnish Aviation Union (IAU) said some 900 of its members will begin a strike on Monday at 5 a.m. local time (0200 GMT) after a new wage deal was not reached on Sunday.

The strike of air transport technical staff will halt maintenance of aircraft and will hit operations of airlines such as Finnair, Finncomm and Scandinavian airline SAS's Blue1.

"Finnair will make every effort to operate normally, but delays and cancellations are possible," the Finnish national carrier said in a statement.

Both the IAU and employer's representative on Sunday evening turned down the state mediator Esa Lonka's proposal for a new wage deal.

*Reporting by Terhi Kinnunen, editing by Maureen Bavdek

[biffnaked]

Hi YYC,
I have personally not seen any repercussions from anyone bringing forward there concerns or suggestions. You will always get a response or opinion in these places especially if it's a complaint or perceived bitch with no facts or solutions. If you want a factual debate and an ear to listen, my door as well as Greg's door is always open. You can take that to the bank. Trust me, there is no trojan horse in these discussions.

Cheers,
Dave.

I know of two guys who would probably disagree, when 6 months after the agreement they got a nice paid vacation for "not selling the agreement properly to the pilot group" - paraphrased. Of course, this was before Greg, and the guy in his office was known to have a short temper for things not going his way.

Oh, and the people who get a "polite" call for a "conversation" from someone above your pay grade for remarks they make on the private WJ forum (that they aren't supposed to have access to btw)...

Dave, you are a nice guy, and you will do well in your position. This isn't directed at you or your predecessor (who was also highly regarded).

WJ pilots are scared to speak out, why do you think nobody runs for the wjpa positions? know that.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Dude, if nobody runs for the WJPA, then it's probably because they're like me and don't want to make the time commitment. Me, I'm lazy and selfish. And sometimes greedy. Volunteer? Maybe some other time. Just not now. Those guys got my respect. It has not been a path towards positions of higher pay etc. Just dudes doin' stuff.

[Rotten Apple #1]

I wish I had access to one or both sides of whatever story you're referring to. I might have used that to make my own independent interpretation of what it is you're talking about. Oh well. Do they still work at WJ, or were they fired?

[biffnaked]

Hey johnnyd, those guys on the wjpa have my respect too,I wasn't talking shit about them,fyi.

To answer your 2nd q, yeah, those guys still work here, but you ain't gonna see them doing anything but showing up for work anymore,I can guarantee that,and certainly not trying to help represent the pilots anymore,after the shitkicking they took for believing in their principles.

Maybe you should ask around to get the story,lots of guys know it.

[DaveP]

One thing for sure unless you were in the room we don't have both sides of the story. I've found that out to be true in a lot of my own dealings. I'm not aware of both sides myself. That should say something too.

As for the wjpa. I agree that it is not a popular job. These guys put in a lot of thankless hours dealing with a lot of stuff and sometimes the stuff seems to come from the same people. I wouldn't want that job either but I'm very thankful for the time and effort they do give. It's a tough job period.

Thanks for the kind words Biff. It's appreciated and coffee is on me if you swing by.

Cheers.

Dave.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Biff, take the man up on his offer and bring in some donuts with you for the ladies and gents up in his section of WJ world. I think it might be a good opportunity for you to get a different perspective on things that we don't deal with on the line.

Unfortunately I commute, and so I don't get or take the time to see those guys anymore. Once upon a time we checked in for our pairings at the hangar, so contact was easy and frequent (dispatchers and crew schedulers and flight standards and training, etc).

While I was thinking about your post last night, I recalled some guy stepping down from the association a couple of times in a row a couple of years ago (IIRC). I think that to succeed in WJPA and PACT affairs, you have to be more of a politician than simply the smartest guy in the room. But whatever, I let those that have the interest get involved in that stuff.

Off to finish the Halloween decorations.

[Inverted2]

Anyone hear if ACPA is going to grieve Westjet and the 757 like they did with Jazz?

[aviator2010]

Anyone hear if ACPA is going to grieve Westjet and the 757 like they did with Jazz?

that's funny ACPA is trying to protect their flying from two preditory charter operators and your gonna make jokes about it.

[Inverted2]

Sorry, I didn't know that Thomas Cook flying belonged to Air Canada. Thanks for clearing that one up for me.