Pilot in the Canadian Forces

[Ashbringer]

I think V2 is ok, as long as you can wear glasses to correct to 20/20.

I wouldn't trust the Recruiting Center on everything - especially if they told you "he informed me .... I would have to get laser eye surgery to enter the CF as a pilot." Better to find out the truth before you pay $4K for surgery, only to find out you're not eligible to apply anymore. RC's have in the past given out some very bad advice and inaccurate facts.

I don't think the term "bus driver" is meant to be derogatory. Civy guys are lucky enough to only have to worry about flying a plane and hence are 'drivers'. CF members have a massive scope of administrative and professional duties to attend to, and fly much less.

When I had my medical testing done, the medical staff told me that my sight was at V3 uncorrected. They also explained to me that I needed at least V2 uncorrected (but correctable to 20/20) to be eligible. I was then told by the medical staff in Toronto (not a recruiter) that if I were to get laser eye surgery I would be eligible to enter. They also gave me a list and informed me that only some laser procedures are accepted. (PRK, LASIK, and a few more).

As for your point on inaccurate RC's, I absolutely agree with that. When I first applied, it took me several weeks just to find out if the degree I was working towards was acceptable for direct entry. Half the recruiters I talked to said yes, half said no. Many recruiters that you talk to directly are not officers, and are thus misinformed regarding questions about officer entry. I found the only way to really get accurate answers is to find someone in the CF who is currently in the occupation that you desire, and speak to them.

[TheCheez]

As for your point on inaccurate RC's, I absolutely agree with that. When I first applied, it took me several weeks just to find out if the degree I was working towards was acceptable for direct entry. Half the recruiters I talked to said yes, half said no. Many recruiters that you talk to directly are not officers, and are thus misinformed regarding questions about officer entry. I found the only way to really get accurate answers is to find someone in the CF who is currently in the occupation that you desire, and speak to them.

This is really a shame. Recruiters are often the only interaction someone will have with the military. In many ways they are our public face at schools, events like the stampede and job fairs and should be getting it right and if they don't know there's plenty of tools they could be using to find out.

[Ashbringer]

As for your point on inaccurate RC's, I absolutely agree with that. When I first applied, it took me several weeks just to find out if the degree I was working towards was acceptable for direct entry. Half the recruiters I talked to said yes, half said no. Many recruiters that you talk to directly are not officers, and are thus misinformed regarding questions about officer entry. I found the only way to really get accurate answers is to find someone in the CF who is currently in the occupation that you desire, and speak to them.

This is really a shame. Recruiters are often the only interaction someone will have with the military. In many ways they are our public face at schools, events like the stampede and job fairs and should be getting it right and if they don't know there's plenty of tools they could be using to find out.

It certainly is a shame, I don't mean to speak negatively about recruiters, but the experiences I had were not pleasant. I only dealt with one particular recruiting office during my application process, and some separate medical staff in Toronto. This may be specific to this one location, but I was not impressed with the behaviour of the staff at all. I came in for the first time at the beginning of last year just to ask some questions regarding ROTP, and the recruiter I talked to acted basically as if he hated his life. He seemed very bothered, and I could sense he was eager for me to leave. On a second occasion I spoke to a different recruiter at the same location who kept checking his watch while I talked with him. He kept sighing every time I asked a question and every time he saw someone enter the office behind me. He was also making comments under his breath about how he had other things to do and the branch needed to close soon, etc. etc..

Most (if not all) of the information I found out regarding the Canadian Forces and entering as a pilot I researched myself, and spoke to people I knew who were further ahead in training. The information I was getting from the recruiting office was, for the most part, not true or else just made up by the recruiters because "well, thats what makes the most sense to me."

On the other hand, most of the officers at this location were, in fact, pilots who were working in recruiting as part of their ground tour. Unfortunately, they were usually tucked away in the back somewhere "busy" with other administrative work (or as one recruiter put it "Oh those pilots are always sleeping in the back"). All of the officers I spoke to were very professional and knowledgable, and seemed eager to help answer any questions. The medical staff I spoke with in Toronto were also full of accurate information and eager to help. I recommend to steer clear of the online chat available on the CF website, unless you have very simple question to ask. In my experiences, this was the worst place to get accurate information.

The recruitment process I found to be a very interesting experience indeed. If you want answers, find someone who's in the occupation you desire, and preferably who has entered in the same manner you wish to enter.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The reality is that a recruiting office posting is not career enhancing and it is a boring and tedious job, therefore many of the folks in the position are bottom third of the merit list slugs or coasting on a terminal posting. Also it is important to understand that the recruiting staff have no investment in your success. They do not work for the Air Force (or Navy, or Army) they work for the Recruiting Group section of the Military Personnel Command, so say screwing up someones enrolement, which subsequently makes a problem for you or the Air Force will not directly affect any recruiter and they do not have to listen to the wishes of the services. In the old days each service ran their own recruiting offices and answered to the chief of the Air Force, Army and Navy, so it was easier to hold organizations accountable. My advice is to triple check everything they say and don't believe anything that is not written down in official correspondance ( ie has a RDIMS reference, file number, or an e-mail with a Military rank and address (@forces.gc.ca)). Your file will not generally not move very quickly unless you hound them. When, not if, your file gets stuck and stops moving makes sure you understand what the hold up is and whether they are waiting on anything you need to provide and which they forgot to tell you. Do lots of research before your first visit to the recruiting centre and be polite but firm and clear in what you want. Ask early and often "what can I do to expidite the process".

[Bushav8er]

The reality is that a recruiting office posting is not career enhancing and it is a boring and tedious job, therefore many of the folks in the position are bottom third of the merit list slugs or coasting on a terminal posting. Also it is important to understand that the recruiting staff have no investment in your success. They do not work for the Air Force (or Navy, or Army) they work for the Recruiting Group section of the Military Personnel Command, so say screwing up someones enrolement, which subsequently makes a problem for you or the Air Force will not directly affect any recruiter and they do not have to listen to the wishes of the services. In the old days each service ran their own recruiting offices and answered to the chief of the Air Force, Army and Navy, so it was easier to hold organizations accountable. My advice is to triple check everything they say and don't believe anything that is not written down in official correspondance ( ie has a RDIMS reference, file number, or an e-mail with a Military rank and address (@forces.gc.ca)). Your file will not generally not move very quickly unless you hound them. When, not if, your file gets stuck and stops moving makes sure you understand what the hold up is and whether they are waiting on anything you need to provide and which they forgot to tell you. Do lots of research before your first visit to the recruiting centre and be polite but firm and clear in what you want. Ask early and often "what can I do to expidite the process".

What? So the beach condos with golf courses at Basic (training) isn't correct??

[Ashbringer]

The reality is that a recruiting office posting is not career enhancing and it is a boring and tedious job, therefore many of the folks in the position are bottom third of the merit list slugs or coasting on a terminal posting. Also it is important to understand that the recruiting staff have no investment in your success. They do not work for the Air Force (or Navy, or Army) they work for the Recruiting Group section of the Military Personnel Command, so say screwing up someones enrolement, which subsequently makes a problem for you or the Air Force will not directly affect any recruiter and they do not have to listen to the wishes of the services. In the old days each service ran their own recruiting offices and answered to the chief of the Air Force, Army and Navy, so it was easier to hold organizations accountable. My advice is to triple check everything they say and don't believe anything that is not written down in official correspondance ( ie has a RDIMS reference, file number, or an e-mail with a Military rank and address (@forces.gc.ca)). Your file will not generally not move very quickly unless you hound them. When, not if, your file gets stuck and stops moving makes sure you understand what the hold up is and whether they are waiting on anything you need to provide and which they forgot to tell you. Do lots of research before your first visit to the recruiting centre and be polite but firm and clear in what you want. Ask early and often "what can I do to expidite the process".

What? So the beach condos with golf courses at Basic (training) isn't correct??

A classic example of recruiters spreading false information. The correct answer is that the beach condos with golf courses are at AFT....

[trampbike]

Alpha Crit, thanks a lot for taking the time to post your story. Now I'm even more motivated to not screw up my interview tommorow...

[Bushav8er]

Honestly, you can't go wrong with a military career.

[tbonecanucks]

Hey trampbike,

I'm just wondering how your interview went. I applied for ROTP last year, but missed the medical and interview deadline due to their failure to advise me of them. Tough break. I am re-activiating my application some time in November, and hopefully I can get my interview and medical done with pretty soon thereafter. Maybe we can help each other out. Let me know.

Hopefully your interview went well. Cheers.

Travis

[trampbike]

It went very well. I'll be scheduled for ASC Trenton as soon as they get my blood test results (this should happen next week).

PM sent

[bubby]

To keep it short, ivebeen flying in the military for fifteen years since training which took 5...yup 5 years. I've got about 5000 hrs total,so not bad. The most satisfying part of the job is the type of flying. Used to fly the cp140. The worst part but most relaxing was transiting out before going operational and employing the aircraft tactically. The straight and level cruising was boring 15 yrs ago. 300' overwater at night and 45deg bank low level in cloud. Dangerous? Yup...challenging? Yup...boring...no. It's been hard on the family cuz when the call comes...you're gone...often not knowing when you're coming home...but when you are on missions, tactical flying and just plain doing stuff that would land you in jail in the civvy world, it's pretty damn cool! Negatives? Lack of a reliable schedule, alot of admin crap that after 20yrs I still don't see the point to, constantly changing rules that are not always for the best, and most important for me is the lack of value placed on the old guys and experienced pilots by the leadership. It's a young mans game and no matter what you fly, it's some cool flying that you just plain can't legally do elsewher. Wher else can you legally take a 138000 pound aircraft down to 100' and 408kts? I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure someone would be pretty pissed if you tried that in an embraer. Overall, if you want to be a military pilot it's a pretty great way to go. If you want to build hrs for a civvy career go somewhere else it's not for you.

On a side note, unless you finish1st at brt there's about 60-70 % chance you will fly helos . If you are ok with that great if not don't join

Overall I'd do it again in a heartbeat. No complaints, but after 20 yrs it's time to move on before I don't enjoy it.

[Expat]

Helo Flying can also be fun. I have been on a few patrol flights, as VIP/observer, and really have gotten wild rides...Full ahead in an Apache, 20 meters above ground, in afghan canyons, with abrupt 30 degrees banking turns...

[Moose47]

>>>Helo Flying can also be fun. I have been on a few patrol flights, as VIP/observer, and really have gotten wild rides...Full ahead in an Apache, 20 meters above ground, in afghan >>

20 meters, holy shit that's nose bleed altitude. I miss flying so low that the altimeter reads zero feet. LOL

Take care Expat and keep a round in the chamber at all times.

[Expat]

On the first of these rides, I almost sh*t myself... I thought we were going to slam on a canyon wall.
After the landing, I wanted to see the face of that Top Gun! Son of a gun... The pilot took off the helmet, and long blond hair fell out! A Spanish blonde chick!!!
If I had known before, I would have passed out...

[Expat]

>>>Helo Flying can also be fun. I have been on a few patrol flights, as VIP/observer, and really have gotten wild rides...Full ahead in an Apache, 20 meters above ground, in afghan >>

20 meters, holy shit that's nose bleed altitude. I miss flying so low that the altimeter reads zero feet. LOL

Take care Expat and keep a round in the chamber at all times.

Flying very low is a tactic, as the bad guys do not have time to aim at you, and you're gone...But you also have to go fast...

[trampbike]

I was just called today to schedule the simulator test in Trenton (ASC).

For those interested in the selection process, here is mine step by step:

Recruiting Center: Montréal
Regular/Reserve: Reg
Officer/NCM: Officer
Program: ROTP (Civie-U as first choice)
Trade Choice 1: Pilot
Trade Choice 2:
Trade Choice 3:
Application Date: May 13th 2010
First Contacted: September 14th
References contacted: Mid-October
CFAT completed : September 28th
Medical completed: October 20th
Interview completed: October 20th
Optometrical tests: October 22th
Blood test and ECG: November 3rd
Contact for ASC: January 12th 2011
ASC: January 24th

[trampbike]

Little update: I was accepted today! I'll finish my meteorology degree at UQAM (Montréal) through the ROTP program, and then it's the big adventure: boot camp, PFT, BFT etc!

As for which aircraft I would want to fly, I really don't care. It looks like everyone involved in the selection process only wants to fly for the CF, no matter what we would fly if we pass all the training. I think I would prefer going rotary over multi engine, and maybe prefer fighter over rotary, but it is seriously not a big deal. I'm sure every platform offers it's very own challenges and joys.

Good luck to everyone wanting to join, it's a long road. For me it's really just the beggining of the adventure, but I'm so happy I made it through the selection!

[AuxBatOn]

trambike,

Congrats! The biggest step is out of the way. Not get ready to take some abuse and suck it up for a while. It gets better after Basic Training, believe me. And the reward is worth every effort you put into it.

Use your experience wisely. It can help you a lot if you want. Just don't rely only upon your civilian background to put your though flight training.

Good Luck!

PM for any questions at any time.

[Flyboy757]

Congratulations..... let the fun begin! You will absolutely love flying the Harvard II in YMJ. I loved being a Sim Instr on it. A lot of hard work ahead...keep focusted, you`ll do great.

Flyboy 757

[Rockie]

Don't accept the word "no" from the first, second, third or even fourth guy you talk to. Keep attacking it from different directions and with different recruiters and medical people.

If I stopped trying at the first person to tell me "no", not only would not have been a military pilot, but I wouldn't even have had a commercial licence.