Mooney M-20 info from owners..

[1000 HP]

I'm considering buying a 1967 Mooney M-20 in mint condition. It has a lot of upgrades and is IFR certified. Recent paint. Has anybody with experience either flying one or working on one got any comments, good or bad?

I've flown a 201 with the Firewall Forward conversion, as well as a Rockwell 114B. I need a fast bird.

[Hedley]

I have about 400 hours in a Mooney M20J (aka 201) with the Lopresti extras. Nice airplane. It would scratch at 160 KTAS at 13 gph. Great way to get from one 3,000 foot paved runway to another, if there's no icing. I highly recommend, for single-pilot IFR:

i) IFR GPS (G530 or G430)

ii) autopilot with heading and altitude hold

iii) stormscope to avoid Cb's in the summer

iv) stay the hell away from icing in the winter. Mooneys deal with icing worse than a Caravan.


For maintenance:

1) wing tanks leak. Look for blue lines at the wing roots and in the gear wells. Do you smell gas in the cockpit? Some people repair the sealant, some people install bladders which add weight and decrease fuel capacity.

2) nose tubes bend when line boys angle the nosewheel too much

3) SB 208B - steel tube corrosion

Personally, I would not buy a Mooney without

a) pulling the pressure screen for metal (Lycoming are infamous for internal corrosion in private, infrequently-flown aircraft) and

b) swinging the gear

c) verifying that all the avionics work perfectly and all the paperwork (IFR GPS?) is perfect. Mooneys can have a lot of money in avionics - more than the engine is worth!

[Mooney21]

Mooney are great airplanes. One of the more efficient long distance four seaters. I have owned two, one 20G and one 20C. First one with electric gear and the second with manual gear. Only recurrent problems with the 20C was a leaking fuel tank. We must have opened that tank five times to attempt to fix it. Should have gone the bladder way. They do required a bit more maintenance that a C172 but they are worth it. I had the chance to have hangar, tools and a good friend AME, but if you have to pay a shop for everything, it can be expensive. My best advise: Have the bird inspected by an AME experienced on Mooney. Good luck.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Mooneys need a mechanic that knows them, otherwise you will be killed by the labour bills. Before buying one get a prepurchase by someone who knows what to look for. As noted above leaky fuel tanks and gear problems (parts can be expensive) are of particular note. The absolute deal breaker though is corrosion in the fuselage tubes. Water leaks through the side windows will cause corrosion in the lower fuselage. Any significant problems here and the aircraft will be beyond economic repair. The panel on early ones is also a nighmare to upgrade. If you think you will be wanting more radios installed, I would get a quote before buying the aircraft.

Personally I think the speed thing is overrated. A 180 hp Mooney is a real world 140 kt airplane. A 182 will do 130 kts is way more comfortable, will carry twice the load, and is the worlds best single engine aircraft for flying on instruments and for the average flight you will be rolling onto final in the 182 when the Mooney is swinging into its parking spot. Yes it will burn 50 % more fuel than a Mooney but for the average private owner the savings in insurance and maintainance will pay for the difference, and the aircraft will be easy to resell.

If speed really matters than get a Bonanza with an IO 550. Then you really will see a difference in trip times but you can also figure on about double the annual cost of ownership compared to the 182.

[iflyforpie]

Mooneys, especially of that era, are built like battleships. They are the only light aircraft that could compare to the Boeings I previously worked on in terms of solidity. The Lycomings are much better than the Continentals of later years and really make for an economical--yet fast--aircraft.

But Mooneys are also very odd creatures in the aviation world, ones that many AMEs absolutely despise.

The smooth metal skin with the welded steel frame. Lot's of places for corrosion to hide and poor access compared to other aircraft that have steel frames (ie: fabric covered).

Mooney doesn't believe in control cables. Even the trim is a driveshaft actuated jackscrew that moves the entire tail assembly. While this means you don't have to worry about cables and pulleys, it also means there are tons of ~$40 rod ends that are in series and that nothing can be easily replaced without affecting everything else. This means cumulative slop in the controls that can only be fixed by replacing all the rod ends and hours of re-rigging.

Landing gear. The manual gear is pretty good, the electric gear I've seen problems with. I had to declare an M20J a write off after it landed in Abbotsford with the gear half down (manual crank jammed). The gear pucks are pretty maintenance free compared to shock-struts on other retractables, but they are a biotch to replace.

I did have the pleasure of doing a post-'crash' inspection on an M20E that stalled at 50 feet onto the runway. The tires deformed enough that the brake calipers and gear doors scraped the runway. Other than that, there was no damage to the aircraft.

Wet wings. Neat idea from the jet age (and pretty successful on later Cessnas), but these tanks are nearly impossible to re-seal from the inside due to the thin Mooney wing and limited access. Each tube of fuel sealant is about $70 last time I checked plus countless hours of cleaning, sealing, curing, and testing. Bladders are available, but reduce range and increase maintenance.

Personally, I would not buy a Mooney without

a) pulling the pressure screen for metal (Lycoming are infamous for internal corrosion in private, infrequently-flown aircraft)

One trick that is nice with constant speed aircraft is to pull the governor screen instead. That way you don't have to dump the oil and it will show the effects over many years and oil changes. A screen with only a few hours on it might not show anything, (though I have pulled filters after a few minutes of running and got parts out with part numbers on them before...)

[JAHinYYC]

I own 50% (not sure it is the left half or the right half) of a 1980 M20K (231) Turbo Mooney and echo all of the comments made here.

Ours is GAMI injector equipped and running lean of peak we see about 155kts on 9.5GPH flying above 10,000 pulling 29" and 2500rpm. You can do 160kts at 31" but unless you adjust things with micro perfection the engine bootstraps and you burn upwards of another 1 to 1.5 GPH.

Leaky fuel tanks top the list of complaints that I have heard (thankfully not applicable to ours).

Last annual in September set a record for being cheap at $2,000 but we had recent changes out the main tires after I dragged the toes brakes on a landing (bad partner). The year before was over six times that, but the turbo, waste gate and most of the exhaust stack needed an overhaul (not done at TBO 350hrs back) - (these are not issues that will impact you).

The reputation for Mooney's being hard to land is undeserved. You have to maintain correct speeds during a stable power on approach. Power off on final and it drops like a stone. Too fast and you will float for an eternity.

I would make a plan for some good dual training (10hrs or more) so that you develop a comfort level and also plan to commit to a recurrency regieme. This is not the sort of airplane to buy if you are only flying once in a while or putting on 10-20hrs per year.

If you are in AB give me a PM and I can give you a few names to arrange all of the above.

[1000 HP]

Thanks for all the replies. Keep em coming. I'll be going to have a look at the bird in the next week or two.

[. ._]

Can I have a ride in your new plane?

SHOTGUN!!!!

(I called it first!)

[Hedley]

Mooneys are easy to fly. If you're in eastern Ontario, and you can fly a 172 proficiently, I can check you out in one day

[C-GKNT]

I bought a 1965 M20E in 2000 and I have since put about 750 hours on it.

Mine has electric gear and has never given me any problems although it probably adds $100-200 to the annual.

I did have issues with a weeping fuel tank on one side a few years ago and it was expensive to repair (primarily due to the incompetence of the mechanic doing the work but I won't get into that now). Next time, I would take it to the U.S. and go to somebody who specializes in this. I have had the occasional maintenance issues over the years but nothing unreasonable given that my Mooney is older that I am. While I have come across the occasional mechanic who will not work on Mooneys it has not really been an issue.

I think that the M20's are a great compromise in that it is cost effective enough to just burn holes in the sky or fly Young Eagles but at the same time it is fast enough to go on some serious cross-countries. I get an honest 150 knots cruise speed at 10.5 U.S.gals/hour.

I fly it across Canada (Alberta to New Brunswick where my in-laws live) every year or so and I flew it down to Jamaica and the Caribbean this spring http://gknt.blogspot.com .

Although my family is starting to out grow it, it's a great plane to own.

Glenn

[Finnegan]

Very easy to fly. A little snug for big people. Make sure the little landing gear gearbox has been properly inspected if you're going with electric gear. If those gears wear out, it's a pricey belly landing. Pricing on older M20C's with manual gear is pretty good right now and the gear's easy to operate.
We've had a few Mooneys (C, E, F) in the family over the years. I prefer the Bonanza, but it's more cost all around.

We bought one a few years ago that had sat for awhile because of an engine failure on takeoff. The seller said there was water in the tanks, but no drains. (he hadn't looked very closely - they're flush mounted) We drained gallons of water out of it, then shook the wings and drained more. And repeated the process a few more times. The water had sat long enough that rust had formed on the interior surfaces of the elec. fuel pump, so it would stick. The airplane ran up OK, taxied OK, so I took off and climbed to 100 feet and it promptly quit. I still had 1/2 mile of runway ahead and landing was no issue. It then taxied back with no hiccups. Not enough fuel could squeeze by the pump to run the engine at continuous cruise power, but at idle, fuel would fill the lines. So make sure the fuel drains have been used.

And yes, some AME's may insult you. Speaking from experience.

[light chop]

Bought and regularly fly an '81 M20J model - great airplane! Everywhere I go people come up to me to see it and talk about it. Wide open throttle at 8500' to 9500' and 2500 rpm it'll true 160 knots no problem. Built like a tank. Easy to fly, easy to land, just don't daydream so you fall behind it.

Try to find a plane that hasn't had a bunch of little things neglected, they can add up pretty quick. Mooney parts are expensive (like all aviation parts). Keep the shock disks fresh, that will go a long way to keeping you from re-sealing the tanks (try not to pound it on).

http://www.mooneyspace.org/index.cfm?action=home (lots of info)
http://lists.aviating.com/mailman/listinfo/mooney-tech (10 years worth of great info)