AIR CANADA TO COMMENCE TORONTO CITY AIRPORT FLIGHTS IN FEb

[fish4life]

sad to hear the salaries are that low... $75K / yr for a Q400 cpt and thats only if you work your ass off.... very very sad

[BLZD1]

What is Jazz's 1 level Capt pay assuming they hire direct entries?

[TAWS]

Base salary, capt : 52000$ + 23$/hrs Flight credit = approx 75000$ ( 80 to 85 hours a months )
F/O : 31200$ + 14$/hrs = 46000$ ( same conditions as above )

I wouldn't want to be reserve...no flying = no flight credit...no flight credit...means your taking home base pay.

Reminds me of medevac days...Base pay plus 10 cents a mile.

[bmc]

IMHO I think it will be far less damaging to have AC there than most think. If you want to operate a successful restaurant you put it where there are lots of restaurants. I think the additional draw of traffic to the island will be good for all.

I fully agree. AC's entrance to the island legitimizes Porters service. Additional frequencies out of any airport, draws customers. It's a known fact. As for profitability, that remains to be seen.

If AC's strategy is stop all airline flying out of the island, so as to not maintain two staffed bases. they will have to everything to beat Porter to death. It may work or it may backfire. As much as loyaty programs draw traffic, convenience can be a bigger draw. If it wasn't a bigger draw, one could argue that Porter would not be doing so well.

There are a lot of cities that have mutiple airports offering scheduled service. London has five airports. Paris has two. Dallas has two. LA has 2-3. With enough travelling population coupled with chronic traffic, secondary airports become more appealing.

Interesting times ahead.

[BLZD1]

I just looked at Jazz's Capt's 1st year pay on Airline Central and it is the same as Air Canada Sky Regional.

[Localizer]

I just looked at Jazz's Capt's 1st year pay on Airline Central and it is the same as Air Canada Sky Regional.

First, I think that is the old pay scale on Airline pilot pay.

Second, Jazz has a pension and benefits, that is all part of the compensation package. Also from what I read the working conditions at Sky Regional don't even compare to Jazz.

[Brick Head]

Localizer,

The issue was never to match Jazz compensation. The issue was to avoid igniting a race to the bottom.

Given time these guys and gals will take care of themselves. The starting point for Sky does not look to me as a race to the bottom threat.

Competition was going to enter at some point. The level at which they are entering is to me a relief.

[CanadaEH]

The whole "Air Canada is predatory" argument is weak... and I'm a WestJet employee. Porter has had a monopoly at YTZ for 4 years - losing $40 million over that period, no less - and if it were at any other Airport the competition would've responded a hell of a lot quicker. I hope that anyone who wants to point the finger at Air Canada (or WestJet) for the demise of Porter takes a real hard look at the recent prospectus that shows Porters financial weakness even before the arrival of Air Canada.

Any demise of Porter is a direct result of its own mismanagement.



..... having said that, I wish everyone the best (and NO, I don't want to see anyone out of a job).

[Localizer]

Brick Head,

Seriously? You consider this a relief?

AC - EMB 175 Capt. - approx. $130,000 (75 Seats)
Jazz - CRA705/Q400 Capt. - approx. $110,000 (75 Seats)
Sky Reg - Q400 Capt - approx. $75,000 (75 Seats)

Not to mention only 10 days off a month ... maybe. You may end up on reserve or drafted in those 10 days. This is going backwards ... no matter how you cut it. No pension, benefits to be determined .. I can't say this doesn't represent a race to the bottom.

[BLZD1]

Loc

You can not expect Sky Reg to start at 16th year Jazz Capt. pay. They are starting at 1st year Jazz Capt Pay. That is pretty good considering they are brand new and no union yet. As far as work conditions let them get started and you will see changes. The new Jazz pay tables has a bit of 757 pay in it so you have to subtract that from Jazz pay! (Status Pay)

I figured Sky Reg would be starting around $55,000 to $60,000 a year for a Capt. I am glad I was wrong-!!

As per Airline Pilot Central Forums.

AC - EMB 175 and 190 Capt. - approx. $116,000 - $137,700 (73 - 93 Seats)
Jazz - CRA705/Q400 Capt. - approx. $75,000 - $110,000 (75 Seats)
Sky Reg - Q400 Capt - approx. $75,000 - ??? (75 Seats)

Jazz's CASM problem is not the pilots salary! It is the shareholders taking money out of AC through Jazz that is the problem. Joe is screwing the company to please the shareholders. Your union needs to address this so you can be competive in the market.

[Brick Head]

Loc,

I'll echo BLZD1 and add a point.

The EMJ wage you posted is 175/190 blended pay and no where near year 1. The blend is 25% 175 and 75% 190. Their seating configuration is J/Y. Max seating is 90/110 versus 78 for the Q400.

For a starting wage at a new company? I have to tell you this will swing many people to the side that believe we don't need to intervene to prevent a race to the bottom.

Heck their starting salary is better than AC's. Thats right. Direct entry CA and FO are both flat salary. CA for the first year and FO for 2. RP for 3.

3rd year EMJ FO 60k

Now that is an embarrassment.

[Dark Helmet]

Yup, I knew this would have happened. Here is a post I made earlier. Obvioulsy it fell on death ears. Recycling pilots is a race to the bottom!!!

Okay, We need to look at this from a different perspective and not be shortsighted by looking at the wage alone.

Lets just say the starting wage is:Capt 95K and FO 45K (I am just picking numbers here as I do not know what the starting wage will be at sky regional)

Both are higher than Jazz, Porter, Etc. However, this is a start up airline, therefore the wages will be the starting wage for all pilots.

The Average Jazz Capt (25, 20 years in) makes more than that. The average Jazz FO (15,10,5 yrs) also makes more than that.

Also, we need to look at the bells and whistles.

Will the Skyregionals pilots have a pension?
What will their perdiems be like? work rules?, benefits?

This is called recycling of pilots. This has been happening in the States. a Mainline Carrier has Airline A (Established carrier) doing their feed. Airline B comes in as a startup airline with a mainline CPA. Mainline slowly farms out flying from Airline A to B. Eventually, airline A pilots are laid-off from airline A and force to start all over at airline B.

BTW Mainline pilots are not protected from being recycled either.

At least the 757 pilots at Jazz are senior pilots making the top salary wage at Jazz.

[Dark Helmet]

Jazz's CASM problem is not the pilots salary! It is the shareholders taking money out of AC through Jazz that is the problem. Joe is screwing the company to please the shareholders. Your union needs to address this so you can be competive in the market.

Agreed 100%. ALPA is aware of this.

[EI-EIO]

Porter has had a monopoly at YTZ for 4 years - losing $40 million over that period, no less - and if it were at any other Airport the competition would've responded a hell of a lot quicker.

In most other cities - especially one with an aircraft assembly line within the city boundary - YTZ would have the full support of the City and a travel policy accordingly. Doubtless under Miller Mississauga International got pretty much the whole show, unlike Fed and Prov pols who weren't afraid to be seen there.

I may hate the thought of Ford being mayor but at least with either Ford or Smitherman I knew either of them would likely not regard the Porter departure area like a vampire regards a church.

[mbav8r]

EIO, Are you saying the politicians don't support porter or fly off the island because of the possible ramifications of certain groups trying to get rid of the airport? I think we'll find out once AC is there. I don't know if there could be a policy that exist to favor one company or another, but if there were such a policy I would think it would favor the Flag Carrier of our country

[Altstar]

Where did SkyRegional's Q400s come from?

[whiteguy]

Where did SkyRegional's Q400s come from?

Lynx Aviation, operating for Frontier.

[YYZatcboy]

Ugly eh?

[countryhick]

Colours only a mother could love.....and thats even pushing it.......

[mattedfred]

Interesting that the media hasn't even brought up the comparison of AC contracting out Tier 2 flying of a Q400 as was done in the US with some mainline carriers.