No-Expiry IFR?

[Flybabe]

I myself would be THRILLED with this. I maintain currency in the US, it would be about time that TC recognizes it.

As for the weekend IFR warriors, I can't really comment on that.

[Skyhunter]

What about the 4-year requirement? Curerntly, if you don't renew within 4 years, your instrument totally expires and you must rewrite the INRAT. Is that changing too?

I thought it was 2 years and then have to rewrite the INRAT? I am just about to go rewrite cause thought I had too. Anyone know the details.. going to look through the CARS now, but who knows how long it will take to find.

[Alpha Crit]

When you do a ride, Skyhunter, your rating's valid for 2 years subject to currency provisions. If you allow it to expire, but renew within two years of that expiry date, it's a simple renewal ... no INRAT required. If you leave it expired for more than two years, then you have to rewrite the INRAT.

[Skyhunter]

What does this really mean....... I think it could be meant that my rating expires after 2 years.... I then have an additional 2 years to renew before I would have to write the INRAT. Any jail house lawyers out there want to interpret for me?

421.48 Period of Validity

(1) 24 months calculated to the first day of the twenty-fifth month following the month in which the flight test was conducted.

(2) An instrument rating may be issued for a period of less than twenty four months.

421.49 Renewal of Instrument Rating

(1) An applicant for the renewal of an instrument rating shall successfully complete the flight test referred to in paragraph 421.46(2)(c).
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)

(2) An applicant who successfully completes a Line Operational Evaluation (LOE) from an approved Advanced Qualification Program (AQP) shall be considered to have met the pilot proficiency check requirement pursuant to Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations.
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

(3) An applicant for the renewal of an instrument rating, who is employed by the holder of a private operator certificate issued pursuant to section 604.03 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations, with a pilot training and proficiency certification program, shall successfully complete that program and be certified proficient for operations under IFR by the chief pilot.
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

NOTE:

For the purpose of subsections (2) and (3), the chief pilot's assessment of an applicant's competence and proficiency shall be based on the mandatory items set out in TP 9939 Flight Test Standards - Instrument Ratings and, or TP 6533 - Approved Check Pilot Manual Chapter 10 - Assessment Standards.
(amended 2005/12/01)

(4) An applicant for the renewal of an instrument rating that expired more than 24 months before the date of application, shall:
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)

(a) successfully complete the flight test referred to in paragraph 421.46(2)(c); and
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)

(b) obtain a minimum of 70% in the written examination (INRAT) described in CAR 421.46(2)(a) - Knowledge Requirement.
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)



OK just read reply Alpha Crit.. I think I am interpreting the CAR correct from you just said, an others want to add their 2 cents to confirm or not?

[Aeros]

Your interpretation is correct. Once you do a ride, the rating is good for two years -- that date will be printed on your new licence or sticker. As long as you do your renewal nor more than two years AFTER the expiry date printed on your licence (effectively within four years of the ride) you do NOT have to re-write the INRAT.

Once you wait until more than two years after the date printed on your licence (in that case, you have been EXPIRED for over two years) you then have to re-write.

[Panama Jack]

unless of course . . . . (see foreign exemption).

[midwingcrisis]

Anyone have an update on the proposed rule change on the No-expiry IFR?

Thanks

[Lost Lake]

Hey Check Pilot, I sort of agree with what you are saying. However, incompetents in the IFR world usually get "Cadorsed" or corrected by TC and in an awful hurry. That's why there is seperation, so I don't think they are as great a threat to you as the pilots who think they can fly in the .. without an IFR clearance.

Also pilots who want to be current on IFR would probably get better skills in a more relaxed environment with a flight Instructor, knowing that they might need an extra hour to get current versus the dreaded "ride". IMHO

[JAHinYYC]

Anyone have an update on the proposed rule change on the No-expiry IFR?

Did my renewal in YYC with the local DFTE in late January 2010 and his comment was that this was likely the last time he and I would be getting together for the test.

His info came from Transport, during his renewal six months earlier, but no concrete timeline.

[Panama Jack]

I hope your DFTE didn't mean he was retiring.

Fingers crossed, hoping it occurs sooner rather than later.

[ng78]

Yup my IFR is good until June 1st and I am not flying, therefore can't afford to renew. Tell 'em to hurry up!

[tca]

My understanding is that while you won't need to pass a flight test every 2 years, you'll still have to get signed off as proficient every 2 years, so the sky is not suddenly going to be full of IFR flying private pilots who haven't been monitored in years. Perhaps passing a review flight with an instructor would be more meaningful than simply passing a standard renewal flight test, and allow for more real world scenarios and perhaps even teach the candidate a thing or two. It would be much more relaxed if instead of stressing over making the slightest error that would cause you to fail, instead you worked on weak areas until you and the instructor were comfortable.

[Panama Jack]

I could live with that, tca, but ideally I would like to see some flexable standards which recognize foreign training. For example, if a Canadian instrument rated pilot is employed at a foreign air carrier and passes a foreign instrument rating renewal ride or PPC, this should count for the Canadian currency as, by my experience, a foreign air carrier PPC is pretty much identical to a Canadian air carrier PPC.

Likewise, in the interest of moving towards greater harmonization between the US and Canada, the successful completion of an Instrument Proficiency Check in accordance with Part 61.57 of the Federal Aviation Regulations should satisfy Canadian Instrument Rating currency criteria.

[midwingcrisis]

I think Panama Jack hit it right. It is about time!! Anybody have a sort of date this is coming down?

Thanks all

[PunkStarStudios]

DPEs will be pissed. That's probably 80% of their business.

[Cat Driver]

One of the pluses of not flying in Canada was not having to go through their goofy instrument currency stuff.

I found that airplanes can be flown safely outside of Canada under the FAA way of demonstrating proficiency....

.......it worked just fine because I survived.

[The Old Fogducker]

No big deal ... after all, the DACPs only fail about 1% of the applicants anyway, so its not like there is real jeopardy in flying with them.

OFD

[Panama Jack]

I hear from a friendly inspector at TC that the new regulations will mirror the 6 approaches within the last 6 month rule as is presently the case in the USA. Unfortunately, the timeline for implementation is still a big question, however it is great to see this pragmatic step and greater harmonization coming into effect in Canada.

[Lost Lake]

I just heard TC is moving VERY quickly on this. It is a high priority item. Rumor has it that the roll out date is Jan 1 2020, if they've gotten the new licences out by then!!

[YOWza]

I found that airplanes can be flown safely outside of Canada under the FAA way of demonstrating proficiency....

It's sad that TC hasn't figured that out.

[PunkStarStudios]

The 2 year thing is a bit of a pain. I fly a Navajo 3-4 days out of the week - good and bad weather. Everything from Sarnia to Pearson to Florida trips. Took one of the best IFR instructors I know for a ride via YYZ - the procedures blew him away. I wouldn't say I was a better IFR pilot than he was (he's a Webster trophy winner) but he was really impressed and admitted he'd be intimidated after seeing the procedures at YYZ to do it on his own.

So my point is - yeah - there are those that only fly it occasionally that really need it (or do the same damn 3 approaches every day with a student) - those that fly the airlines that really don't need it with their 6 month stuff (and besides - single pilot IFR is a whole different animal anyhow) and then there's guys in between who do Single pilot MIFR corporate stuff - who actually have to do a full procedure from time to time and are visiting every airport under the sun and are subjected to all sorts of quirky procedures. Would I "need" a check ride every 2 years? Doubtful. But I'd welcome a refresher from someone like Ed Pasquale who probably has forgotten twice as much as I could learn in 10 years.

[gthorbahn]

anyone heard any updates on this lately?

[LegoMan]

Transport Inspector told me November or December of this year but even she admitted that they take a long time to get things done and not to expect that time frame to be accurate.

[skymarc]

I talked to some T.C. guys in Oshkosh and nobody new anything about this. It sure would be nice and cheaper in the process than a ride every 2 years.

[Pete]

Anymore news on this?