License conversion question

[Missing_in_Action]

How can i convert my ICAO CPL/ME/IR that i got from Pakistan to Canadian CPL?

I will accompany my wife to Canada in January '11 as spouse of international student. I plan to stay there for 2 years. I love outdoors and nature, so i thought i may as well do some flying in the remote areas while i am there. I am 29 years old and my total time is 825:00 hours, mostly single engine military aircraft.

any help would be highly appreciated. thanx.

[Shiny Side Up]

Your best bet is when you get here, go to your nearest TC office and ask them. If we are to understand that you've never been here before and you're going to arrive in January I'd advise looking into buying long underwear. And a toque.

[Hedley]

To get a self-standing Canadian CPL, CAR 421.30 applies:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_30

421.30(9) applies to you:

(9) Credits for Foreign Applicants

If an applicant has met the flight time requirements specified in paragraph (4)(a), the applicant who holds a commercial or higher type pilot licence in the aeroplane category, issued by a contracting state is considered to have met the ground school requirement.

If you start working through 421.30, you can see what you have to do:

421.30(1) - you have to be 18
421.30(2) - you need to get a Cat 1 medical (Canadian)
421.30(3) - you are exempt from (a) ground school but you must do the written (c)
421.30(4) - you need to prove that you have the required flight times
421.30(5) - you have to do a flight test. You can do it on a single-engine trainer such as a Cessna 172, etc.

Note that an instrument rating is NOT required for a Canadian CPL. You can add it after, just like a multi-engine endorsement, float rating, etc.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Hed

Sounds like he just wants to fly around a bit. He can get a PPL issued on the basis of his Pakistan CPL with no additional requirements.

[Hedley]

My bad. For a Canadian PPL, CAR 421.26 applies:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_26

Look at CAR 421.26(8)

(8) Licence Issued On the Basis of Foreign Licence

(a) An applicant who is the holder of a Private or higher pilot licence -aeroplane issued by a Contracting State shall be considered:

(i) to have met the ground school instruction requirement; and

(ii) to have met the written examination requirement and the flight test requirement, provided that the foreign licence was not issued on the basis of a licence from another State, and that the applicant:

(A) has met the flight time requirements specified in subsection (4);

(B) has obtained a minimum of 90% in the written examination Student Pilot Permit or Private Pilot Licence for Foreign and Military Applicants, Aviation Regulations (PSTAR); and

(C) has completed, as pilot in command or co-pilot in aeroplanes, a minimum of 5 take-offs and 5 landings within the 6 months preceding the date of application for the Canadian licence.

So if he just wants a Canadian PPL issued on the basis of his foreign ICAO PPL, he just needs to

- do a Canadian category 3 medical, and

- find an FTU and write a PSTAR and have an Authorized Person fill out the licence application form 26-0194, and

- get a passport photo taken and submit a form 26-0726 for a licence booklet, and

- enclose a cheque for $55 payable to the Receiver General for Canada

The bad news is that the above process can take 6 months, in my experience

[Shiny Side Up]

Sounds like he just wants to fly around a bit. He can get a PPL issued on the basis of his Pakistan CPL with no additional requirements.

Hence the answer I gave. Nine times out of ten when I get asked about converting a license, the asker of the question isn't very clear on what qualifications they have and what they actually wish to accomplish. Either way, they're going to have to bother the people at TC somewhere in this process so they might as well save some tmie and get it straight from the horse's mouth.

It does seem like he just wants to fly around, but then he also says he wants to fly around some remote places - which most PPL holders would hardly do - and unless he's going to be buying an airplane, unlikely to find a rental for. Then again, the most populated areas of Canada might seem "remote" depending on where he's coming from in Pakistan... or not.

[flyingdiaper]

Hi,

There's alternative to conversion.
If you won't be here for good, do foreign license validation.
Saving money and time.
It's usually good for 1year and no tests. However be acquainted with Canadian Law and Regulations though.
Also if you fly north and bush, it's whole lot a different flying.
Issuance is pretty swift most of the times.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/o ... 5.htm#s1-2
I hope you enjoy flying here in Canada!

[Missing_in_Action]

thank you Hedley and everyone else for the detailed replies to my query.

yes indeed i'll be in canada for the first time and i'll stay there for at least 2 years (for the duration of my wife's diploma program); unless she decides to apply for post graduation work permit, in which case i may have to stay longer.

my wife's college is located in calgary. i'd really love to fly in the canadian north, enjoy the wilderness, may be do some hunting...very excited at the moment

so i think it will be best to just go to calgary and contact transport canada for the license conversion. i am mainly interested in recreational flying, however, getting paid to fly up north will not be a bad option i guess i hope to find work despite my low flying experience

i look forward to be a part of canadian aviation fraternity and make new friends there.

thanx everyone

[Missing_in_Action]

PS...

i have never flown an aircraft equipped with a yoke. i have flown only aircraft having stick controls. is that going to be a problem? and since i am not type rated on a single engine cessna, will i have to get type rating on one before i can go for license conversion?

i'd better fly a cessna here in pakistan before going to canada to make things easier. karachi flying club, here i come!!!

[Hedley]

i hope to find work despite my low flying experience

See CAR 421.30 above for CPL conversion process.

Anyways, Welcome to Canada! Lots of aviation here. You simply won't believe the freedom here, compared to what you're probably used to.

i have never flown an aircraft equipped with a yoke

No problem. You will adapt very quickly.

i am not type rated on a single engine cessna, will i have to get type rating on one before i can go for license conversion?

Ok. In Canada and the USA, we have this concept of "blanket" type ratings valid for "classes" of the aeroplane category of aircraft, such as:

SEL - single-engine land
MEL - multi-engine land
SES - single-engine sea
MES - multi-engine sea

Virtually every PPL and CPL in Canada will have at least a SEL endorsement on their licence
which means that they can fly ANY single engine aircraft which is not "high performance" such
as an F-86 Sabre or F-104 Starfighter or MiG-21.

With an SEL on your licence, you can fly virtually any single-engine Cessna, Piper, Beechcraft, etc.

If you want to say fly a Seneca, you go get your MEL (no written test, just a flight test on any MEL aeroplane) and then you can fly any Apache, Aztec, Seminole, Duchess, C310, C421, Baron, etc.

Get it?

Again, you just won't believe the freedoms we enjoy in Canada and the USA with respect to aviation.

For more info on Type Ratings see CAR 421.40:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_40

This might be helpful:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... 1-3219.htm

[KK7]

Switching from stick to yoke should be no problem. I went the opposite route - from yoke to stick - some years ago, and after a couple of minutes I forgot I was flying a stick. In the end, it's still essentially the same movement.

In Canada we do not have type ratings for single pilot, non-high-performance aircraft. Your new Canadian licence will have a blanket type rating stating you are qualified to fly all single engine, single pilot, non-high-performance land aeroplanes (and sea and multi-engine aeroplanes if you get the float and multi rating respectively).

I've been to Karachi, I didn't know they had a flying club, that's great! It never hurts to do some flying around before you get here, but since your licence already covers you to fly Cessnas, all you need to do is do some sort of checkout with an instructor to meet aircraft rental/insurance requirements. But this will be very straight forward, and there is no test, so no pressure.

Sounds like you have a great adventure in store for yourself... enjoy the trip and enjoy our wonderful country!

[KK7]

What Hedley said too... I think we posted at the exact same time.

[Hedley]

I might mention that Canada and the USA have very different definitions of "high performance" aircraft.

In Canada:

"high-performance aeroplane", with respect to a rating, means

(a) an aeroplane that is specified in the minimum flight crew document as requiring only one pilot and that has a maximum speed (Vne) of 250 KIAS or greater or a stall speed (Vso) of 80 KIAS or greater, or

(b) an amateur-built aeroplane that has a wing loading greater than that specified in section 549.103 of the Airworthiness Manual;

So you can see that in fact very very few single engine land (SEL) aeroplanes meet the definition of "high performance" and thus require a type rating to act as PIC. Examples would include (privately-owned) WWII fighters and post-WWII fighter jets. You probably won't be flying one of those.

KK7 makes a very good point about aircraft certified for single-pilot operation. All light (eg less than 12,500 lbs) SEL and MEL aeroplanes are certified for single-pilot operation in North America AFAIK.

Counter example: You privately buy a DC-3 and intend to use it to fly around on sunny days. Because it is certified two-pilot, you will require a type rating to act as PIC (left seat) but all you will need is a PPL because you are not operating it in a Commercial Air Service.

[Missing_in_Action]

thank you KK7 and Hedley for the valuable info.

i have seen pictures posted by bush pilots in another thread....simply amazing!!! impressive!!!!

i hope things turn out well and we get our visas in time.

[Hedley]

You're welcome! Good luck with the paperwork jungle

Despite all of our grumbling here, Canada is one of the best places in the world to fly. The USA is certainly another, but in a very different way.

Canada has enormous, wide open spaces. Mind boggling. Incredible freedom for a pilot, but in Canada you learn to be pretty independent and self-reliant.

The USA is similarly a huge country, but far more populated. Airports are everywhere, compared to Canada. Full service FBO's are incredible.

You should experience both. One aviation event every pilot should experience is Oshkosh at the end of July, at least once.

[Missing_in_Action]

yes i have heard a lot about oshkosh. i'd love to experience it if i get an opportunity. i've been to dubai air show once. it was incredible.