Our NEED To Know

[Blakey]

For example, no one is interested (any more) in the fatal accident of the Cherokee over Algonquin Park who's report was just released. Lots to learn there, but no ghoulish interest in it any more. There was considerable interest and speculation in that accident a year ago here when it was fresh and trendy, but none now.

Hedley,

All true but I am interested in reading that report. I can't find it; is it online?

blakey

[cncpc]

Again a very interesting thread. I liked Hedley's post.
In general, the unadmited purpose of most of the comments on this website (or any aviation website!) speaking about a crash is to indirectly prove how much the one who make comments are smart, how it would have never happened to them, and to remind them how much they should be happy to see they are part of the "good" group, the one who managed to stay alive (or haven't done a deadly mistake). Of course this is not directly written like that in the comments, but we don't need a master degree in literature to distinguish irony, cynicism or lack of neutrality and respect behind text.

Most of the time I find us (the pilot community observing somebody else crash) failing to find the boundary between being unpolite, arrogant, voyeuristic AND being an official investigator who will make recommendation like emplementing a GPWS for example.

We have to be extremely, extremely, extremely cautious when we speak about crash, and when we do, it shouldn't be in order to feed the media world who is passionnate (sick) about aviation crash (but much less about what really kills people in the real life). Commenting on somedy's crash for the pretended sake of safety when the bodies involved are not even cold yet, whilst precisely the priority should be toward the hurt, injured, dead individuals could turn us in very bad gossip person far away from any interesting and useful investigation, far away from helping anybody but its big ego.

Let's don't fool ourselves about to the real nature of our internet forum comments when it comes to aviation crash.

There are people on this forum who have an immediate and legitimate need to try and get the earliest possible insight into a crash such this. In part, that is because it does not have the appearance of a pilot error accident. As you can see, even those whose motives you question do not raise that and I for, one, reject your accusations about that. In some cases, you might be right, but the people who have a real need to understand quickly can sort out that crowd with no difficulty.

If I owned a Bonanza, or if I operated a flight school giving night training, I would want the fastest possible insight into the cause of this accident. I would want information on what caused a 300 foot departure from altitude and the request to ATC to stand by. Even the TSB, in its own way, tries to assist in early determination by releasing details such as flap position and other information as they do in almost any accident, either to the media or others in the industry.

If I were crew of that airplane, I would want not want my family to have to wonder about pilot error for a moment longer than necessary. There is another side of the coin you're flipping on here.

I hope that helps you to understand that there are a lot of good people on these forums and that they aren't "pretending" anything about safety.

[x15]

Unless you fly a Bonanza, and are thus concerned about mechanical or electrical problems stemming from the design and manufacture of that particular aircraft which might affect your aircraft ...

I don't really understand how anyone's intense (but brief and fickle) interest in this accident is anything but prurient.

For example, no one is interested (any more) in the fatal accident of the Cherokee over Algonquin Park who's report was just released. Lots to learn there, but no ghoulish interest in it any more. There was considerable interest and speculation in that accident a year ago here when it was fresh and trendy, but none now.

Very illuminating as to the psyche of people around here.

There are plenty of accidents in aviation that were made a long time ago, that you can learn from, if that's what really motivates you. Rarely is there a new, original cause for an aircraft accident.

+1

Been reading the TSB reports that are online one by one. A great deal of lessons to be learned in each of them.

I knew the pilot of the Seneca Bonanza. I flew that very same airplane numerous times while I was a student. Very sad.

[jeta1]

.

[teacher]

We complan about the "state" (CATSA and TSA) having over reaching powers and infringing on our rights but now some on here are saying we can't have a conversation about an accident? As long as you conversations remain respectful ther's no reason to not have it. Speculate away and learn something in the process. Face it, you're thinking about it anyway. I'd bet all of us even those saying we "shouldn't speculate" has thought "what could have possibly happened?". Should we censor our thoughts too? I'd rather talk about it and broaden my horizons with an intelligent conversation.

[Brown Bear]

teacher, I totally agree. Not speculating, is the rough equivalent of hiding our heads in the sand, and hopping the problem (about which some of you think, we shouldn't speak) will just go away. Or at very least won't happen to us. Bottom line? We all "wonder" what happened. Not just in the most recent case of the Bonanza, but in most/all accidents? Or, we should. Was the electric trim removed? Or just "disabled"? Enquiring minds should want to know? Pilot error? Not likely. Not on a training flight with the instructor on board. I'll speculate.....something broke. Too sudden (in my book at least) to be much else.

[xsbank]

We forget that our nature is to speculate - its what we do. You can defend the reasons for why we do it, or decry them, it will not make any difference, it will still happen. Every bit of knowledge or information we can glean from these tragedies may help us in our careers by maybe making it less likely that we will make the same mistakes. Or so we hope. The sad fact is that any of you who choose to stay in this career will lose some close friends and acquaintances as you progress, significantly more than if you chose carpentry or the law. People die in this profession and we hope it is not us or our friends, but still it happens. THAT is why we speculate, denying this fact is specious.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I would be shocked if the cause of the Seneca crash what ever the final determination, has any "new" information. Sadly the "big five" have contributed to most accidents and will likely be the cause of most future accidents.

-Loss of control on takeoff/landing or approach/departure.
-Continued VFR flight in IMC conditions
-lack off/mismanaged fuel
-Not following the published Instrument approach flight path/ducking under DH/MAP
-Overloading/out of CG loadings

Therefore I think comments as to accident causes right after the event, often reflects an unseemly and ghoulish interest. If commenters are genuinely intersted in learning from another pilots misfortune then study of past finalized accidents reports provide ample examples of what not to do.

[comspazz]

cncpc


Check PM

[cncpc]

cncpc


Check PM

I don't think PMs work. I don't have one from you.

[SunWuKong]

cncpc:

I was not speaking about one crash in particular, but about the comments in general on the internet forum world.
I understand your viewpoint.

[comspazz]

cncpc


Check PM
went through this time.

[cncpc]

cncpc:

I was not speaking about one crash in particular, but about the comments in general on the internet forum world.
I understand your viewpoint.

No problem.

Forumville is a weird town, no doubt about that.

[trey kule]

So I shall bow to the collective wisdom that we are not petty little gossipers and speculation is a good thing...after all...how can you argue against learning. And we all know, without any need for proof, that speculating is learning and not just gossip.

But would one of you learners help me out. When the facts will be available, but are not at a certain point, what exactly is the difference between gossiping and specultaing?

Gotta agree with Doc..It is simply a need to know.....now....before all the facts are made known.....well that maybe not exactly what Doc said, I am speculating a bit.

[teacher]

Jazz dash 8 runs off the runway in YYB

Gossiping:

Must have been a college grad, if they made more money they'd be able to stop, regional airlines once again cutting costs, must be a clapped out dash 8. No facts just bullshitting and bad mouthing.

Speculating:

What was the weather like, what approach did they do, were all navaids and aircraft functioning properly, did anyone see the pictures? Take some facts and assumptions and come up with a plausable explanation.