"opting out" an expensive option

[KAG]

I just saw a quick blurb on the news concerning the TSA and how they can now fine a person for "opting out" up to $11,000!!!! WTF is going on in the land of the not-so-free and home of the brave.

[aviator2010]

looks like your free and clear with the pilots exepmtion

[prop2jet]

looks like your free and clear with the pilots exepmtion

There is no exemption for pilots. At present, in the U.S. if the TSA asks you to go through a Body Scanner and you "OPT OUT" you get the full "Pat Down". If you walk through the metal detector and it "Beeps" guess what? You get to be groped as well. Your only choice is whether you would like to have this done in full view of the public or in private.

[Bushav8er]

Try this, get a job on the ramp as a means to freely access your aircraft for your real job as a pilot.

I really question the ability of the 'minimum skills, minimum educated' TSA agents to actually find anything using a 'pat-down/grope' method. The bad guys are way smarter than any agent. Are you going to allow any of the agents pat-down/grope your under 18 kids, especially since the background checks are so thorough?

How does EL AL airlines do it? They need good security and, as far as I know, they haven't had any problems.

[FlaplessDork]

How does EL AL airlines do it? They need good security and, as far as I know, they haven't had any problems.

It's all about profiling with EL AL. You get profiled when you buy your ticket against a database. You get behaviour profiled driving into the airport grounds. You get profiled walking into the terminal. You get profiled at check in, and walking aboard the plane. If you set off alarms you and your bags are discretely whisked away to a special bomb proof room and interrogated further. No lock downs, and no panic. You'd never know if there was a bomb scare there. Its all about having less security personnel but highly training the personnel you have.

It's not racial profiling by the way, but behaviour profiling.

[Bushav8er]

How does EL AL airlines do it? They need good security and, as far as I know, they haven't had any problems.

It's all about profiling with EL AL. You get profiled when you buy your ticket against a database. You get behaviour profiled driving into the airport grounds. You get profiled walking into the terminal. You get profiled at check in, and walking aboard the plane. If you set off alarms you and your bags are discretely whisked away to a special bomb proof room and interrogated further. No lock downs, and no panic. You'd never know if there was a bomb scare there. Its all about having less security personnel but highly training the personnel you have.

It's not racial profiling by the way, but behaviour profiling.

Now that, combined with other methods, makes sense.

[FlaplessDork]

[TG]

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/congressme ... d=12192559

....In a statement, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) announced new procedures that it says will streamline airport security.

Pilots in uniform on airline business will be allowed to pass through airport security by showing two photo IDs. The identification will be cross-checked against a flight crew database.

"Allowing these uniformed pilots, whose identity has been verified, to go through expedited screening at the checkpoint just makes for smart security and an efficient use of our resources," TSA Administrator John Pistole said in a statement.....

"and an efficient use of our resources"

Finally

[ogc]

Its also worth pointing out that it takes no more than 30 minutes (apparently) to check in and get on a plane there.

[teacher]

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/congressme ... d=12192559

....In a statement, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) announced new procedures that it says will streamline airport security.

Pilots in uniform on airline business will be allowed to pass through airport security by showing two photo IDs. The identification will be cross-checked against a flight crew database.

"Allowing these uniformed pilots, whose identity has been verified, to go through expedited screening at the checkpoint just makes for smart security and an efficient use of our resources," TSA Administrator John Pistole said in a statement.....

"and an efficient use of our resources"

Finally

Will a Canadian RAIC be considered appropriate? We are not elegable for Crewpass with our RAIC so will this be for us too?

[Spokes]

Its also worth pointing out that it takes no more than 30 minutes (apparently) to check in and get on a plane there.

If you are talking about Tel Aviv, then no, it takes longer. Just came back from there. 2 hours from airport entry to waiting at the gate. Many checkpoints, many people with guns. No patdown, no nude xray photo thingy. All the rest said above seemed to be about right though.

[TG]

teacher, I have no idea what kind of "flight crew database" they are talking about.
At list it's a start and hopefully it will snowball in Canada and also to Canadians flying in the States !?

[teacher]

I figured it'd be so new the rules wouldn't be known. I'm just assuming that it would apply to US crews only.

[Changes in Latitudes]

[loopa]

"just use your head"

Yup, it honestly is that simple. But since when did politicians use their head?

[V1 Rotate]

http://flightaware.com/news/ap/BCUSTrav ... wn-US/2399

[coreydotcom]

What I always wondered is why the standards are not the same from place to place?

For example: Montreal to Holguin, Cuba.

In Montreal you get the full normal security treatment, including not allowed to bring liquids on the plane.

When departing Cuba, the same guy who checks the whole plane, who makes the whole plane pay for the departure tax is the same guy waving everyone through the metal detector into the "secure" area. So basically, last time I went, I brought my rum back in my carry on because I figured it had less chances to break.

So my question is, if you were legally in Canada, and legally allowed to travel to Cuba, oh yeah... and a terrorist, why wouldn't you just go on a little cuban vacation, make your bomb over there and blow s**t up on the way home?

I find that if they don't screen you when returning from Cuba they shouldn't bother with you when you're going to Cuba.


my 2 cents.

[Brown Bear]

I am seriously considering (not shitting you here, I'm dead serious!) buying a ticket to Toronto from Winnipeg, and removing all my clothes, right down to my carefully selected, clean boxers, dumping all my clothing on the cute little plastic trays, and sauntering through the metal detectors. We need to stop this stupidity! If everybody did this, imagine the chaos it would cause! Hell, it would all be perfectly legal! Imagine the entertainment value!

[flyingcatfish]

I think I'll just eat chili the night before I have to fly, and avoid parking a deuce before the flight, and when the TSA guy gets around to patting me down I'll fart in his face...

[kzcvtm]

I think I'll just eat chili the night before I have to fly, and avoid parking a deuce before the flight, and when the TSA guy gets around to patting me down I'll fart in his face...

Then you'll be held for administering a noxious substance...

[ogc]

I am seriously considering (not shitting you here, I'm dead serious!) buying a ticket to Toronto from Winnipeg, and removing all my clothes, right down to my carefully selected, clean boxers, dumping all my clothing on the cute little plastic trays, and sauntering through the metal detectors. We need to stop this stupidity! If everybody did this, imagine the chaos it would cause! Hell, it would all be perfectly legal! Imagine the entertainment value!

Well Mr. Bear.

A pornstar in Seattle has beaten you to this.

And she videotaped it,

This is not safe for viewing at work.

http://vimeo.com/17057322

While not full nude, I think see through underwear us as close as you can get.

[grimey]

The problem with El Al's model (which is great) is that it doesn't scale well. El Al is a TINY airline in comparison to most international airlines, with 35 aircraft. Air Canada looks huge by comparison. They have the ability to profile every passenger due to the limited number of passengers they have. If you tried to implement the same system for all passengers going through JFK, the airport would grind to a halt.

But on with the TSA hatred:

[Tim]

that's awesome! sums things up nicely....

[niss]

The problem with El Al's model (which is great) is that it doesn't scale well. El Al is a TINY airline in comparison to most international airlines, with 35 aircraft. Air Canada looks huge by comparison. They have the ability to profile every passenger due to the limited number of passengers they have. If you tried to implement the same system for all passengers going through JFK, the airport would grind to a halt.
]

That's true if you are flying TO israel on El Al but if you want to access the ticket counter for any airline out of Ben Gurion you get the same treatment. Everyone flying out of Israel gets the same security.

[. ._]

Or another option is to just go back to pre-9/11 level security.

There were a few hijackings where people died, sure, but statistically it was safer than driving and you'd have a better chance of winning the 6/49 than getting killed by a terrorist.

How quickly we forget the good old days of freedom.

-istp