Are pilots still being hired directly from Flight School?

[flyinhigh]

Let me share with all of you what I said at my interview when I was asked this question.

"I have been doing this a fairly long time, I want a family and my wife and I are finally starting to settle down. I enjoy short haul flying and am not interested in long haul. I do not want to go to WJ as I have NO desire to live in Calgary and will avoid commuting at all cost. If I'm happy at the company I am at I will have no reason to move on. I want stability and I'm not looking for another stepping stone. If AC calls one day I can't say I won't consider it however going to the bottom of another seniority list and having to possibly move/commute until I can bid back home is something I am VERY uninterested in. I've heard from friends that work here that it's a great place to be with a good schedule and work rules and those are my priorities."

I am very happy here and have no intention of leaving. It's a great place to work. It has it's issues but all airlines do no matter how much sunshine people from other airlines try to blow up your ass. Sure I'd like to make more money but wouldn't we all. Those 777 Captains who are the highest paid pilots in the country are gunning for a raise too so take it as you will. I enjoy this type of flying but if you don't well, you'd obviously not be happy at Jazz for a career.

I've said it a million times on this forum bid lifestyle not metal. I know some guys who made it to AC and got on some big planes fast but you know what, they'll be working every Christmas and weekend for the next 10 years while I'll be carving turkey and seeing my kids' sports games and dance recitals. That's my choice so I'd appreciate it if you didn't knock me for it.

Fly safe

Aviator I don't know what your talking about, but Jazz is an excellent airline to be a pilot for especially for somebodies lifestyle choices for example teachers'. I know another Jazz pilot who is in almost the exact same boat. Flying for Air Canada doesn't mean your a better pilot, and for some the change in lifestyle just ins't in their best interest. So don't rip on Jazz because there are tons of pilots who would love to fly for Jazz or are already flying for Jazz and love doing so.

He was doing just that, defending his position on Jazz. Those where answers to some interview questions.

absolutly, if you got 10 or 15 years in than it doesn't make sense to go to the bottom of a seniority list at mainline (not nearly as big a lifestyle change to go to WS. But JAZZ is never going to be someone's first choice if they want to fly for the majors. the money isn't their the life style is the same (reserve) and no one want's to fly the worlds highest time dash 8's (I know you have some new one's comming)

Well skippy I have only 4 years in at Jazz, love it. It WAS my choice to come here (WJ was my first,once I started here I changed my mind QUICK) and almost didn't take it because it says Air Canada on the side of the plane(didn't know what the difference in companies was really). My lifestyle here is amazing, haven't worked a christmas yet, pick my pairings, hold all the days off I want. MMM now to give that up to go to AC where I got buddies with the same seniorty that are still JUST off reserve and some still ON reserve. MMMM no thanks.

Also its not all about money, thats the problem with most at AC. When they try to convince you to come there it almost ALWAYS comes down to money. Well guess what, i'm 29 have a 10 month old kid, brand new(08) house, 2 vehicles, and am able to travel when I want on on my salary and oh yeah I still get a pretty pension at the end. So give me another reason OTHER than money and pension to come over there PLEASE, i'm listening.

P.S- Equipment doesn't suffice either cause if you give me 70K I'd do minnow hops in a cub for a living.

[aviator2010]

So give me another reason OTHER than money and pension to come over there PLEASE, i'm listening.

P.S- Equipment doesn't suffice either cause if you give me 70K I'd do minnow hops in a cub for a living.

how about losing all you flying to Skyregional, georgian, CMA any other Potential tier 2 carrierers that would bid your job cheaper. Move now and lose 4 years senority or JAZZ looses half of it's flying in nine years to someone who will do it cheaper. that put's you at 39 with 14 years senority will it be enough to hold on to your job? will you be on the top half of the senority list?

lack of security would be my concern with AC starting sky regional, Their not funding another start up for the fun of it

[bobcaygeon]

So give me another reason OTHER than money and pension to come over there PLEASE, i'm listening.

P.S- Equipment doesn't suffice either cause if you give me 70K I'd do minnow hops in a cub for a living.

how about losing all you flying to Skyregional, georgian, CMA any other Potential tier 2 carrierers that would bid your job cheaper. Move now and lose 4 years senority or JAZZ looses half of it's flying in nine years to someone who will do it cheaper. that put's you at 39 with 14 years senority will it be enough to hold on to your job? will you be on the top half of the senority list?

lack of security would be my concern with AC starting sky regional, Their not funding another start up for the fun of it

[aviator2010]

bobcaygeon
Post subject: Re: Are pilots still being hired directly from Flight School

aviator2010 wrote:
Quote:
So give me another reason OTHER than money and pension to come over there PLEASE, i'm listening.

P.S- Equipment doesn't suffice either cause if you give me 70K I'd do minnow hops in a cub for a living.



how about losing all you flying to Skyregional, georgian, CMA any other Potential tier 2 carrierers that would bid your job cheaper. Move now and lose 4 years senority or JAZZ looses half of it's flying in nine years to someone who will do it cheaper. that put's you at 39 with 14 years senority will it be enough to hold on to your job? will you be on the top half of the senority list?

lack of security would be my concern with AC starting sky regional, Their not funding another start up for the fun of it

So give me another reason OTHER than money and pension to come over there PLEASE, i'm listening.

P.S- Equipment doesn't suffice either cause if you give me 70K I'd do minnow hops in a cub for a living.

how about losing all you flying to Skyregional, georgian, CMA any other Potential tier 2 carrierers that would bid your job cheaper. Move now and lose 4 years senority or JAZZ looses half of it's flying in nine years to someone who will do it cheaper. that put's you at 39 with 14 years senority will it be enough to hold on to your job? will you be on the top half of the senority list?

lack of security would be my concern with AC starting sky regional, Their not funding another start up for the fun of it

not much to say?

[aviator2010]

the last thing I want is 2000 pilots out of work in 9 years but having said that I'm going to spend the next 8 years positioning myself where that won't matter. I did a JAZZ interview but I did it to get where I wanted to go,
if you do your initial course aat jazz and become comfortable that's fine. Relize that in 9 years you may be out of work cause somebody will be willing to do your job cheaper and the regional wars have started.

[habs]

What convinces me you're not too bright is your talk of things changing in 9 years and ooooooooo better watch out. This is an industry that can change overnight and you're talking about 9 years? Jazz is very well positioned: 5 years TC contract that will grow every year, 9 years left within the current CPA, and looking to expand in other ventures. BTW, those pesky Georgians and CMAs and Skyregionals will make inroads of course, but if you think that won't negatively impact mainline carriers you're nuts. Jazz has contingency plans.

Now hurry downstairs, you're milk and cookies are waiting.

[Lateralus]

the last thing I want is 2000 pilots out of work in 9 years but having said that I'm going to spend the next 8 years positioning myself where that won't matter. I did a JAZZ interview but I did it to get where I wanted to go,
if you do your initial course aat jazz and become comfortable that's fine. Relize that in 9 years you may be out of work cause somebody will be willing to do your job cheaper and the regional wars have started.

Haha position yourself where that won't matter? Where might that be? There is no such thing as a sure thing in this business. 9 years are you kidding me? I have better things to do then thinking I might lose my job in 9 years, like living my life.

Dude this is aviation, like habs said this industry changes overnight.

You talk like you are some industry expert. Just what exactly is your experience? And where exactly do you work? Please enlighten cause your constant spewing of bullshit is tiring.

[teacher]

If the CPA is canceled Jazz has the ability to survive as a stand alone airline within a short amount of time.

[loopa]

Let me share with all of you what I said at my interview when I was asked this question.

"I have been doing this a fairly long time, I want a family and my wife and I are finally starting to settle down. I enjoy short haul flying and am not interested in long haul. I do not want to go to WJ as I have NO desire to live in Calgary and will avoid commuting at all cost. If I'm happy at the company I am at I will have no reason to move on. I want stability and I'm not looking for another stepping stone. If AC calls one day I can't say I won't consider it however going to the bottom of another seniority list and having to possibly move/commute until I can bid back home is something I am VERY uninterested in. I've heard from friends that work here that it's a great place to be with a good schedule and work rules and those are my priorities."

I am very happy here and have no intention of leaving. It's a great place to work. It has it's issues but all airlines do no matter how much sunshine people from other airlines try to blow up your ass. Sure I'd like to make more money but wouldn't we all. Those 777 Captains who are the highest paid pilots in the country are gunning for a raise too so take it as you will. I enjoy this type of flying but if you don't well, you'd obviously not be happy at Jazz for a career.

I've said it a million times on this forum bid lifestyle not metal. I know some guys who made it to AC and got on some big planes fast but you know what, they'll be working every Christmas and weekend for the next 10 years while I'll be carving turkey and seeing my kids' sports games and dance recitals. That's my choice so I'd appreciate it if you didn't knock me for it.

Fly safe

+1

[ant_321]

They are still hiring directly from Seneca college. Im not sure about the exact details but one of my friends just started his training right out of school.

[BTyyj]

.

[Dave Grohl]

If the CPA is canceled Jazz has the ability to survive as a stand alone airline within a short amount of time.

I'm not too sure about this...case in point: Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Air

[teacher]

I don't think there's a real comparison here. Jazz actually has a coast to coast network and can serve expand to serve many communities that it once did put pulled out due to mainlines decisions. Dumping high cost CRJs and replacing them with Q400s and larger Q500s if they're ever built would surely help the bottom line. The biggest hurdle would be setting up it's own reservation and marketing departments however a senior manager told me that this would take about a month (I'm assuming the groundwork is already layed out just incase).

[ARCCOM]

I don't think there's a real comparison here. Jazz actually has a coast to coast network and can serve expand to serve many communities that it once did put pulled out due to mainlines decisions. Dumping high cost CRJs and replacing them with Q400s and larger Q500s if they're ever built would surely help the bottom line. The biggest hurdle would be setting up it's own reservation and marketing departments however a senior manager told me that this would take about a month (I'm assuming the groundwork is already layed out just incase).

Jazz owning a large portion of its fleet is actualy a hinderance in the situation of a CPA being dropped. If it was cancelled Jazz would have a large number of aircraft sitting idle not generating revenue. And it is highly unlikely Westjet would fill the void as an unprofitable feeder setup is not part of their business model. This is exactly what happened with Mesa in the states and it resulted in them filing for chapter 11. As for a stand alone operation it would be difficult to turn a profit on a feeder system that was never really set up to turn a profit but to feed the larger AC routes. I could be wrong, as Air Canada is the only one that could know for sure know what the balance sheet for their CPA operations are. That being said this is all hypothetical as cancelling the CPA mid way through will almost certainly not happen, but the next CPA will likely look very different from the one today.

[teacher]

Sorry for the wicked hijacking of this thread however...........

............I agree Jazz would be a very different airline however, all the parts of Jazz that were joined when it was created all had very profitable routes and in some cases went head to head with mainline and did very well. It is only a feeder now because mainline made it that way. Owning the aircraft IMHO is actually a plus as they will not be taken away and leased to the "new" CPA provider. It also means that Jazz has assets, something unfortunately AC no longer really has. Jazz could in short order redeploy to new routes and have the freedom to compete head to head with mainline if it so wanted to. The Jazz balance sheet is very healthy.

This is another reason why Jazz has been aggressive in going after new business and not relying solely on AC anymore. It's setting itself up for a possible CPA termination in 2020. Again, only an armchair CEO talk'n.

[genetic jack hammer]

I don't think there's a real comparison here. Jazz actually has a coast to coast network and can serve expand to serve many communities that it once did put pulled out due to mainlines decisions. Dumping high cost CRJs and replacing them with Q400s and larger Q500s if they're ever built would surely help the bottom line. The biggest hurdle would be setting up it's own reservation and marketing departments however a senior manager told me that this would take about a month (I'm assuming the groundwork is already layed out just incase).

but the next CPA will likely look very different from the one today.

So true, and AC will also look very different from the one today. If AC is going the way of our neighbors to the south, with multiple CPA's, then name me one mainline carrier in the US that fly's embraers.

[HavaJava]

US Airways has Embraer 190's in it's mainline fleet. *(US Airways Express has 175's, 170's, 145's and CRJ 900's though)

[BTyyj]

Sorry for the wicked hijacking of this thread however............

No big deal. Actually i have found this topic rather interesting to follow, although I do have to really question the merit of some users comments. I wouldn't go against them, but some thing don't seem right. And this is all based on an "if" factor. I would have to agree with an earlier post that basing your career on something that "MAY" happen in 9 years in an industry where changes occur daily would be a very bad idea. If any pilot was looking at a mainline airline based off of what "could" happen in 9 years would never find a job. I think Skyservice is a good example. I was under the impression, as I think most people not too deep into the industry, that Skyservice was a rather stable airline with a relatively modern fleet and contracts with numerous different agencies for charter flights. But that all changed within a day.

[rudder]

I think Skyservice is a good example. I was under the impression, as I think most people not too deep into the industry, that Skyservice was a rather stable airline with a relatively modern fleet and contracts with numerous different agencies for charter flights. But that all changed within a day.

It all changed in much more than one day, although that's all the time it took for a court to accept a petition to liquidate.

SkyService failed because the financing for its purchase by Gibralt Capital several years earlier ended up being a Ponzi Scheme built on demand loans. It finally fell apart when TUI pulled its contract due to its new partnership with Sunwing and the loans got called. The tightened credit markets made refinancing the loans impossible. If SkyService were publicly traded then perhaps much more information would have been publicly available that was most certainly known in the board room. But because it was owned and controlled by private equity, the rank and file (and the public) were the last to know that SkyService was a failing enterprise.

Lesson to be learned by anyone who works for a company where regular financial disclosure is not required.

[mbav8r]

Further to Jazz as a stand alone, with 57s now on the property and the AOC they could also compete on longer routes, and one of the biggest hurdles I've heard about was a reservation system. Apparantly Pluna has thier own and we own 25% of them, so I'm sure something could be worked out. I have the feeling we are no longer under the thumb of big brother and I feel well positioned in the industry as a Jazz Pilot, but as mentioned that could always change.

[Flaps 1]

Keep in mind: Jazz's move to expand it's business outside of the CPA with AC, was not a move to undermine ACPA and AC (as some would be led to believe). I'm sure Joe would've been happy to sit back and bask in the glory of a wonderful CPA, one of the most lucrative in the industry, but outside pressures from both the board of directors and Jazz Mec, forced him to look outside for ways to grow the company.

I for one, am glad it's being done. As a Jazz pilot (and very proud to be), I'm getting a little tired of the anamosity from a few (I stress few) of my mainline colleagues. It will be nice to some day, be a major player in all apects of airline flying in this country. I'll be more than happy to retire from this company 30+ years from now.

This is definitely a career job for me.

[BTyyj]

Keep in mind: Jazz's move to expand it's business outside of the CPA with AC, was not a move to undermine ACPA and AC (as some would be led to believe). I'm sure Joe would've been happy to sit back and bask in the glory of a wonderful CPA, one of the most lucrative in the industry, but outside pressures from both the board of directors and Jazz Mec, forced him to look outside for ways to grow the company.

I for one, am glad it's being done. As a Jazz pilot (and very proud to be), I'm getting a little tired of the anamosity from a few (I stress few) of my mainline colleagues. It will be nice to some day, be a major player in all apects of airline flying in this country. I'll be more than happy to retire from this company 30+ years from now.

This is definitely a career job for me.

+1

[teacher]

Keep in mind: Jazz's move to expand it's business outside of the CPA with AC, was not a move to undermine ACPA and AC (as some would be led to believe). I'm sure Joe would've been happy to sit back and bask in the glory of a wonderful CPA, one of the most lucrative in the industry, but outside pressures from both the board of directors and Jazz Mec, forced him to look outside for ways to grow the company.

I for one, am glad it's being done. As a Jazz pilot (and very proud to be), I'm getting a little tired of the anamosity from a few (I stress few) of my mainline colleagues. It will be nice to some day, be a major player in all apects of airline flying in this country. I'll be more than happy to retire from this company 30+ years from now.

This is definitely a career job for me.

+2

[BTyyj]

Not sure if anybody has noticed but there are pre-retirement seminars for Jazz pilots going on which only reinforces the fact that Jazz pilots are choosing to stay with that career all the way to retirement, meaning they probably love doing their job.

[BTyyj]

Sorry to bring the thread back, but has anybody heard of a pilot being asked to join Jazz through the CAAC from Mount Royal University. So far I have heard of people going directly to Jazz from Sault and confed, but I haven't heard of anybody getting accepted from Mount Royal. Just wondering because that is my Aviation diploma of choice because it is in YYC.