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Doesnt that strike some of you FSS as being part of the problem?Our own union management is working with the company to conduct the LOS review
I think there is some misunderstanding. The union is not working WITH the company to conduct the LOS.sh*t magnet wrote:GilletteNorth
Doesnt that strike some of you FSS as being part of the problem?Our own union management is working with the company to conduct the LOS review
Wouldn't you be better off to let the Company figure out what they are going to do then either give it the Union's stamp of approval or find fault with it?
It's pretty hard to trash a policy when you were "working with the company" to develop it.
Just my thoughts......
Sh*t
WOXOF has corrected the false impression I made with that statement. I should have just directly copied the statement made by Jim Nauss Dec 18, 2008 when he wrote "We continue to work on a HR plan with the company" ...as it conducts the LOS review. That being said, although our union is showing a responsibility to it's members by working on mitigating possible job losses they anticipate will occur with the LOS review, it still seems to me that they've already capitulated on the essence.... that there will be reductions in service resulting in fewer FSS positions across the country.Our own union management is working with the company to conduct the LOS review
Which goes back to my point that trying to involve politicians to raise a hue and cry is not an effective tactic when you know some sites can't justify certain services (midnight shifts).That's probably because the union recognizes that it is indefensible to try and resist in some of the cases that the company will ultimately be reviewing.
http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_cariboo/w ... 52159.htmlCity council wants to keep NAV Canada services
By Erin Hitchcock - Williams Lake Tribune
Published: January 20, 2009 8:00 AM
0 Comments City council will send a message to NAV CANADA that it doesn’t want any loss or reduction in air traffic services at the Williams Lake Regional Airport.
At last Tuesday’s meeting, council stressed that the loss of the services would have a negative impact on the community.
Council also agreed to encourage the District of 100 Mile House and the Cariboo Regional District to send the same message to NAV Canada.
In December, NAV CANADA released a Discussion Paper on Air Traffic Service Requirements that was to initiate consultation with stakeholders, customers, and employees to gather information on what traffic services are required to support safe and efficient aircraft operations. It also focused on service requirements at low traffic airports and low traffic periods.
NAV CANADA is reviewing the Williams Lake Regional Airport (WLRA) and there is a possibility that the Flight Services Station could have its hours reduced or service remoted to another location.
“I’m more concerned with the safety of the passengers on the flights, people coming in and out,” said deputy mayor Surinderpal Rathor, adding that service could be remoted to Cranbrook. “Can you imagine what would happen?”
According to NAV CANADA’s Discussion Paper on Airport Services Review, traffic at the Williams Lake airport has been declining since 2006, which saw a total annual movement of 15,450.
In 2007, movement dropped to 12,706, and in 2008, from January to December, traffic declined a further nine per cent “and is well below that normally requiring an on site FSS.”
But Rathor says those numbers aren’t quite accurate, and he notes that there are also several flying clubs that use the airport.
He says that in 2007, there was actually an annual movement of 14,187, and in 2008, there was 13,427.
While numbers are down, Brian Carruthers, general manager of community services, says it is likely because 2008 wasn’t a major fire season, whereas 2003, one of the busiest years, was.
A City staff report notes the importance of the service provided at the airport, saying that it’s critical for the safe and efficient operation of the airport and that all efforts should be made to ensure the current service remains in place.
See RADIO, page A2
The discussion paper suggests that the airport’s air traffic movements have declined so it may not warrant a 24/7 Flight Service Station. There could be a chance that the airport would go to a remote aerodrome advisory service, which would provide aircraft and vehicle traffic advisories, automated weather reporting, and runway information from another airport in the region.
The City says the Flight Service Station plays a critical role in the operation of the airport, since airport operators maintain contact with the station during snow plowing, runway maintenance, and other airside maintenance operations.
The flight station “observing and reporting aircraft to our staff provides a safety layer that cannot be achieved” through a remote aerodrome advisory service, the City report says.
If the service is reduced or removed, the City would be required to install an aircraft radio control of aerodrome lighting system to pilots to activate the runway lights by way of radio keying.
Doing so would cost the City $25,000, something which wouldn’t be covered through Transport Canada A CAP program.
“We cannot afford to lose it under any circumstance whatsoever,” Rathor says, adding that the service station also assists Quesnel, 100 Mile House, and Prince George.
“In addition, the City would be required to expend funds for technologies or resources to replace or account for the lost FSS services,” the report says. “This has the ability to affect the financial viability of the WLRA.”
Scotch is one. But that isn't much of a secret.coked-up werewolf wrote: Hope he enjoys his solid gold golf glubs or walk-in humidore or whatever the @#$! he spends it on.
Heckuva job Johnny.
Haha was waiting for a scotch joke. Nice lol.W0XOF wrote:Scotch is one. But that isn't much of a secret.coked-up werewolf wrote: Hope he enjoys his solid gold golf glubs or walk-in humidore or whatever the @#$! he spends it on.
Heckuva job Johnny.
cpl_atc wrote:Yeah, because a jackass like yourself saw this whole thing coming, and you carefully steered your significant investments clear of it. It was only the global investment markets as a whole that missed it, "Johnny" among them. But you caught it, because you're that good.coked-up werewolf wrote:While I appreciate the fact that there is likely a genuine capacity for some fat to be trimmed operationally, I really would like to know what will be done in regards to non-operational areas. It's a bitter pill to swallow when operations will inevitably be trimmed via spurious statistical data and politics while Mr Crichton and team have lost $164m dollars in crappy investments in ABCP that they probably didn't understand and still manage to hand themselves massive bonuses.
pg.52
http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefiniti ... 008_en.pdf
Hope he enjoys his solid gold golf glubs or walk-in humidore or whatever the @#$! he spends it on.
Heckuva job Johnny.
Give me a fucking break, you tool.
Interesting...Just something that may or may not have played a small factor in all this.
The controller sitting working JZA on that night would not have had a RSC for CYYB. Starting about a month before they went off the end the controllers no longer had RSC info for any airports in and around that area. FSS only has that info and at the time they went in, FSS was closed which meant no ATIS and no RSC. Yes YXU has a freq there but were they called? The controller had the ability to give him the hourly metar,any specials as well as the CURRENT RVR,winds and altimeter.....that's it
I'm not sure of any of the details about stuff that I don't know. In fact when it comes down to it...only the silver-tongued serpent lawyers in quiet boardrooms will dictate the outcome of this accident. If Navcanada's reduction of services is at fault to some degree...I suspect rather than taking ownership of their (the suits) mistakes/oversights/GREED...the blame will be re-directed to the pilots. Thank God ALPA is just as "snakey" as the rest of them.aviatrixfss wrote:IABD, I'm not sure who you quoted in your last post, but they are incorrect.
When the AAS is open at YYB, they enter the RSC data into the MIDS system like all other NOTAM's, and all contollers, FSS and anyone on the NC website has access to them. When the AAS is closed, the RSC is sent to YXU FIC and they input it into the MIDS system. An RSC will not self cancel...it must be updated or cancelled. So if there was a valid RSC the controller should have had access to it. FSS does not keep this information secret.
http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1464849Sault Ste. Marie Airport could be losing its overnight flight service station status
Posted By Dan Bellerose
Posted 17 hours ago
Sault Ste. Marie Airport could be losing its overnight flight service station status.
The station, which currently offers navigational assistance to pilots from 8 p.m. until 8 a.m., when the airport control tower is shut down, is among eight such stations identified for closure in a recent Nav Canada report reviewing air traffic services at 46 airports.
“It’s only a proposal at present, there needs to be further extensive review and consultation before a final recommendation is forwarded to Transport Canada,” said Ron Singer, a Nav Canada spokesman in a telephone interview from Ottawa.
“We are still several months away from a final recommendation but yes, it has been proposed that Sault Ste. Marie and several other communities have their flight service station operations curtailed.”
Airport staff, including about a dozen air traffic specialists with the flight service station and eight air traffic controllers, handled nearly 60,000 aircraft takeoffs and landings last year, according to Terry Bos, airport manager. There was minimal overnight traffic.
The Nav Canada proposal recommending closure of the flight service station also recommends extending air control tower operations by three hours, 8 a.m. until 11 p.m., and the installation of automated weather and advisory services.
The tower would handle 97.5 per cent of airport traffic through extended hours, he said, while an automated state-of-the-art weather service would be installed, including 24-hour weather cameras. Traffic advisories would be handled through remote location advisories.
The remote location advisory service, accessed by pilots through a specific radio frequency, is a proven method of service delivery in more than 30 airports.
“Pilots will have all the information they need to need to land through the automated overnight services and remote location advisories,” said Singer.
The airport has fewer than two landings or takeoffs per hour through the overnight, 11 p.m. until 8 a.m., when tower services resume, he said.
The airport manager admitted surprise at the preliminary recommendation, despite knowing its operations were under review.
Best-case scenario was “maintaining the status quo,” he said, with the downside a reduction in control tower operating hours, “not the total elimination of the flight service operations.”
The airport will argue for the status quo at the yet-to-be scheduled consultations.
“We are unique in that we are located on water, with quick-developing weather conditions, as well as our close proximity to U.S. air space,” said Bos.
It will also argue that Sault airport is an expanding facility, with the recent arrival of charter operator Sunwing, the city’s pursuit of Porter Airlines, and increasing numbers of private aircraft.
In the meantime, “we are expecting business as usual for the next six to 12 months, until a final recommendation comes down.”
The numbers have yet to be finalized but Bos is projecting airport landings and takeoffs to be in the 59,000 to 60,000 range for 2008.
If the projection holds true it would mean, “we are one of the busier airports in Northern Ontario but it would only be a week’s worth of activity for (Toronto’s) Pearson International.”
Year-end landings and takeoffs are bloated by the Sault College aviation program activity which accounts for about one-third of such movements, between 15,000 and 20,000 landings and takeoffs annually, said the airport manager.
Commercial aircraft arrivals and departures would not be affected by the changeover.
Air Canada Jazz offers six daily weekday flights, the first departure at 6 a.m. and the last arrival at 12:30 a.m., while Bearskin Airlines’ weekday arrivals and departures are between 8 a.m. and 8 p.m.
Sault College’s last training flight touches down between 8 p.m. and 11 p.m., depending on the season.
Additional airports whose flight service status is threatened, according to the Canadian Autoworkers, which represent 800 flight service specialists across Canada, include Rupert, Smithers and Williams Lake, all in British Columbia, High Level and Peace River, both in Alberta, Saskatoon, Sask. and Rouyn-Noranda, Que.
As well, according to the CAW, reduced hours of operation are proposed at five other stations while 11 remote advisory service sites would also be closed.
The union argues that the closures appear to be more about the current economic crisis rather than any real reduction in traffic levels.
Flight service stations, according to the Nav Canada web site, provide resources for flight planning, access to briefings on weather and other preflight information, aeronautical information, enroute and airport advisory services, vehicle control resources, monitoring of navaids, VHF/DF assistance, and alerting search and rescue of overdue aircraft.
Ten years ago, Nav Canada, reduced Sault Airport control tower operations by four hours daily, from 16 hours to 12 hours, and trimmed staffing by two personnel.
Not one site closed.Hopefully the appeal process will give some results..BigBravo wrote:Is this in exchange for getting completely screwed on the "Declass"?
Yup. Sure.atwork wrote:Ahhh don't worry about it, they will make it up to us with the new contract.
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