Ferrying light singles jobs ?

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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by rooster »

Dyski wrote:Thanks Cat !

I earned my commercial pilot Licence to make FLYING airplanes my profession. I worked two jobs to be able to afford it,studied and went up flying 2 or 3 times a week to become a PILOT... I don't get this industry's mentality of someone having to work slave labour jobs in harsh conditions, get mistreated and paid peanuts for it in order to pay their dues and maybe one day they will see the right seat of that Navajo!! I am a professional pilot and take pride of my licence so think I deserve an entry level job, I ain't asking for a right seat on the new Dreamliner but perhaps a traffic/pipe patrol or an aerial photography position can do ?

I am not bashing the people that chose to go that route and ramp it to get where they are today but that's not for everyone.. end of rant!

Dyski, you are NOT a professional pilot. You have a CPL, but you're unemployed, therefore NOT a professional pilot. Please get that concept through your head first. A lot of other people here are being polite when they're responding, and they've been bang on with their advice, but I don't care how I come across here. You need to get off your high horse and lose the attitude that you've earned the right to fly for someone. You don't determine that, the employer does. He looks at your resume, sees what kind of past experience, or what kind of person you are if you have none, and thinks "yeah, I think he deserves to work for me". Sorry, that's the way it is. If you don't like it, save your money, scrap the multi-ifr, and find a different profession. Now I understand you're keen and you just wanna fly. This is the attitude you'll need. The sense of entitlement is what's going to kill you. Not everyone has to go up north to work the ramp. Many do, and look where those people have ended up? Friends of mine spent anywhere from 4 months - 2 years on the ramp. They didn't like it, but they worked hard, made friends, and almost all of them became turbine captains after 1500 hours. That's not very much experience. What you kids are forgetting is that working in the bush, on the ramp, in the middle of nowhere, is actually a character builder and matures you as a person. Many people bitch about having to do this to earn their first job. Ask them how they felt after. Sense of satisfaction that they truly matured, built character and that is what's going to get them hired by bigger and better things. Now they're in a position to turn jobs down if they don't want them. Here's what else you're forgetting. It's not always the company that determines whether your experience is enough to fly for them, it's the insurance companies. There are hundreds of your kind of threads on here bud, use the search function and do your research. Give your head a shake, lose the chip on your shoulder and change up your attitude a bit.

Good luck!

Europilot wrote:You call BS because you are an uneducated fool who thinks the Canadian way is the only way. 150-200 hour pilots are laughing at you guys. Flying heavy metal at 19-20 years old. Brainwashed fools. Call BS, look at the req'd minimums for EasyJet... FlyBe even pays for part of your flight training. Ie. CPL MEIR. Then onto the Dash or E170/190. Open your eyes! Troll my ass. Come to LGW and say that!
Now, as for this idiot. You come on here proud as sh*t that you skipped the 206's, Navajo's, King Air's and 1900's to go fly a shiny computerized jet eh? Yeah, all the Canadian pilots who are staying put are blind morons ignorant to what's out there in the rest of the world. You are so wise man!!! I'm sure Canadian pilots would be lining up to have their logbooks autographed by you!! Going from 200 hours to the right seat of a jet, see how popular that is in Canada? Ask yourself why it's frowned upon. No, not jealousy. How much is that 200 hour kid going to know entering an Airbus cockpit? He's going to know how to program his cute lil computer (FMS) and make snappy PA announcements. Throw in some real emergencies, where experience and decision making come into play, not the ones where you just follow protocol and you're fine. What happens to the kid? There is no "I shit my pants, please help" button.

Don't know about you, but a 1000 hour navajo captain here, who's flown bush/city, is going to be a helluva lot more of a pilot than the wonderboys in EU flying with not a single bit of experience to take with him into his sweet jet. So, you're kids laughing at us out here really means about as much as pocket lint.

As for pay, like everyone else, I call bullshit. First, you pay 20K + euros for your type ratings (losers). Then you get paid pennies. Don't know what exhaust you've been inhaling but the salaries of button pushers out there is hardly enough to insure you're renault.

People don't leave Canada for many reasons. Some have financial obligations, family commitments, hockey pools, and maybe the simple fact that we want to stay in Canada and not live in some 200 sq foot shithole flat in Leeds.

Oh but you're a stud, you're banging all the hot flight attendants. Give me your license, I'm going to tear it up. Kid's should never be allowed to handle an airplanes.
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by wallypilot »

Europilot wrote:What a load of crap most of you come up with. When I got my CPL I had a sense of entitlement, because this licence meant I could be a professional pilot. Not a rampee, dispatcher or joe Boy. Pilot! So I left Canada and the stupid mentality that you have to be a broke pilot living on KD and treated like crap and hopped right on to a shinny A319. Thank god I left the status quo of the morons in Canada and bailed. As an FO, making more money than a WestJet Capt.
I'm not calling BS at all. I know that's how it can work in Europe. But for those of us not blessed with the credit to pay for the type rating, or the benefit of a Eurozone passport, we have to slog it out in Canada. Having said that, you really do have a typical europilot attitude.

Look, you either pay big bucks for your license and slog it out here in Canada, or you pay ridiculously huge dollars for a license and type rating in Europe, then be a whore to Easy Jet or Ryan air. It's same shit, different pile. So save your self righteous attitude.

Having said that, FWIW, you can progress in Canada without working the ramp or paying for a type rating. It's more common than you might think. You don't hear about it because people don't come on here and complain when this is the case. It's human nature that when we are frustrated we want ask for help, or complain or we want to vent, so you tend to hear much more of the negative experiences than the positives. But I can assure you that most of my colleagues never worked the ramp, and 10-12 years on are now experienced pilots with tonnes of PIC and are getting to the point where they can get any job they are interested in, (in their realm of experience obviously), and make decent money.
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by loopa »

If what Europilot is stating about his career is correct, it must be understood that in order to go through the process of becoming an employable European Pilot flying Airbuses at the age of 19/20, you need a tremendous amount of effort. More so than you need to put in to become an employable Canadian Pilot at 250 hours. Is the outcome necessarily better? I can't tell, because I've only experienced the Canadian way. But from speaking to my friends who are flying across on Thomas Cook, Onur Air, Lufthansa, KLM, and all those big boys over there, they are all there for the right reasons - that being said, pig's who are materialistic and have every STD in the world sneak through the cracks as well, such the case may be when all you care about is picking up flight attendants, and coming on an online forum and rubbing your life style in every body's face. I know this isn't the European attitude for a fact - I've spent nearly a decade living there myself. But, that doesn't go to say that there are a few individuals who slip through the cracks, as the case is anywhere around the world.

End of Rant regarding Euro flying.

As for you Dyski, man oh how I wish there was a way for you to open your eyes. I'm not going to fully blame you for your perspective and demands from this industry, because chances are you have been brainwashed in an environment where the chances of employment was whether never really brought up as an issue, and rather put aside as unimportant, or you were told that you will have no problem because your instructor told you you are his best student. Either way, it really is important for you to understand that with the Canadian aviation industry, you really need the following to succeed (these are of course only my opinion):

- Patience
- A good head on your shoulders
- Social Skills / Networking abilities
- Respectable skills good enough for a carrier to trust you with their airplanes

It's important to understand in my opinion that unlike how important it becomes to score 4's on your flight test and 100% on your written exams during flight training, in the real world, it's not your abilities to grease a landing that scores you an interview. See in my opinion, anybody (unless a blatant idiot), can fly an aircraft. What in my opinion makes a pilot different from another is their awareness about risk mitigation such as human factors, responsibility, leadership, management skills, taking the extra mile to make something work, and most important than all, dedication. A company will value these traits far more than you being able to shoot the ILS down to minimums with your foot, or how fast you can program a CORTE on the 737 FMC.

As well, it's important for you to maintain a good head on your shoulders, because people recognize this very quick. I'll tell you when I was a very new low timer, I had this great self-esteem about my flying abilities. It wasn't until I started networking and finally finding a job (through networking) that I learned that everything I learned in flight school was honestly nothing close to what I needed to learn in order to be a successful aviator. I'll say this again, there's more to it than flying skills. I had to learn this the hard way, as it resulted in some burned bridges. While I dearly miss the relationships I had with certain people before, I can only see that learning it the hard way is making me appreciate my current situation much more. People are taking ME out for drinks and lunch now in efforts to being friends and maintaining connections. And these are people that are employed for companies that must of us are striving towards.

So if I could summarize how you can boost your chances of picking up traits that companies want, I would say that you should go out there, go to companies, start talking to chief pilot's, and chief flight instructors, get a feel for where the industry is at, what they want, and heck who knows, in the mean time you may score some people as friends that can one day be your Chief Pilot at a very notable company!

Keep your chin up pal, and pm me if you're in the YYC/YEG area at anytime and we'll go out for drinks! 8)
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by Lost Lake »

loopa wrote:So if I could summarize how you can boost your chances of picking up traits that companies want, I would say that you should go out there, go to companies, start talking to chief pilot's, and chief flight instructors, get a feel for where the industry is at, what they want, and heck who knows, in the mean time you may score some people as friends that can one day be your Chief Pilot at a very notable company!
If he's so desperate to get a job, why hasn't he emailed his resume yet? Maybe he's waiting for my job to open up! :roll:
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by COMETer »

With due respect, I don't like the way we have to progress in Canada. And I don't like the timidity many of you have, nor the way you all have jumped on EuroPilot for being fortunate enough to fly an Airbus at 250hrs. I'm not a fan of how he comes across, but rightly or wrongly, that is how things move in Europe or the US. How come it can't be more like that here.

We all put in our time, even I have, slogging the ramp in crap places for crap wages to get on in a year or two as an FO and then hopefully climb the ladder that way. I didn't like it when I did it, and I don't like it now. I tolerated it, I put up with it. I signed up to be a pilot, yes there are hiccups along the road, but filing paperwork while hoping for guys ahead of me to leave so I could advance to 'Ho FO sometime down the road was not one of them.

Fast forward a few years, now I'm hoping to get into a jet. Posted about that a couple times last week here on AvCanada, and nearly got my head taken off. Let me play Devil's Advocate: What is so wrong about a guy like myself wanting to go to Jazz so I could progress to the CRJ? Do I not have enough prop time? Have I not paid my dues? I can tell you everything you want to know about round dials and antique GPS and the pea soup weather we fly in, so when a guy like me gets the itch to fly a sophisticated modern airliner with EFIS, FMS, and many other interesting features, everybody things I'm being greedy???

Maybe the mentality of working hard but laying low and hoping things will work out is wrong. I got into this profession to be an airline pilot, not flying boxes for too many years in the o'dark thirty hours. And I'm going to do everything in my power to move my career along, to move up to a jet, to get to a major airline. I wish I could progress faster in my career, but since I don't have Euro citizenship, I gotta make do with what I have, and make good decisions with that info. Just don't fault a guy for being ambitious.

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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

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COMETer wrote:
Fast forward a few years, now I'm hoping to get into a jet. Posted about that a couple times last week here on AvCanada, and nearly got my head taken off. Let me play Devil's Advocate: What is so wrong about a guy like myself wanting to go to Jazz so I could progress to the CRJ? Do I not have enough prop time? Have I not paid my dues? I can tell you everything you want to know about round dials and antique GPS and the pea soup weather we fly in, so when a guy like me gets the itch to fly a sophisticated modern airliner with EFIS, FMS, and many other interesting features, everybody things I'm being greedy???

COMETer
Thats not what you said or how you said it. I dont belive anyone called you greedy. It is expected that people want to progress and move forward, it is the sense of entitlement that as soon as you reach a magical number or have CA printed in front of your license number now, you should be given the keys to whatever you want. This brings us full circle on this thread.

You (this is in general, not directed at you in particular) are not owed anything because you spent 50g's on a cpl or paid your dues in fort nowhere. Some people are more fortunate than others and some people create their own luck. I will be the first to admit that I have had some pretty good luck of late, but I also had 3 very difficult years with little to no flying exept what I paid for. You dont like that, go be a plumber, there will always be toilets clogging up with more shit than some of the posts on avcanada.
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by COMETer »

Thats not what you said or how you said it. I dont belive anyone called you greedy. It is expected that people want to progress and move forward, it is the sense of entitlement that as soon as you reach a magical number or have CA printed in front of your license number now, you should be given the keys to whatever you want. This brings us full circle on this thread.

You (this is in general, not directed at you in particular) are not owed anything because you spent 50g's on a cpl or paid your dues in fort nowhere. Some people are more fortunate than others and some people create their own luck. I will be the first to admit that I have had some pretty good luck of late, but I also had 3 very difficult years with little to no flying exept what I paid for. You dont like that, go be a plumber, there will always be toilets clogging up with more shit than some of the posts on avcanada.



Then what did I say? Not like I'm fresh out of flight school here, a 250hr wonder asking to fly Boeings. I've put in the time on the lower rungs, all the grunt jobs to get the foot in the door. I was simply asking about Jazz and how likely it would be that I would be able to fly the CRJ from Day 1. Not a revolutionary idea there. I have no desire to go to Jazz and fly the Dash. Nothing against the Dash, but I'm going deaf already from the thousands of prop hours I have already. I need to move forward in my career. Plenty of guys before me have done it, from a piston Twin to the CRJ. I've put in YEARS in this profession - was simply asking about career progression that I would have with them. I have no problem being an FO with Jazz for 6-7 years....just put me in the jet so I can be comfortable.
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by mattedfred »

COMETer wrote:I have no desire to go to Jazz and fly the Dash. I have no problem being an FO with Jazz for 6-7 years....just put me in the jet so I can be comfortable.
If you have no desire to fly a Dash8 at Jazz then I highly recommend that you not apply as you may be forced to fly the Dash8.

If you have a problem being an FO with Jazz for more than 7 years then I highly recommend that you not apply as the most junior Captain is on the Dash8 and has almost 11 years of seniority.

Perhaps you should consider Air Canada, Transat, WestJet, Morningstar, CargoJet, Sunwing, CanJet etc?
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by COMETer »

mattedfred wrote:
COMETer wrote:I have no desire to go to Jazz and fly the Dash. I have no problem being an FO with Jazz for 6-7 years....just put me in the jet so I can be comfortable.
If you have no desire to fly a Dash8 at Jazz then I highly recommend that you not apply as you may be forced to fly the Dash8.

If you have a problem being an FO with Jazz for more than 7 years then I highly recommend that you not apply as the most junior Captain is on the Dash8 and has almost 11 years of seniority.

Perhaps you should consider Air Canada, Transat, WestJet, Morningstar, CargoJet, Sunwing, CanJet etc?
Don't worry, I already have. It is my goal to get to a major airline.

However I was also curious about Jazz, as it does offer stability and quality of life.
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by Cat Driver »

I find it interesting how many pilots think flying a jet is such a great thing.

What exactly makes the jets so great?

As to flying airplanes from A to B on ferry flights there can be a lot more to the job than just flying them.
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by Chuck D »

To what Europilot has to say. His attitude may be questionable, or even objectionable, but he is correct as to the difference between Canadian and European aviation. I work over the pond so to speak, and you will find 140-200 hour guys/gals sitting in the RHS of transport category aircraft. For those who are calling bulls$^t on that are incorrect. As for the wages, some EasyJet F/Os are making £65,000 STG, which is about $115,000 CDN. I don't know how that equates to a Canadian wage. I think we must agree that europilot's attitude doesn't do us Canadians any favours here, but what he does say about how things are done here is accurate.
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by cdnpilot77 »

COMETer wrote:Thats not what you said or how you said it. I dont belive anyone called you greedy. It is expected that people want to progress and move forward, it is the sense of entitlement that as soon as you reach a magical number or have CA printed in front of your license number now, you should be given the keys to whatever you want. This brings us full circle on this thread.

You (this is in general, not directed at you in particular) are not owed anything because you spent 50g's on a cpl or paid your dues in fort nowhere. Some people are more fortunate than others and some people create their own luck. I will be the first to admit that I have had some pretty good luck of late, but I also had 3 very difficult years with little to no flying exept what I paid for. You dont like that, go be a plumber, there will always be toilets clogging up with more shit than some of the posts on avcanada.



Then what did I say? Not like I'm fresh out of flight school here, a 250hr wonder asking to fly Boeings. I've put in the time on the lower rungs, all the grunt jobs to get the foot in the door. I was simply asking about Jazz and how likely it would be that I would be able to fly the CRJ from Day 1. Not a revolutionary idea there. I have no desire to go to Jazz and fly the Dash. Nothing against the Dash, but I'm going deaf already from the thousands of prop hours I have already. I need to move forward in my career. Plenty of guys before me have done it, from a piston Twin to the CRJ. I've put in YEARS in this profession - was simply asking about career progression that I would have with them. I have no problem being an FO with Jazz for 6-7 years....just put me in the jet so I can be comfortable.
Progression means that you start in one place and end in another "higher" spot. The start at Jazz is dash f/o, for most, with progression to the left seat and for some, into the RJ or 57. This has been explained, but again you seem to think that because you already have prop time that you desere the bump to a jet without the aggravation of earning that spot with that company. I am willing to be that a lot of the pilots flying at Jazz had significantly more multi time than you have and were happy to accept the dash f/o positions. What makes you better or more important than them? Jazz is clearly not the place for you but I suggest that you not insult the many pilots that were happy and lucky to land a position with Jazz on the dash by telling them that you are superior to them.

By the way, Jazz is a major airline, I dont think you can look at a scheduled carrier with 125+ airplanes with international destinations and not call them a major. For the record, I am not a Jazz pilot and have no vested interest in the company aside from having some friends fly for them.

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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by modi13 »

I think the best occupation to compare being a pilot with is acting: there are far more actors than there are jobs because everyone wants to be one, few make it to the big-time, and almost everyone starts out working an unrelated job like waiting tables. Working the ramp is like working as a gopher for a movie studio and getting some bit parts in return; it sucks, but that's what it takes to pad one's resume and get noticed for an upgrade. If Dyski were an actor, he would be refusing a non-speaking role in a commercial because he took drama in college and he deserves the lead in his own TV series. Everyone has the same pilot's licence, so does that mean that everyone deserves a job? There aren't enough jobs to go around, so how do we create more just to keep all those deserving low-timers employed?
My problem with the European system is that it artificially limits the number of commercial pilots through exorbitant costs; it's possible for a 250 hour pilot to get a job on an Airbus because there are so few people who can afford to get licences and fill those positions. Flying in Europe is a rich man's game, or rather a kid with rich parents. I have the right to live and work in Europe, but the cost of converting my licence alone is more than I can afford, let alone purchasing a type rating. I was barely able to afford my training in Canada, which required going into debt, and if I had done my training in Europe the higher costs would have prevented me from getting anything more than my basic CPL. Pilots in Europe are becoming more elitist and developing an attitude of entitlement because the only people who can afford to fly now are spoiled rich kids. And I'd like to see someone who only knows how to fly using an autopilot deal with a situation like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghd ... n_incident
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by Lost Lake »

To fly in Europe not only involves money but nationality. I know a dozen expats and europeans who have jars and could fly circles around europilot, but can't find jobs. My guess is daddy has a foreign contacts, nationality. :smt058
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by Europilot »

Lost Lake wrote:I know a dozen expats and europeans who have jars and could fly circles around europilot, but can't find jobs. My guess is daddy has a foreign contacts, nationality. :smt058
Who cares! I'm not looking to fly at the Red Bull Air Races. Autopilot, FMS all the goodies. Thanks to the good people at Airbus! And no my daddy didn't get me the job. I do what most people do, apply. Simple concept really. When I did my pilot training I wanted to be an airline pilot and followed through with it. My aspirations wasn't to go up north, instruct, load bags or dispatch. It was to fly heavy metal while I was still young enough to enjoy it. Why get on my case because I did some research, and achieved my goal. :D
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by SunWuKong »

Europilot wrote:Call BS on it. If you are that stupid to think there is no world outside Canada, then maybe you are too stupid to fly a jet.
Well, if you can fly a navajo ifr single pilot, you sure can fly a Boeing/Airbus. FYI I flew both Navajo and Boeing. The "too stupid to fly a jet" means nothing here. If you say "I was too lazy or not smart enough to become a successful lawyer or surgeon, so I became a jet pilot", it would make sense, because to be a jet pilot nothing more than good PPL basic skills is required. If you have them, then with appropriate training you would become a jet pilot. I am sure that the majority of people on earth would be able to become "jet pilot". However for a float pilot (example) who doesn't crash "every year", it requires superior skills. That being said, there is some part of what you say that is kind of interesting, because it may push some student/pilot to think about their situation.

The "deserve" thing. When a wannabe starts in this business, maybe he doesn't automatically deserve to have a nice job, but there is no way to say he doesn't deserve it neither. It all depends on where and when he is to get his first job. The ramp/dispatch/poorly paid first flying job shouldn't be an option, we take it only because most of the time there is no other choice/option to break in this career, that is nothing to do with deserving or not. Doing what it takes means nothing else than respecting the reality of the job market.
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by Lost Lake »

So europilot. Please enlighten us. Which country/ company is prepared to hire and train Canadian 200 hr wonders? And at what cost?
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by BEFAN5 »

Lost Lake wrote:So europilot. Please enlighten us. Which country/ company is prepared to hire and train Canadian 200 hr wonders? And at what cost?

Give him a few hours to answer. He is busy trying to google the answer to your question.
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by Cat Driver »

The last pilot I knew in Europe who was just finishing up his training to start on the 737 had to spend 120 thousand Euro to finish.

Also we had several working the ramp in the airshow circuit who had the money to get the type rating but no offers of employment.

The real money in flying is in the movie industry, the flying is demanding but well worth it.

Before you rush out looking for a flying position in the movie industry make sure the insurance underwriters will insure you.......telling them you deserve the position does not work.
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by LegoMan »

Cat Driver wrote:The last pilot I knew in Europe who was just finishing up his training to start on the 737 had to spend 120 thousand Euro to finish.

Also we had several working the ramp in the airshow circuit who had the money to get the type rating but no offers of employment.

The real money in flying is in the movie industry, the flying is demanding but well worth it.

Before you rush out looking for a flying position in the movie industry make sure the insurance underwriters will insure you.......telling them you deserve the position does not work.
Or any specialty industry. If you want to make some stupid money and drive a truck, I am looking for team drivers to deliver Yogurt from Toronto to Vancouver, $32,000/month. Must own a truck!
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by Europilot »

BEFAN5 wrote:
Lost Lake wrote:So europilot. Please enlighten us. Which country/ company is prepared to hire and train Canadian 200 hr wonders? And at what cost?

Give him a few hours to answer. He is busy trying to google the answer to your question.
You are funny. I'm enjoying a nice sunny day here. To answer your question, which country...all across Europe. Which company...Monarch, Tompson, easyjet, Flybe, Ryanair, Wizzair, Lufthansa, BA. Will they take a 200 hour Canadian licence wonder kid?. Yes and no. I'm canadian but to get hired you must have a JAR CPL MEIR. All said and done, I got it all done at 30,000 Euro. Took out a student loan, to be paid off Feb. '11. Debt free soon, good coin, F/O in a nice A319, jet command by '12.
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sarg
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by sarg »

. D wrote:To what Europilot has to say. His attitude may be questionable, or even objectionable, but he is correct as to the difference between Canadian and European aviation. I work over the pond so to speak, and you will find 140-200 hour guys/gals sitting in the RHS of transport category aircraft. For those who are calling bulls$^t on that are incorrect. As for the wages, some EasyJet F/Os are making £65,000 STG, which is about $115,000 CDN. I don't know how that equates to a Canadian wage. I think we must agree that europilot's attitude doesn't do us Canadians any favours here, but what he does say about how things are done here is accurate.
Just a question . that's 65,000 British Pounds right, if so the current exchange rate brings it to just over a 100K CDN.

http://www.travelex.co.uk/uk/
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trey kule
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by trey kule »

Well, to the original poster, let me give you a bit of encouragement. In the 60's when little planes were being cranked out of factories like cars, I was a 17 year old school kid with about 80 hrs. Who just happened to be standing in the right place and the right time, with a few good friends. I got a job ferrying aircraft (expenses only). Just about failed out of universtiy I took so much time off. What I remember most vividly was how many times I scared myself. I was lucky, I managed to get thorough it and build up the time. When you depart with the intention of arriving with min fuel, for example and arrive with 20G30 xwinds, you have to land.
But things have changed, and the advice most people here are giving you, even though it is a hard pill to swallow , is pretty accurate. The folks I flew for were ex military pilots who did not put any premium on total time. Nowadays, insurance companies, the courts, regulators all have much more of a say in things and the opportunity to fly beyond your experience level is just not there I dont think. 45 years later, I still do occassional ferry flights. It is a changed world with GPS for navigation, generally better equipment and ground based facilities. But it is still challanging work and not an avenue to build time. Get stuck for Wx. Have a mechanical and your cell phone will ring every hour asking where you are. For a young person starting out that can produce a huge amount of perceived pressure to push the envelope. The other issue is when you jump into an unkown plane you simply dont know what condition it is in. Some pro ferry pilots I know, for example, require a top end on the engine before heading out over the water. It is done or they dont fly. And if it isnt done, guess who gets the next shot at doing it.
Nope, at this point in your career I would not look to ferry planes all over the americas, I realize that flight schools and colleges dont make much mention of the difficulty of starting out , or if they do, persepective students either ignore the mention , or believe somehow they are different.
My career was about luck, and I did not have the issues others share, but it is far from typical. I really do empathize when a young person drops off a resume and complains that everyone wants experience but they cant get any. What most of them dont understand, is that experience is necessary. They seem to think they are totally qualified without it.
The only way to get experience is to do things for which you have no experience..Necessary for you, but not for an employer as there really are lots of pilots out there with experience who are looking for jobs..Really. who would you rather hire?
If you really want to fly, bite the bullet and start up the road instead of trying to find a way to be an exception....just my advice.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Ferrying light singles jobs ?

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Back to the topic at hand :roll: , 250 hr pilots seeking a job ferrying light aircraft.

It is extremely unlikely that you get an actual job ferrying aircraft as the demand is not that high and there is an establish pool of insurance approved pilots available.

Experience really does matter because the typical ferry job will start with you being dropped off at a strange airport and given the keys and told to get going. This will be the first time you have seen the aircraft and will have to evaluate it its condition based on the Journey log and what you see. No 250 hr pilot I have ever met knows what to look for in the JL (hint what is not there can be more important than what is) evaluate the state of the engine by reading the stains on the belly and knowing what instruments have to work and what you can live without. Furthermore extra time spent enroute means less (or no profit) so you will be expected to fly in less than optimal (but still safe) weather. The judgement to do that only comes with experience.

I can see how a job ferrying can at first blush, seem an attractive way to gain experience but no legitimate organization will hire a 250 hr person for this work. What you might get is an offer to do a "chisel" ferry. This usually occurs when somebody is too cheap to pay a professional to move an aircraft and figures he can find some low hour wannabe to do it for free. The problem is you will still be unqualified and the likely hood that the aircraft will be a true POS is very high. I would advise extreme caution no matter how initally attractive the chance to get some time is.
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