AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

[Understated]

The complaints you are reading here is a result of pilots being shackled to an antiquated system and then watching the goalposts be moved under a guise of human rights violations. It is nothing more than a cash grab for the "victims" and the mounting lawyers fees leaving the next generation to pay for it and deal with the shattered union.

I find it incredulous that if you repeat the same self-serving, malicious inaccurate statements often enough, you actually start believing your own BS.

What does the fact that Parliament is repealing the mandatory retirement exemption have to do with any alleged "cash-grab" by anyone? Do you honestly believe that the proposed legislative changes to bring the federal sector’s treatment of mandatory retirement into line with the treatment of mandatory retirement by all of the other ten legal jurisdictions in this country has anything at all to do with the provisions of your collective agreement and your alleged right to ensure that its provisions are held paramount? Get real.

Did you not know when you were hired that the mandatory retirement exemption under the statute was an "exception" that was "conditional" on "normal age of retirement," and that when the "normal age of retirement" changed, so too would your precious age 60 limit? Even if you weren’t advised, did that give you some inalienable right to expect the ground rules in this volatile industry to never, ever change?

I know for a fact that there a dozens of others here who saw the writing on the wall over five years ago with respect to the implications of developments outside of your narrow, parochial self-serving, short-sighted union executives’ view of reality, and openly warned those individuals again and again that they should work within the legal constraints instead of bucking them.

Their response? With your unending concurrence and support: slay the messengers; deny reality; spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of your money on the lawyers that you mention, to do what? Fight the inevitable and expose you and all of your peers to immense potential liability that will eventually be paid from wages that come right out of your own pocket, and split the union into internal we-they factions instead of focusing on working together to improve the collective agreement pay parameters and structural pay system prior to entering into contract negotiations with the employer that rubs its hands in glee at what it is facing as a result?

Wake up, son. You have absolutely no-one to blame for your current predicament but yourself. So how about ending your whining about what others are doing to you and your precious right to remain rooted in the 1960's, and start taking responsibility for your own mistakes?

It is patently ironic that the key resources that you really need in your arsenal of response are the ones that you are most intent on ridding yourself of—experience and wisdom.

[mbav8r]

Duranium, Chill abit and read the context of what I was trying to say. I was saying that there should be some type of annual test for FAs to continue thier career, like pilots go through. I also gave that as an example of what aging does to your cognitive awareness, not all pilots will be affected, but certainly some will be. When's the last time you sat for your medical and your doctor started honking at you, while throwing something at you, while giving you a choice of left or right, left or right, hurry up choose, hurry come on choose, honk honk. Anyone on here past a certain age been checked for cognitive ability. I doubt you could tell how someone will react under stress by asking them a series of questions, without some form of a stressor. For the record, I will likely be one of those old confused drivers, unless they come out with some test to determine when I can no longer drive, I'll be driving.

[mbav8r]

Cat, no one is telling them to quit flying, no one is saying go crawl into a hole and die. How many of those things would you have been able to accomplish while still working fulltime at AC. I bet if you had a nice pension to suppliment while you were off around the world flying everything under the sun, it would've been that much more enjoyable.

Flew for French FT1 in Europe, Africa and South America.

Worked for Airbus Industries and received training on the A320 at the factory in Toulouse.

Was stand by pilot for the TV series " Band of Brothers ".

Flew for Miramax.

Flew for eight years as an airdisplay pilot in Europe and held an unrestricted airdisplay authority in Europe.

Made scads of money during that period of my career.

Of course I can understand you would not wish to those things, to each his own.

I retired at 70 only because I chose to, not because I could not pass the flight tests to hold my licenses

[Cat Driver]

I was pointing out the fact that age is not the criteria that determines a pilots flying skills and his/her ability to fly.

It varies from individual to individual and is not limited by age 60....period.

Flying is a paint by numbers type of occupation and can be learned by the vast majority of people wanting to learn same.

[vic777]

Flying is a paint by numbers type of occupation and can be learned by the vast majority of people wanting to learn same.

My wife is getting me a paint by numbers set for my retirement ... I was worried ....

[yycflyguy]

Maybe it's time to stop making phyisicals and flight tests a walk in the park seperate the men from the boy's. That might be the only way to weed out the weak, just remeber that up'd bar means you too.

Sure. I'd be all for that. Including going back to sims every 6 months. Safety first donchaknow.

Did you not know when you were hired that the mandatory retirement exemption under the statute was an "exception" that was "conditional" on "normal age of retirement," and that when the "normal age of retirement" changed, so too would your precious age 60 limit? Even if you weren’t advised, did that give you some inalienable right to expect the ground rules in this volatile industry to never, ever change?

Interesting. That is the same argument that is used when the issue of new hire flat pay for the first 2 years of your career comes up. I see the pattern now, thanks. Oh, and in the hiring process do you actually think that the management pilots sitting across from you during the screening are going to point out that some view the collective agreement as potentially discriminatory?? When guys get an interview, what other airline options are out there? It's not like a candidate can sit back and say I am going to work only for Cathay Pacific because their WAWCON are industry leading. You take the good with the bad and hope that you can help change the bad so it is a better situation for those coming behind you. IMO. Obviously my views of leaving it better than when I arrived are not shared.

[Rockie]

When guys get an interview, what other airline options are out there? It's not like a candidate can sit back and say I am going to work only for Cathay Pacific because their WAWCON are industry leading. You take the good with the bad and hope that you can help change the bad so it is a better situation for those coming behind you. IMO. Obviously my views of leaving it better than when I arrived are not shared.

Thank you. You have perfectly explained the rationale for change and destroyed the "you knew what you were getting into" argument used ad nauseam by people wanting to keep mandatory retirement.

[aviator2010]

I'm sorry I was abusive to the AC pilots.


The way I figure it, they want to keep their advancment going yet it's illegal to just fire the old guy's, how about they do a survior type mentality where every 6 months in the sim the company reviews everyones preformance and eliminates as many pilots as were scheduald to retire. no matter what there will be movment in the company and the weakest pilots on the day of the sim will be eliminated. didn't sleep well, not my problem. not feeling well, he's a barf bag. That ought to improve WAWCON

[LEAFS SUCK]

We were really put on this planet to work like that until we're 70? Pilot or flight attendant, it can be a trying job at times. I'll be doing everything possible to avoid having to work like that in my 60's (if given the privilege to live that long).

Had I quit at 60 I would not have had the privilege of accomplishing the following.

Flew for French FT1 in Europe, Africa and South America.

Worked for Airbus Industries and received training on the A320 at the factory in Toulouse.

Was stand by pilot for the TV series " Band of Brothers ".

Flew for Miramax.

Flew for eight years as an airdisplay pilot in Europe and held an unrestricted airdisplay authority in Europe.

Made scads of money during that period of my career.

Of course I can understand you would not wish to those things, to each his own.

I retired at 70 only because I chose to, not because I could not pass the flight tests to hold my licenses.

Mr Cat, quick question. Why were you only a stand by pilot for whatever movie of the week it was. Did they think you were to old? Does a stand by pilot even fly? I am only half your age and I got tired reading your list. Kick back relax Mr Cat, sounds like you work to much.

[Cat Driver]

Mr Cat, quick question. Why were you only a stand by pilot for whatever movie of the week it was.

Because they must have a standby pilot for a series as big as The Band of Brothers.

Did they think you were to old?

They would not have hired me if I was to old.

I am only half your age and I got tired reading your list. Kick back relax Mr Cat, sounds like you work to much.

Sorry it made you tired, best you stay away from flying for the movie and TV industry as it can be quite demanding.

[LEAFS SUCK]

Band of brothers? Was that the one with Tom Cruise and the flight instructor? All Kidding aside sounds like you have a great job and enjoy it so good for you. I think I just need a nap.

[Cat Driver]

You may need a nap, and when you finish just go back and read what I posted and you will note I am retired and no longer work at anything.

[LEAFS SUCK]

That was a good nap. Did some more reading, you are correct. Sounds like you have had a very rewarding career. Now go and share some of your wisdom with these kids.

[Cat Driver]

Now go and share some of your wisdom with these kids.

Actually for many years I did share my experience with these kids, have a look at my post numbers.

I have been away from this forum for a long time due to personal problems, maybe eventually I will share some more of my experience.

Until then they can read the two comments in blue below all my posts, that may give them a start.

[LEAFS SUCK]

I agree 100% with both your quotes. I know you have shared your experience and valuable knowledge with others for many years. Keep up the good work we appreciate it!

[matra550magic]

Raymond Hall says :

" By the way, I have made calls to your Component President (but not within the last several weeks, however) and she has not returned my calls".

It's just because you're not an Air Canada employee anymore and she just does'nt care about you ! When will you finally understand darling ?

Matra550Magic

[Raymond Hall]

It's just because you're not an Air Canada employee anymore and she just does'nt care about you ! When will you finally understand darling ?

Well, sweetheart, do you understand that I don’t really care if she doesn’t care about me? She should be caring about herself, and about her charges.

When someone offers relevant factual information that would assist her in understanding the complex issues that she has to deal with, one would not expect her to put on the “hear no evil” ear cups, simply because the person offering the relevant factual information is (temporarily) not one of her fellow Air Canada working peers. One would expect her to receive the information, weigh it for value using her own internal resources, and decide whether to use it or not use it, regardless of the source.

I do understand that her decision to not return my calls is her problem, not mine. And that is where I have left it.

[matra550magic]

simply because the person offering the relevant factual information is (temporarily) not one of her fellow Air Canada working peers.

Who's that person offering the relevant factual information that you're talking about ?? Don't tell me it's you ??? Everybody knows you at Air Canada Raymond. You have no more credibility...

Matra550Magic

[Rockie]

simply because the person offering the relevant factual information is (temporarily) not one of her fellow Air Canada working peers.

Who's that person offering the relevant factual information that you're talking about ?? Don't tell me it's you ??? Everybody knows you at Air Canada Raymond. You have no more credibility...

Matra550Magic

I agree that Ray has little credibility amongst the pilots at Air Canada, and none at ACPA. But if you have been paying attention his arguments have been consistently carrying the day at the CHRT and other bodies because quite simply he is in tune with Canadian society and standards, while ACPA who has been consistently losing clearly and obviously is not. So if you want to talk about credibility you should consider ACPA's with the Parliament of Canada and the rest of Canadian society. No one, and I mean NO ONE is taking ACPA's side on this issue. They are embarrassing us, and we are letting them with our own consent and willful ignorance.

[matra550magic]

Hi Rockie,

I totally agree with you. That's why I decided not to worry about the court's decision. There is nothing I can do as an individual in this case. If ACPA can't do the job as a union, WE have to do the job as INDIVIDUALS. We have to COMPLY with the decision of the court but we don't have to AGREE with the decision of the court. I explain : those guys want to come back (or stay longer), that's fine, but prepare yourself ! You better to know your drills like nobody (or you're out of the flight deck !), you better to be ready to do few walk-arounds to make sure that we're safe to go (mainly if it's cold outside !), you better to prepare yourself to do all the legs as PNF (the captain may need to do all take-off and landings for practice purpose ) so after 90 days of this treatment, they'll go to the sim to have 3 take-off and landings. You can denied J/S for those guys, not because they over 60 (that's discrimination ) but just because when you have that kind of guy on the J/S, your blood pressure is rising and you're not 100% fit to fly SO you're unsafe and instead, you take the cute JAZZ flight attendant to pissed them off . Anyway, with the money they made and the money the gonna take from your pocket, they can afford to pay a full fare ticket and maybe they'll find out by themselves that they better to stay home. Is it discrimintation ? Of course but hidden by a legal decision. Anyway, how do you call a pilot who refuse to take a guy on his J/S because the other pilot is from JAZZ or he's an ex CANADIAN pilot ? That's discrimination too isn't it ? But I never heard anybody complaining about that and it's something that we see everyday on the line ! So please guys, have a spine. If like me you don't agree with that decision,just prepare yourself for the battle. Stop giving importance to Ray or his friends, just wait they come back (because they will) and give them a hard time (and it's easy, think about all you can do).
Am I an asshole ? Of course, big time ! I don't have respect for people having no respect for me, my career and my other fellow pilots. So, welcome back guys and study hard !

Matra550Magic