757 for Hawaii?

[mattedfred]

It doesn't. ACPA's grievance regarding Jazz's 757 flying was dismissed on October 25th. Jazz can fly any type of aircraft for any operator other than AC as long as it respects the CPA.

[aviator2010]

Sorry, I didn't know that Thomas Cook flying belonged to Air Canada. Thanks for clearing that one up for me.

the grivance from the ACPA was a house cleaning item that had to be done to protect the scope clause in their CPA. ACPA dosen't really care that JAZZ operates the 757 or any other airplane for any other airline. ACPA just wants to make sure that it's pilots are flying it's jets (over 76 seats) that is.

[Lowjack]

So the 757's are being leased from North American Airlines now:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/WestJet-l ... ?x=0&.v=10

[Brick Head]

Do you guys have a commitment from WJ that if this is successful WJ pilots will fly them next year? That they won't use the maturing code share agreements with Delta and AMR to fly the routes out of the islands instead?

Saretsky is a good leader and will be instrumental in opening up new revenue streams through code share. But his background is code share everything. Are you sure the WJ pilot group will get a fair portion of the "benefit" code share brings to the table? Or are the investors going to get it all?

I'm not stirring the pot. I'm just curious. Code share can be very beneficial to the interests of both sides. As long as it is shared that is.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Do you guys have a commitment from WJ that if this is successful WJ pilots will fly them next year?

No.

You are framing the scenario (meaning your whole post, not just the above quote) in a very 'us vs them' framework. I'm not sure you would be able to see it from our angle, given you are probably thinking in terms of an 'us vs them' mentality, viz a viz our relationship with our management team. If this venture is successful, we at WJ will make money. At some point, a critical mass will come along where it will make sense to invest in a larger aircraft type piloted by our guys/gals. Til then, we will tinker.

[Brick Head]

Your right. I'm jaded. No two ways about it.

And no this doesn't have to be an us versus them thing at all. Code share can benefit all. It can increase traffic to the point of viability on routes that otherwise wouldn't be viable. That creates revenue growth and jobs. All good things.

I was just asking if you had a commitment to use code share to the mutual benefit of all stakeholders. I also realize that at WJ maybe that commitment is not required. It is simply implied.

It would be nice to see some of the jobs created, created right here in Canada, rather than simply watching foreign carriers capture the lion share, or all of the international work.

I realize you have your own ways of dealing with this issue. I was simply asking if your expectation is that some of this work will flow your way at some point. Based on Mr. Saretsky's back ground, and what is transpiring now with the pace of code share, it would seem to the outside observer, that you don't expect much in the way of international job growth within your ranks.

Again I am just curious. Is that okay with your pilot group?

[Rotten Apple #1]

Some WJ pilots have concerns about wet leasing.

[aviator2010]

Some WJ pilots have concerns about wet leasing.

don't worry I'm sure some day you'll grow out of the regional airline that your code shares are making you

[Rotten Apple #1]

don't worry I'm sure some day you'll grow out of the regional airline that your code shares are making you

I've reached the pinnacle of my career, Aviator. What have you reached, grade ten?

[aviator2010]

not yet

[cyeg66]

not yet

Your levul of speling conferms that...

[LisaS]

So you`re off for Christmas Break at school. Is that why we`re being pepperd by your shit posts

[JestWet]

Jonny, while I do agree with your assessment of Aviator's posts as "douchebag-ish" he & brickhead are hinting at something that has been worrying me for a while. While you may have reached the pinnacle of your career here at westjet, I, as a first officer, haven't quite reached it. I love my job & I'm grateful for it but I do want to become a captain someday. For the time-being I think these are positive things but I just hope that this wet-leasing arrangement & the aggressive pursuit of codeshares doesn't come at the expense of our own internal growth.

[Stoptheworld]

Can we please turn this thread to something far more important, like, what are the amenities of NAA's 57? It turns out I will be on them for 7 hours in April and I was counting on the onboard TV to keep the kidlets entertained (at least for a couple hours). Am I going to have them (and possibly myself) sedated now?

Merry Christmas All!

[Rotten Apple #1]

No worries WestJet. I understand your concerns. Check your company email. I think you'll agree the terms of the wet lease are pretty restrictive. GS seems to me the smartest thing we've latched on to in a long while; he's not about to blow his opportunity here by alienating the work force.

Which brings up a slightly off-topic point I wanted to mention before I sign off for the year (fat chance!!):

We shouldn't ever lose sight of the big picture here. The reason it's such a great place to work is precisely because of the culture, which includes our working relationship with management. I believe it does take work to keep this relationship healthy, and from time to time there will be rough spots. But let's not ever get in to the mindset where we cut our nose off to spite our face.

From time to time, very rarely though, I run into the odd individual (is that enough qualifications) agitating for change. "You know, maybe the WJPA has outgrown it's effectiveness..."; that kind of stuff. While I am the eternal optimist, I don't wish to be a patsy, seeing through the world through rose colored glasses, while some slick fast talking yankee comes through the door and I'm holding a few beads in exchange for having sold the island.

So instead, I remind myself, and 'Mr/Miss Odd Individual' about how the world works in my view. What we have to remember is where we have come from. And how we got here. We got here due to trust. The company hired me trusting I would do my job, and work to better the culture. I in turn trust that our management team members will do right by the company and the culture, and right by me.

In Brick Head's world, everything won by the employee group has, no doubt, been bargained for. It is not a Trust relationship. It is a sporting event, an adversarial battle where each side looks out for the their own interests. I give you something and you give me something in return. Our world here is not like that.

Why would the company ever decide to give me, a commuter, free travel back and forth to work? Or pay for my parking passes? Did I have to give something in return? No. No No NO!

A more recent example: I get an unsolicited email from our management team one week ago advising me that this year, all pilots and FAs away over Christmas will be entitled to bring one person (of their choice) on one overnight, with confirmed return travel. Free. Did I have to bargain anything away? No. Did I ask for such a creature? No. Maybe someone did. In any event, someone in management felt it important to go above and beyond for the culture. But I think you have to keep in mind these types of workplace enhancements. And not take them for granted. Were this an adversarial arrangement, us versus them, you might have seen these types of arrangements, but only as part of a give and take, and only at negotiation time. Remember that.

The next time you're flying with someone who is agitating for a change to the working relationship, bring up these things. Challenge them. Tell them to take their industry standard stats and figures and shove it up their hole sideways, because industry standard is adversarial, and that's not how we got to where we are today. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

So, am I worried about a this wet lease? Why would I be? JestWet will get his upgrade in time, and in time, any and all concerns will disappear.

It is about trust, my dear JestWet, and I believe it exists here.

[Mr. X]

Someone pass me an airsickness bag.

[Brick Head]

In Brick Head's world, everything won by the employee group has, no doubt, been bargained for. It is not a Trust relationship. It is a sporting event, an adversarial battle where each side looks out for the their own interests. I give you something and you give me something in return. Our world here is not like that.

Ain't that the truth!

Some WJ pilots have concerns about wet leasing.

Actually wet leasing shouldn't really be that much of a concern. Generally it is a stop gap solution until a permanent one can be put in place. For example ACPA allowed a wet lease between FRA and YYZ for freight. It was a stop gap solution from the time the 747combi left to the arrival of the 777.

Code share on the other hand, is a permanent solution to increase revenue streams and access to larger markets.

Again as an outside observer it appears to me that the WJ BOD made a decision on how to access international markets, and these revenue steams, when Mr. Saretsky was made CEO. Look no further than his background with Alaska. Look no further than the pace of code share agreements to date.

Again. There is nothing wrong with code share. The question for pilots is simply are we going to get a piece of the benefit?

Maybe this isn't an important issue for the group?

[jjj]

Some WJ pilots have concerns about wet leasing.

don't worry I'm sure some day you'll grow out of the regional airline that your code shares are making you

Aviator 2010,

Firstly, as far as an airline may be regional - what would be wrong with that? Your post seems to use to term 'regional' with a rather negative spin. Care to comment/back pedal?

Secondly, what is it about the WestJet network that makes it 'regional?' Are you even aware of the area of operation that a WS pilot is responsible for?

Again Aviator you come out swinging and only end up sounding dumber in the process.

You still have 10 more days to get in a few more asinine posts before the year is done.

Have a great day 'flying' - hopefully your computer doesn't freeze up.

JJJ

[whiteguy]

Can we please turn this thread to something far more important, like, what are the amenities of NAA's 57? It turns out I will be on them for 7 hours in April and I was counting on the onboard TV to keep the kidlets entertained (at least for a couple hours). Am I going to have them (and possibly myself) sedated now?

Merry Christmas All!

Shouldn't count on the live tv on Westjet, It doesn't work once your an hour of the coast anyway.

[mduffy]

This will be an amazing thread to look back at in 5 years!

- Will the WestJet flights have the American flag on the tail?

- Will a WestJet Captain fly a 757 for $76,400.00? If not, will the company pay more to use a WJA crew to maintain the good relationship they presently enjoy?
($91/hr x 70 hr mnth http://www.willflyforfood.com/airline-p ... lines.html)

[aviator2010]

Firstly, as far as an airline may be regional - what would be wrong with that? Your post seems to use to term 'regional' with a rather negative spin. Care to comment/back pedal?

It's your company's goal to be one of the top 5 international airlines in the world. I just don't think all the employees expected to to reach this goal via CX/FRA/AA, and if mgmt is lying to you about that what eles are they lying about?

- Will a WestJet Captain fly a 757 for $76,400.00? If not, will the company pay more to use a WJA crew to maintain the good relationship they presently enjoy?

that's a second year FO's pay with a little over time not sure where you got that nuber but it's not really a concern

[mduffy]

aviator2010 - that's a first yr Captain's wage. ((91 x 70) x 12)

To be fair, a 12 yr captain is at $138/hr or $115,920. These numbers from June 15, 2009.

They have a 6% 401K top-up. Regardless... pretty inexpensive.

[CCR]

[Brick Head]

It's your company's goal to be one of the top 5 international airlines in the world. I just don't think all the employees expected to to reach this goal via CX/FRA/AA, and if mgmt is lying to you about that what eles are they lying about?

Aviator2000,

I can see why your comments rile the WJ folks up. Lying? WJ has been extremely upfront about the route they are taking to be an international player. I mean really? I have never heard WJ ever say they will get bigger aircraft. I have heard them say repeatedly, that they have a short list of 70 potential code share partners. That they want to code share to ever corner of the earth. Pretty transparent if you ask me.

It is up to them to decide if they want to accept the direction or not. Seems to me they must be okay with it. Not everyone wants to fly bigger hulls. Not everyone wants to assume the risk associated with international expansion. Believe it or not some are just happy and thankful, for what they have. Stability is worth something after all. And they don't do just OK for 737 drivers as CCR puts it. They do damm ok.

I was just asking if they had any kind of commitment that they would get to participate in the expansion with hulls and jobs. That is it.

Thanks for the answer by the way.

[Tiny Voices]

aviator2010 - that's a first yr Captain's wage. ((91 x 70) x 12)

To be fair, a 12 yr captain is at $138/hr or $115,920. These numbers from June 15, 2009.

They have a 6% 401K top-up. Regardless... pretty inexpensive.

Is that the North American pay scale that you are posting? Because it sure as heck isn't ours!

Never mind! Figured it out. Why would we use another companies pay scale as opposed to our own, or one that we negotiate for ourselves to fly a larger aircraft?

And to be sure, you will never see a 757 in WJ colours flown by a WJ crew! It's not that we'll never bring the 200+ seater flying in house. It's that we won't do it with 20+ year old aircraft with 30+ year old technology.