LifeGuard 3 King Air B200 off runway Maple Creek SK

[FICU]

Does this airport not have runway lights and ARCAL?

[BadgerGirl]

It has runway lights, as can be seen in the second picture I posted.
I don't know what the other thing is that you refer to.

[Beefitarian]

ARCAL is a system that a pilot can use his radio to turn them on with.

ARCAL lighting: key mic 3 times within 5 seconds for 15 minutes lighting duration

[ipilot54]

While it may not have any direct significance in this incident you may want to ask this question:

Why does Saskatchewan operate these aircraft with only ONE pilot while every other province operates with two trained pilots on similar aircraft? In fact, it is REQUIRED by the other provinces on Air Ambulance service.

[Caracrane]

Too bad. Brand new B200 delivered in 2007, would brake de-ice system could have helped ? Cause those guys are no juniors.

[BadgerGirl]

FYI, I showed this thread to the mayor of Maple Creek and he is bringing all of it to council to read and discuss in an effort to learn what municipal governments can do to improve small airports.

Knowledge is power.

[BadgerGirl]

While it may not have any direct significance in this incident you may want to ask this question:

Why does Saskatchewan operate these aircraft with only ONE pilot while every other province operates with two trained pilots on similar aircraft? In fact, it is REQUIRED by the other provinces on Air Ambulance service.

I will ask that. Today even.

Thanks.

[Caracrane]

KISS_MY_TCAS there could be many reasons for that accident no doubt about it and it can happen to anyone here at the right place and the wrong set of circumstances.

In the final analysis there may be a cause determined but by the time the findings are released few will recall this event.

Remember the flurry of speculation here when that Dash 8 went snow plowing, was a cause ever determined?

So right, +1 Big Cat.

[Cat Driver]

Do they have a sms

In what way would SMS change what happened to that airplane?

[NO LINK*]

While it may not have any direct significance in this incident you may want to ask this question:

Why does Saskatchewan operate these aircraft with only ONE pilot while every other province operates with two trained pilots on similar aircraft? In fact, it is REQUIRED by the other provinces on Air Ambulance service.

It was used as an excuse in the 1990's as a cost-cutting measure because the province was broke. Now (and for quite some time) there have been no good reasons NOT to crew aircraft with two pilots. I suspect if you dig deeper you would find no objection to a crew change at the operational level.

The culture is firmly in place. Sask may have grown from a have-not province--but still in many respects remains a will-not province. It is frequently refered to a backwater of aviation, and Federal collegues will tell you that unless one leaves the province for a period of time to sample a different way of doing things, they lead a sheltered life.

Medevacs provide a unique service throughout this country. The majority of this service is conducted outside 'normal' working hours. On weekends and holidays too. There is no doubt a place for local communities (hospitals/road ambulance) to ensure the local infrastructure (runway/aerodrome) remains adequately maintained 24-7, 365 days a year.

[Hedley]

Two pilots is good, but three pilots is better. And, if they had four pilots on board, nothing bad could ever have happened.

[MrWings]

Thanks everyone again, you have a very kind forum. Most forums this large resist and grandstand for new members. You guys have not.

It is because of the picture you posted. We are all on our best behaviour in hopes of one day partying with BadgerGirl.

Now if you had come on here saying you were fresh out of aviation college, paid for by your parents, and easily landed your first job after buying a PPC, well, the reception wouldn't have been so cordial.

[MrWings]

There is no doubt a place for local communities (hospitals/road ambulance) to ensure the local infrastructure (runway/aerodrome) remains adequately maintained 24-7, 365 days a year.

The problem is that this costs money. And a small municipality doesn't have an endless supply of money to ensure 24-7, 365 service happens. Especially when there are days, even weeks, when no aircraft land there.

Yes, it is important to pilots to have the facilities maintained. But it is up to pilots to ensure that they are. The only time things will change is if we refuse flights to airports where maintenance is questionable. When a community becomes irrate, they will be forced to implement procedures that satisfy the needs of an operator.

The only stumbling block is the industry itself. As you know, if one operator refuses, another will try to get in.

[co-joe]

It's interesting to me that a discussion about Beta ensued after someone suggested that the props appeared to show evidence of being under power at the time of impact... I'd like to disagree with this assessment.

It looks to me that the opposite is true. Props under load, like would be the case in an attempted go around or late baulked approach and subsequent ground contact, would actually be bent forward. If they contacted the ground under say full reverse power there would likely be pieces of them embedded in the fuselage and scattered all over the runway. IMHO of course.

Those props look to me to be bent quite back, which to me suggests that the engines were not developing power at the time they came into contact with the ground. My guess is that the engines were at idle, or shut down and wind milling, and props may have been feathered at the time the gear collapsed.

Oh and glad no one was hurt. Had a few close calls myself on snow covered runways. Worst was tumbler ridge, 1/2 inch dry powder snow covering a layer of sheet ice you could have played hockey on. First pax to step off the air stair had one leg go each direction simultaneously landed flat on his keester.

[BadgerGirl]

Thanks everyone again, you have a very kind forum. Most forums this large resist and grandstand for new members. You guys have not.

It is because of the picture you posted. We are all on our best behaviour in hopes of one day partying with BadgerGirl.

Now if you had come on here saying you were fresh out of aviation college, paid for by your parents, and easily landed your first job after buying a PPC, well, the reception wouldn't have been so cordial.

Aha, caught you - the photo went up *after* everyone was nice.
If my parents had paid for college, I would have been a doctor. I could only afford to be a reporter.
But, it affords me the opportunity to register for web forums once in awhile, so I'm not bitter.

Also, not sure if this is of interest to anyone, but I received a newser from the RCMP about another incident:
"RCMP members from Regina Detachment are currently on route to a controlled aircraft landing which was reported this afternoon (Jan 6) at 3:35 p.m. The aircraft is believed to be a Cessna and it landed in a field approximately 11.8 nautical miles northwest of Regina. There was only the pilot on board and he was uninjured. The plane did suffer some damage."

[BadgerGirl]

Here is the longer story on the incident:
http://thebadger.ca/2011/01/03/plane-cr ... k-airport/

[Prairie Chicken]

Well, I was a little late to this thread but have a few thoughts to add.

I think the aerodrome operator has been getting a bit of a bad rap here. As a registered aerodrome the Town seem to have fulfillled their obligations by notifying the FIC of the runway conditions. The pilot apparently did the right thing by checking the aerodrome conditions & NOTAMS before the flight. He could have called the operator for an up-to-the hour report on the runway condition--something some guys forget about--but it shouldn't have been necessary if the FIC had passed along the relavent information. It sure sounds like Nav Can have dropped the ball since the runway conditions were not provided to the the pilot when requested. I would think this is a significant issue that needs to be investigated by the TSB & possibly TC as well.


If true, it's also significant to me that SK are not using two crew on their medevac King Airs. It may or may not have been a factor in this case, but hopefully this accident will be the impetious to move SK to a two-crew operation.

I must add that it was a pleasure to see BadgerGirl trying to give an accurate account of a highly technical topic. Good for you! Now, if we could only get your counterparts in the bigger centers to make the same efforts!

[BadgerGirl]

Thank you!

Now, where would a good place be to start a thread on the merits of having two pilots as opposed to one?

[rigpiggy]

Mods it maybe time to send this and the learjet accident over to the other topic area

[turbo-prop]

Why is everyone so hell bent on two crew? Is it because you want a job at the gov't? They have been operating single pilot for quite a while without a major incident. Yes there was the La Ronge vs deer incident two crew would not have helped there either. It is not hard to fly a king air single pilot and understand why everyone is making such a big deal over it. (past forums included) They fly fairly new planes that have FMS, EFIS (proline 21 which even shows you were you are on the approach plate). They are essentially doing flight management and turning the autopilot off to land.

[BadgerGirl]

What are the potential consequences for the pilot?

And how many believe a second pilot would have helped?
And if there is no benefit to having a second pilot, then why do the other provinces have a larger crew than Saskatchewan?

[albertdesalvo]

where would a good place be to start a thread on the merits of having two pilots as opposed to one?

Have any dead horses you need beaten?

[Cat Driver]

Two engines:

Two sets of flight instruments:

Two sets of communication and navigation radios:

Two sets of flight controls:

.............................................................................

One pilot:


Anyone see something questionable in the above?

[BadgerGirl]

where would a good place be to start a thread on the merits of having two pilots as opposed to one?

Have any dead horses you need beaten?

I was advised to start a new thread for that topic. Just trying to adhere to local custom.

[albertdesalvo]

On aviation forums (not just this one, all of them) there are certain topics that have been beaten to death for years and years and years. This is one of them. I know you're new and eager to learn, which is great, but the subject really has been done to death.