Opportunities overseas?

[Typhoon]

Hey there,

It seems there have been a lot of posts about what to do once you've got your CPL and the best way to get hours for that "dream job" on the forums lately.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid I have to add to it . There have been great suggestions regarding jobs and careers in Canada, however I was wondering if anyone would be able to give advice on opportunities overseas, or be able to point me in the right direction as to where I could get more information.

I currently have a dual citizenship (Canadian and British) so I was wondering what sort of market this would open up for me. From my understanding, I'm pretty sure I can live and work anywhere in the EU, but would this be the case with a pilot?

Any help is greatly appreciated,

Thanks!

[ajet32]

Europe: Well first you need a JAR licence that means 14 exams and unless you qualify (ICAO ATPL) you have to take structered classes. Following the CPL/Frozen ATPL you will likely need a type rating. Unfortunatly pay for training type ratings are the standard in the EU market unless you are hired by a major national carrier.
Last winter I worked with a number of contract pilots from Europe. All had paid for at least the starting type rating some for more than one.
The pay if you get hired may be better but costs are higher as well. The likes of Ryanair and Easyjet hired fresh pilots but it costs a great deal to get the entrance ticket.
If bush flying is your plan you might try Maun in Botswana, but you have to go there and hang out and compete with all the Saffers and others looking for work.
There is far less General Aviation/Air Taxi type flying in Europe than here in canada.
Having worked overseas and likely going back it has much to recommend but there is no shortage of qualified applicants in the Euro market.
Best of luck.

[Typhoon]

Great thanks ajet. Are there other places around the world, not necessarily in the EU that the dual citizenship could come in hand or open other markets?

[Jerz]

There are jobs in Europe, Africa and Far East, but unless you are well qualified and very experienced, they pay sh*t, and treat you likewise. No different then here at home.
It seams that the latest in cost cutting measures are the cadet programs. Plan on spending up to $200k on licenses and ratings, if you go that route.
I think your best bet is bite the bullet and head up North. With lots of hard work, right attitude, and some luck, you will make it. Who knows, you may even enjoy it. I did.

[KenoraPilot]

Voyageur Airways is hiring.

[Panama Jack]

In these modern times, Canada is the place where you build your hours and "pay your dues", and overseas is where you go for the "dream job."

[KK7]

In these modern times, Canada is the place where you build your hours and "pay your dues", and overseas is where you go for the "dream job."

While working overseas, I definitely see the opposite, but it depends where overseas you're talking about. Overseas means everywhere outside of Canada and maybe the US (at least this is what people use it to define). Overseas in western Europe is where one needs a lot of experience and money to get started. Overseas in Africa is a place where people go to get a start in their career due to lower requirements. Asia is a mixed bag of both...

[snapperpro]

With those 2 licences and dual citizenship getting a job overseas with any company is easy. Depends on where you work. As long as you are paid by the company you can work anywhere. Better get your US licence, not too hard these days, just the air regs. Also you are better getting the job with a Canadian, US, British, Australian or SA company and then work for them overseas. I speak from experience.

[Typhoon]

Great, thanks for all of the comments. Would anyone happen to know of anywhere in Africa/Asia that hires low time pilots? Flying in that sort of environment has always interested me.

[KK7]

Great, thanks for all of the comments. Would anyone happen to know of anywhere in Africa/Asia that hires low time pilots? Flying in that sort of environment has always interested me.

Personally, until you know the lay of the land, I highly recommend working in Africa with a Canadian company. This way you know that the operation is relatively safe compared to what's out there. Not saying all companies based in Africa are bad and scary, just saying there are lots of both good and bad, and the bad can be pretty terrifying. However, lucky for you there are plenty of safe Canadian operators in Africa.

Here is a thread in the Specialty Air Services forum regarding some humanitarian type flying with Canadian operators:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=68955

There are also VFR operators such as Sander Geophysics and Fugro Airborne Surveys.

Flying in Africa can appear to be a difficult part of the industry to break into while sitting here in Canada, but once you get over there, you meet lots of people easily and it's not hard to network. But if you can get on with one of the above mentioned companies in Canada, you'll get a good look at what your options are over there.

[Typhoon]

Great, thanks for all of the comments. Would anyone happen to know of anywhere in Africa/Asia that hires low time pilots? Flying in that sort of environment has always interested me.

Personally, until you know the lay of the land, I highly recommend working in Africa with a Canadian company. This way you know that the operation is relatively safe compared to what's out there. Not saying all companies based in Africa are bad and scary, just saying there are lots of both good and bad, and the bad can be pretty terrifying. However, lucky for you there are plenty of safe Canadian operators in Africa.

Here is a thread in the Specialty Air Services forum regarding some humanitarian type flying with Canadian operators:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=68955

There are also VFR operators such as Sander Geophysics and Fugro Airborne Surveys.

Flying in Africa can appear to be a difficult part of the industry to break into while sitting here in Canada, but once you get over there, you meet lots of people easily and it's not hard to network. But if you can get on with one of the above mentioned companies in Canada, you'll get a good look at what your options are over there.

Thanks KK7! I'll take a look at those companies in the morning. It's kind of late and need to get up early

Appreciate all the help.

[Eric Janson]

There are 2 ways to work overseas - as a National or an Expat.

As a National you will have to have the appropriate passport allowing you to live/work in the country. With an EU member passport you can work in all EU countries. In reality you will need to be fluent in the local language to stand any chance of employment.

Step 2 is to obtain the necessary Licences. This is an expensive proposition.

After that you will be competing with other low time Pilots for jobs - there are low time Pilots everywhere.

With experience and Type Ratings you have the option of becoming an Expat.

You are hired for your qualifications and are generally working on a contract. The company looks after the Licence conversion. A National will always have priority over you and if things turn bad you will be the first one out. Same happens when enough Nationals have been trained.

The Expat route is normally a one-way street. There is no way back. Once an Expat - always an Expat.

[KK7]

There are 2 ways to work overseas - as a National or an Expat.

As a National you will have to have the appropriate passport allowing you to live/work in the country. With an EU member passport you can work in all EU countries. In reality you will need to be fluent in the local language to stand any chance of employment.

Step 2 is to obtain the necessary Licences. This is an expensive proposition.

After that you will be competing with other low time Pilots for jobs - there are low time Pilots everywhere.

With experience and Type Ratings you have the option of becoming an Expat.

You are hired for your qualifications and are generally working on a contract. The company looks after the Licence conversion. A National will always have priority over you and if things turn bad you will be the first one out. Same happens when enough Nationals have been trained.

The Expat route is normally a one-way street. There is no way back. Once an Expat - always an Expat.

There is a third way, and that is to work as a contractor or as an employee of a Canadian company that operates overseas. The company will obtain visas for you and you will fly Canadian registered aircraft.

[yycflyguy]

In these modern times, Canada is the place where you build your hours and "pay your dues", and overseas is where you go for the "dream job."

When you were young it was; go overseas to pay your dues and then go overseas for the dream job.

[kilpicki]

All fine and well, you work for a CAD company flying CAD machines and get paid into a CAD bank acct and pay CAD tax. You get a Tax break, BFD
After a while when you get to know a lot of expats flying for all the different companies you get to know some of the different ideas on the tax thing. Like why when you work in a hell hole for half a year do you pay tax to Canada.

Myself I did the self employed thing for 4 or 5 yrs and it was ok and I paid into CPC etc.
But after a while you realize there is a better way and if you work for a non CAD company you can do a LOT better for take home money. A LOT better.
I posted this before and some goody 2 shoes said I dont want to cheat the Gov't. Who Mr, Martin the ex PM with his company CAD Seamship Lines reg in Bermuda so as to not pay CAD taxor the big boys who move millions overseas and pay no tax, give me a break. No one cares if you earn $120.000 and pay no tax, peanuts.

[heavymetal]

What is the best way to keep the tax man away then?

[Cat Driver]

What is the best way to keep the tax man away then?

You must have the proper paper work,,,,,such as Euros, Pound Sterling, U.S.D. ETC.

[KK7]

If you work in any kind of exploration (such as survey), or UN contract, you get a tax credit where you get approx 80% of your regularly owed income tax back federally, and various amounts back provincially depending on province (some provinces none, Ontario 80%).

This is of course as long as you don't work more than 10% of the time in Canada, vacation does not count or matter, and for a minimum period of at least 6 consecutive months.

I've done both and it is easy and straight forward.

[kilpicki]

Done both and its easy

I work with a lot of expats who pay 0 tax, been doing it for years with no problems. So if you want to contribute, do it. We love you guys.

[WestCoastPilot]

Slightly off topic but still pertinent:

I am leaving for a job overseas next week. I tried to get a Skype phone number, but they did not offer Canadian phone numbers through their service. What is the best way to get a web-based phone number that will reliably answer all my Canadian calls. I don't mind getting a new Canadian phone number for this, I just want the service to be reliable.

Thanks for all inputs

WestCoast Pilot

[KK7]

Done both and its easy

I work with a lot of expats who pay 0 tax, been doing it for years with no problems. So if you want to contribute, do it. We love you guys.

It's possible, but you quickly realize that at least a small portion of your taxes do in fact go towards something useful, such as healthcare and other benefits. Granted if you are overseas all the time, Canadian healthcare won't get you far, but supplemental insurance being far cheaper than full coverage, is supplemental, and requires you to have current coverage at home. I know quite a few folks who realized this far too late and end up paying through the nose to get an unexpected problem fixed. Check with your employer to make sure you know what they do and do not cover for you, and make sure you get all the benefits you will loose by not being in Canada anymore.

[Garrett Power]

Are there any Canadians flying for voyageur that live in africa with their families? Is this at all possible?

[KK7]

I'm not aware of anyone living in Africa with a family. Some people don't go home for long periods of time, some live in the Caribbean. But I'm sure it could be possible if you live there now.

[JTF01]

Are there any Canadians flying for voyageur that live in africa with their families? Is this at all possible?

I don't work for Voyageur, but 98% of the locations they fly out of (Afghanistan, DRC, Sudan), you wouldn't want your family near.

About the only Voyageur "base" that it would be possible is Entebbe, Uganda, which is actually a surprisingly decent suburb of Kampala, the capitol city.