My company requires a new hire to sign an intitial 2 year bond. They dont have to pay for their training as long as they dont up and leave in the first 2 years. We run a senior aircraft and movement is far and few between, but when young guys get hired they usually have other longterm goals such as Westjet. All my company wants is a comitment from the hire. Its fair.
Yes, the owners can afford the airplane and expenses, true, but they are not stupid people. They will not be screwed out of any amount of money. Unlike us pilots, they own an airplane for a reason.
Training bond case law.
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Hawkerflyer
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Re: Training bond case law.
"Six of us broke formation, five Jerries and I". - George "Buzz" Beurling
Re: Training bond case law.
You're right, you can't compare other industries to avaition because in other jobs you pay for your training and than are paid well after. As for being a doctor it's only free in your first few years. I have a few doctor friends who are doing their residencies and make more than I've EVER made as a pilot and they're not full our doctors yet.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Training bond case law.
I find this comparing of the occupation of pilots to doctors to be bizarre at best.
To be a Doctor requires one to have years of advanced education.
You can be a successful pilot with grade eight.
To be a Doctor requires one to have years of advanced education.
You can be a successful pilot with grade eight.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Beefitarian
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Re: Training bond case law.
True story, during career days in high school. I wanted to be a pilot. The councelors told me my marks were not high enough for college. So I didn`t look into it further.Cat Driver wrote:I find this comparing of the occupation of pilots to doctors to be bizarre at best.
To be a Doctor requires one to have years of advanced education.
You can be a successful pilot with grade eight.
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RenegadeAV8R
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Re: Training bond case law.
While it is true that to become a physician requires several years of education (doctor is a misnomer since these "doctor" do not have a PhD), nobody can be a successful pilot with *only* a grade eight. Your successful career pilot will have far more knowledge then somebody just out of grade eight.... comparing of the occupation of pilots to doctors to be bizarre at best.
To be a Doctor requires one to have years of advanced education.
You can be a successful pilot with grade eight.
IMHO once trained, it is *way* easier to work as a physician than to work as a pilot; among others, a physician is not required to do recurrent training and is not required to learn new things during is career.
Totally irresponsible, unnecessary, dangerous, immature and reprehensible. In other words brillant!
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Cat Driver
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Re: Training bond case law.
I was saying that as far as formal education in school grade eight is sufficient formal schooling to go on and learn whatever one needs to know to be a successful working pilot and have a successful career flying most anything out there including jet airliners.nobody can be a successful pilot with *only* a grade eight
Am I missing something here?
What exactly is so difficult about being a pilot as an occupation that grade eight would not be sufficient to fly most anything for a living?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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cdnpilot77
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Re: Training bond case law.
RenegadeAV8R wrote:
IMHO once trained, it is *way* easier to work as a physician than to work as a pilot; among others, a physician is not required to do recurrent training and is not required to learn new things during is career.
Been a long day so maybe I am missing the joke, but this statement is, among others, completely false
Re: Training bond case law.
So tell me , who do we as pilots compare to , not doctors as according to Cat grade eight will do , certainly not welders or skilled trades people because they would surely not put up with indentured servitude. So I ask , what are we ? Please enlighten us with you 50 years plus experience cause I sure as hell can't figure it out. I think we are getting a raw deal in todays aviation. Bonds , working two jobs, credit card dept , student loan dept , low pay , long hours. I mean are we cutting off our nose to spite our face. Is this what we signed up for.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Training bond case law.
I will try to explain how I found aviation.
There were as many pilots for each job available when I started as there is today and the cost for training was about the same as today when compared to what we made working outside of aviation.
It was a long difficult road from getting my commercial license to the point in my career where my pay was sufficient to live a decent life style.
As the years passed my ability to earn more improved but it was not until I was in my sixties that I was making very good money and my career leaped ahead and I got to work in some of the best jobs in aviation.
I would like to think that hard work and never having had an accident was partly responsible for my eventual success.
But I do believe that the main reason I finally made it was people trusted me to do what I said I would do.
Bonds were never a concern during my career as I was never asked to sign one.
And I did it all with having only finished grade eight.
Does that help you understand why I said grade eight was sufficient to be a working pilot?
There were as many pilots for each job available when I started as there is today and the cost for training was about the same as today when compared to what we made working outside of aviation.
It was a long difficult road from getting my commercial license to the point in my career where my pay was sufficient to live a decent life style.
As the years passed my ability to earn more improved but it was not until I was in my sixties that I was making very good money and my career leaped ahead and I got to work in some of the best jobs in aviation.
I would like to think that hard work and never having had an accident was partly responsible for my eventual success.
But I do believe that the main reason I finally made it was people trusted me to do what I said I would do.
Bonds were never a concern during my career as I was never asked to sign one.
And I did it all with having only finished grade eight.
Does that help you understand why I said grade eight was sufficient to be a working pilot?
From my experience pilots and doctors have nothing in common, but pilots do have something in common with other operators of machinery, flying definitely requires more training than driving a bus or truck though.So tell me , who do we as pilots compare to , not doctors as according to Cat grade eight will do
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Hawkerflyer
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Re: Training bond case law.
Yes, but I know a few doctors that own airplanes and fly them too! 
"Six of us broke formation, five Jerries and I". - George "Buzz" Beurling
Re: Training bond case law.
Why do you need to compare our job and industry to anything else? It has similarities with some other industries, and other similarities with others. If you want to compare yourself to others, ask yourself (since people like to compare to doctors for some reason, which is why I talked about doctors in my last post), do doctors wonder what other industry is similar to theirs?
What we do is completely different from anything else, just like every other industry is unique in its own way.
What we do is completely different from anything else, just like every other industry is unique in its own way.
Re: Training bond case law.
I don't get it. Why would you spend $60,000 for your training, knowing full well that when you're done you will in all likely hood make less than minimum wage? Please spare me the "I have a passion/it's in my blood" stuff. Are people really that clueless about the outlook/prospects at the end of their training? There are non flying jobs out there that will allow you to make a very good living and afford to fly whenever you want as a hobby. What am I missing?
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cdnpilot77
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Re: Training bond case law.
Why do people become doctors, lawyers, politicians, businessmen, salesmen, entrepreneurs etc etc etc....everyone has their own reason and yes, mine was for a passion that began before I could talk. The greatest day in my life thus far was when I picked up that "substandard" pay cheque for flying an airplane. I now make a good wage for flying an airplane, so was it worth it, would I do it again....hell yeah, in a heartbeat and probably quickerkevenv wrote:I don't get it. Why would you spend $60,000 for your training, knowing full well that when you're done you will in all likely hood make less than minimum wage? Please spare me the "I have a passion/it's in my blood" stuff. Are people really that clueless about the outlook/prospects at the end of their training? There are non flying jobs out there that will allow you to make a very good living and afford to fly whenever you want as a hobby. What am I missing?
Re: Training bond case law.
It's a contract, which both parties receive a benefit from. You and the company agree to enter into a legally binding contract. You receive an offer from the company training for x months of paid work. You accept. The company gets x month of paid work from you as compensation for the training. This isn't slave labour, if you don't want the training, don't sign that you'll pay for it by working for them.outsider wrote:Training bonds are unethical and a way for operators to get you the pilot to help offset their training cost. They are in my opinion wrong and should be deemed by the law as illegal. It equates to a new form of slave labor. And we as pilots are weak and gullible enough to sign them without blinking. You go to flight school and finish owing 50 to 60 thousand dollars. Then maybe you work as a rampy for a year or more. Then you finally get your break and have to finance your own type rating. Not to mention the starting salary of an average Canadian pilot is so low its laughable. I would like to hear an Air Operator come on here and defend it. Please no more air crew defending bonds. Your boss or manager is big and ugly enough to defend their despicable labor practices. Ok bring on the insults.
Just like almost any other field (law, medicine, anything involving post-secondary education, etc), there are costs associated with training. In some cases you can get through relatively cheaply. In others, you pay through the nose. If you're unwilling to accept that, don't become a pilot. If you didn't know about it before you got involved, you should have researched more.
As others have stated, there are companies out there who don't require training bonds. If you find the bonds to be unacceptable, don't work for a company which requires them.
no sig because apparently quoting people in context is offensive to them.
Re: Training bond case law.
The cost of doing business is training the pilots annually on the aircraft type, so 2 – 3 ground schools/month with associated flight training costs; add the odd initial in there for attrition, depending on industry demand. Back in the day... you needed around 5,000 hours before anyone would look at you so there was no need for training bonds, because you stayed around for a while anyways.
Now-a-days, Little Joey wants to live in Toronto or Montreal close to home. He doesn’t have the qualifications to fly the a/c close to home so comes north. After getting the training and experience you’ve supplied to enhance his qualifications to fly your airplane – has now made him more marketable and he can go back home now. Initial training costs every other month because all the Little Joey’s want the training but don’t want to work; you now have become a training school – that is not the cost of doing business!
Little Joey stays and works for you, he doesn’t have to pay for his training; he leaves – he pays. I might add that our training contract doesn’t even cover the cost of fuel, let alone aircraft and instructor – it’s just enough to make the employee think twice before moving sideways. We even had one pilot leave the day after his PPC ride, aircraft grounded and/or major schedule changes for everyone until a new pilot can be hired and trained again. You guys have done it to yourselves!
I don’t know why you say these companies don’t pay well outsider – you could pay 100 grand a year and the young guys are still going to leave for bigger/better/faster equipment. You keep your established employees by paying well, supplying good benefits, and lifestyle – who ten years ago signed the training agreement and stayed and have never had to pay for their training.
Now-a-days, Little Joey wants to live in Toronto or Montreal close to home. He doesn’t have the qualifications to fly the a/c close to home so comes north. After getting the training and experience you’ve supplied to enhance his qualifications to fly your airplane – has now made him more marketable and he can go back home now. Initial training costs every other month because all the Little Joey’s want the training but don’t want to work; you now have become a training school – that is not the cost of doing business!
Little Joey stays and works for you, he doesn’t have to pay for his training; he leaves – he pays. I might add that our training contract doesn’t even cover the cost of fuel, let alone aircraft and instructor – it’s just enough to make the employee think twice before moving sideways. We even had one pilot leave the day after his PPC ride, aircraft grounded and/or major schedule changes for everyone until a new pilot can be hired and trained again. You guys have done it to yourselves!
I don’t know why you say these companies don’t pay well outsider – you could pay 100 grand a year and the young guys are still going to leave for bigger/better/faster equipment. You keep your established employees by paying well, supplying good benefits, and lifestyle – who ten years ago signed the training agreement and stayed and have never had to pay for their training.
Re: Training bond case law.
Disagree. There will always be those that don't want to stay up North, can't blame them, home is not there it's south (for me anyway). But if the wages and working conditions were good many would stay for more than you'd think.
Listen, it doesn't have to be this way and shouldn't. The only reason bonds exist is because we as pilots have allowed it to. I was part of the problem I admit but now that I'm older and wiser I want things to change for those younger than me. The cost of doing buiness is just that, a cost. If all pilots today agreed to never sign another bond again guess what would happen? There would be no more bonds and we'd all still have jobs. The cost of chartering aircraft might go up but the sky wouldn't fall infact it might be a little more blue as you wouldn't have to pay out your training if you chose to leave and operators would have to pay pilots better for them to stay.
Pilots do not realize until much older that we are a highly specialized work force. If we all refused to step into an airplane NOTHING would fly. We are NOT easily replaced as it takes at least 2 years to get a guy off the street to an FO level. We have all the leverage except decide not to use it. That is our biggest problem, ourselves.
Listen, it doesn't have to be this way and shouldn't. The only reason bonds exist is because we as pilots have allowed it to. I was part of the problem I admit but now that I'm older and wiser I want things to change for those younger than me. The cost of doing buiness is just that, a cost. If all pilots today agreed to never sign another bond again guess what would happen? There would be no more bonds and we'd all still have jobs. The cost of chartering aircraft might go up but the sky wouldn't fall infact it might be a little more blue as you wouldn't have to pay out your training if you chose to leave and operators would have to pay pilots better for them to stay.
Pilots do not realize until much older that we are a highly specialized work force. If we all refused to step into an airplane NOTHING would fly. We are NOT easily replaced as it takes at least 2 years to get a guy off the street to an FO level. We have all the leverage except decide not to use it. That is our biggest problem, ourselves.
https://eresonatemedia.com/
https://bambaits.ca/
https://youtube.com/channel/UCWit8N8YCJSvSaiSw5EWWeQ
https://bambaits.ca/
https://youtube.com/channel/UCWit8N8YCJSvSaiSw5EWWeQ
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Shotgun Chuck McCoy
- Rank 1
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Re: Training bond case law.
Roam82 (and others that may be legitimately wondering)...
First, if you pay up front for your training, you are making your own bed; be prepared to lie in it. If you are signing an agreement to pay for costs agreed upon, should you leave early, be prepared to honor that agreement, should there be no drastically extenuating circumstances. If you aren't I would strongly suggest you thank the company for their time, and move on to something that better meets your requirements. You may actually do yourself credit with a company by being respectful of them while standing by your own beliefs.
If you read the links posted to the CanLII site, you will gain valuable insight as to how the proceedings regarding training bonds will go in court. In fact, if you read the info there you will see that one of the individuals did not even sign a contract, but rather made a verbal agreement, and that was held up in court.
However, with some further reading, you will come across the term "constructive dismissal", in the case about the Captain who claimed to have been forced to resign due to the safety concerns that he had about his F/O. The Judge decided it was bunk, but if circumstances at your place of work change so drastically after you sign the bond, you may be able to fight the case in court (should you decide to leave), on the grounds that you were constructively dismissed. However, I am not a lawyer, and I only know what happened in my own situation.
It is my suspicion that if you already work for the company and did not have to sign a bond at first, but now you are being asked to sign a bond for training on an aircraft regardless of whether or not you are presently flying this aircraft, that this would already constitute a constructive dismissal. Hence, if you signed the bond, you would then have accepted the new terms of employment, and be legally obligated to pay the pro-rated costs of training if you left before time period of the bond was finished.
To get an idea of what exactly constitutes a constructive dismissal, I suggest contacting your province's legal aid society. In BC, it is the Legal Services Society, BC: http://www.lss.bc.ca/. There are conditions you must meet in order to be eligible for legal aid, but it never hurts to look into these things. I imagine most provinces have some sort of provision for legal advice for those who cannot afford a lawyer, and since you are a pilot...
I have had a little go-around in the past with a company over the "constructive dismissal" issue - I didn't even want to jump ship, I just wanted to re-negotiate the terms of my bond, which, thankfully, I was able to do since the Chief was a very reasonable individual and took the time and had the compassion to understand my point of view. Also, I never paid a cent for anything, they just wanted to be re-reimbursed for outstanding costs if I left early; a legitimate concern in this day and age. As a bit of a post comment qualifier, I was being paid enough to afford rent, food, and hygiene supplies with a little left over for refreshment once every few weeks. If you sign a bond and accept unreasonably low pay, then decide to head out to greener pastures and get stuck with the costs, you shouldn't have signed in the first place or you should accept the responsibility. Not nice, but it's real life.
I looked for work for 3 years after getting my CPL, and then turned down a couple of jobs after I was returning from a stint away from aviation due to unreasonable bond conditions (usually the pay for the job). I was prepared to and did work as a lackey at non-industry jobs in the mean time rather than putting myself in a position where I knew I would be doing myself and our line of work an injustice by accepting a job just to gain experience, while agreeing to terms of employment that would not allow me to afford to make my student loan payments, have a roof over my head, and eat and clean myself. I did not have financial support from anyone but myself, and times were tight, but I made many valuable connections in my life, and the employers I did work for were excellent and we did and still do have respect for each-other.
In closing, if you are trying to lay the groundwork so that you can cut-and-run for no other reason than you are expecting a call from the next step up the ladder, I would again refer you to the CanLII links posted here. If you are concerned that your company has big changes in the works that will involve changes to how or how much you are paid, or the time that you must be available to work, or the way in which you are scheduled (and those issues were mentioned directly in your initial employment contract) and you believe that you might be getting handed the shaft, you may have some footing on which to stand. But don't, please don't, for your own self-respect, and for the integrity of us as a group, back out on a legitimate commitment and try to make it someone else's fault. If you don't like it, a very wise man once said to me, "you were looking for a job when you found that one". You will not have anything to be sorry for if you were honest with your company and with yourself, but just couldn't agree to the bond and ended up leaving. Disagreement does not mean you are an a$$ho1e.
First, if you pay up front for your training, you are making your own bed; be prepared to lie in it. If you are signing an agreement to pay for costs agreed upon, should you leave early, be prepared to honor that agreement, should there be no drastically extenuating circumstances. If you aren't I would strongly suggest you thank the company for their time, and move on to something that better meets your requirements. You may actually do yourself credit with a company by being respectful of them while standing by your own beliefs.
If you read the links posted to the CanLII site, you will gain valuable insight as to how the proceedings regarding training bonds will go in court. In fact, if you read the info there you will see that one of the individuals did not even sign a contract, but rather made a verbal agreement, and that was held up in court.
However, with some further reading, you will come across the term "constructive dismissal", in the case about the Captain who claimed to have been forced to resign due to the safety concerns that he had about his F/O. The Judge decided it was bunk, but if circumstances at your place of work change so drastically after you sign the bond, you may be able to fight the case in court (should you decide to leave), on the grounds that you were constructively dismissed. However, I am not a lawyer, and I only know what happened in my own situation.
It is my suspicion that if you already work for the company and did not have to sign a bond at first, but now you are being asked to sign a bond for training on an aircraft regardless of whether or not you are presently flying this aircraft, that this would already constitute a constructive dismissal. Hence, if you signed the bond, you would then have accepted the new terms of employment, and be legally obligated to pay the pro-rated costs of training if you left before time period of the bond was finished.
To get an idea of what exactly constitutes a constructive dismissal, I suggest contacting your province's legal aid society. In BC, it is the Legal Services Society, BC: http://www.lss.bc.ca/. There are conditions you must meet in order to be eligible for legal aid, but it never hurts to look into these things. I imagine most provinces have some sort of provision for legal advice for those who cannot afford a lawyer, and since you are a pilot...
I have had a little go-around in the past with a company over the "constructive dismissal" issue - I didn't even want to jump ship, I just wanted to re-negotiate the terms of my bond, which, thankfully, I was able to do since the Chief was a very reasonable individual and took the time and had the compassion to understand my point of view. Also, I never paid a cent for anything, they just wanted to be re-reimbursed for outstanding costs if I left early; a legitimate concern in this day and age. As a bit of a post comment qualifier, I was being paid enough to afford rent, food, and hygiene supplies with a little left over for refreshment once every few weeks. If you sign a bond and accept unreasonably low pay, then decide to head out to greener pastures and get stuck with the costs, you shouldn't have signed in the first place or you should accept the responsibility. Not nice, but it's real life.
I looked for work for 3 years after getting my CPL, and then turned down a couple of jobs after I was returning from a stint away from aviation due to unreasonable bond conditions (usually the pay for the job). I was prepared to and did work as a lackey at non-industry jobs in the mean time rather than putting myself in a position where I knew I would be doing myself and our line of work an injustice by accepting a job just to gain experience, while agreeing to terms of employment that would not allow me to afford to make my student loan payments, have a roof over my head, and eat and clean myself. I did not have financial support from anyone but myself, and times were tight, but I made many valuable connections in my life, and the employers I did work for were excellent and we did and still do have respect for each-other.
In closing, if you are trying to lay the groundwork so that you can cut-and-run for no other reason than you are expecting a call from the next step up the ladder, I would again refer you to the CanLII links posted here. If you are concerned that your company has big changes in the works that will involve changes to how or how much you are paid, or the time that you must be available to work, or the way in which you are scheduled (and those issues were mentioned directly in your initial employment contract) and you believe that you might be getting handed the shaft, you may have some footing on which to stand. But don't, please don't, for your own self-respect, and for the integrity of us as a group, back out on a legitimate commitment and try to make it someone else's fault. If you don't like it, a very wise man once said to me, "you were looking for a job when you found that one". You will not have anything to be sorry for if you were honest with your company and with yourself, but just couldn't agree to the bond and ended up leaving. Disagreement does not mean you are an a$$ho1e.
What!??! Who said that?!?!
Re: Training bond case law.
So teacher enlighten us, when you say you were part of the problem do you mean because you signed a bond or becaused you shafted your employer by taking the training and running?teacher wrote:Listen, it doesn't have to be this way and shouldn't. The only reason bonds exist is because we as pilots have allowed it to. I was part of the problem I admit but now that I'm older and wiser I want things to change for those younger than me. The cost of doing buiness is just that, a cost. If all pilots today agreed to never sign another bond again guess what would happen? There would be no more bonds and we'd all still have jobs. The cost of chartering aircraft might go up but the sky wouldn't fall infact it might be a little more blue as you wouldn't have to pay out your training if you chose to leave and operators would have to pay pilots better for them to stay.
Pilots do not realize until much older that we are a highly specialized work force. If we all refused to step into an airplane NOTHING would fly. We are NOT easily replaced as it takes at least 2 years to get a guy off the street to an FO level. We have all the leverage except decide not to use it. That is our biggest problem, ourselves.
I love how people think they operate in a vacuum "If all pilots today agreed to never sign another bond again guess what would happen? There would be no more bonds and we'd all still have jobs." except the company might say no type rating no job. See the link below to Southwest or Emirates 3 yr.36k bond. Many major companies still want type rated pilots or you can join their cadet program read poor wages. If memory serves some of the Asia carreirs even had the government restrict their cadet's license to be good only at the training airline, you can never leave because they own your license.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... hwest.html
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... rates.html
Re: Training bond case law.
Teacher is 100% correct. All pilots every where must agree never to sign a training bond. We are highly trained , highly skilled sought after professional trades people. It is demeaning for us to pay cash up front for a training bond. Grow some balls and stand up and say "NO" this is disrespectful to me as a Crew Member. If we all agreed it would stop tomorrow.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Training bond case law.
Unfortunately you need to be " further " trained and it costs money.We are highly trained , highly skilled sought after professional trades people.
A bond with no money up front is nothing more or less than an insurance policy for the company paying for your training.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Training bond case law.
Maybe I need to be further trained , but I won't be coming to you with cap in hand begging for a minimum wage job. I have more respect for myself than that. So take you job and stick it. I'd rather pour double doubles at Tim's. At least they offer a uniform. Maybe you are the one that needs a refresher. Free refills.
Re: Training bond case law.
This thread wasn't about knowing if training bonds are a necessity or not. The answer is stupidly clear. Training bonds are necessary for any cie that what to invest thousands of $ on someone they barely know. If everything is made honestly I have absolutly no problem with that. What makes me want to puke is when training bonds are used as a way to a$$ f--k your employees.
I think to rectify the problem they should included more info like working conditions, salary etc like the employement contract mentionned.
by the way I've never paid for training and never will, I guess I was smart enought to make it to a public school.
R.
I think to rectify the problem they should included more info like working conditions, salary etc like the employement contract mentionned.
by the way I've never paid for training and never will, I guess I was smart enought to make it to a public school.
R.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Training bond case law.
You sound like you are very stressed over this subject and are having difficulty coping with the reality of aviation in today's world.Maybe I need to be further trained , but I won't be coming to you with cap in hand begging for a minimum wage job. I have more respect for myself than that. So take you job and stick it. I'd rather pour double doubles at Tim's. At least they offer a uniform. Maybe you are the one that needs a refresher. Free refills
The reality is training bonds have become the norm and they were put in place by companies as insurance they do not spend money training a new pilot only to have the pilot leave before they get any return on their investment.
As to my needing a refresher...I don't think so for the simple reason I am retired and am through with needing training to fly for a living.
By the way during my career I was never ever asked to sign a training bond, in fact all my type ratings and even my helicopter license was paid for by my employers...
So step back and take a deep breath because your attitude is way off base here.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Training bond case law.
No need to brag about your career , I just need have a look at your 14000 plus post to get an idea of your superior skills and type ratings. I am quite happy in my career and don't want to see others hurt by unfair training bonds. If I flew a 172 or an A380 and all types in between or was half of what you boast about, I have nothing to prove to anyone on here , just sharing my ideas and thoughts on what is killing our industry. You are retired. You had your shot , don't help ruin it for others. So if I seemed displeased , its how passionate I feel about this issue. All one needs to do is look to job hiring practices in Europe to see where it is going here.
So long , im done with this. You waste your time helping those who can't help themselves. Good luck to all newcomers. I have a strong feeling your going to need all the help you can get.
So long , im done with this. You waste your time helping those who can't help themselves. Good luck to all newcomers. I have a strong feeling your going to need all the help you can get.
Re: Training bond case law.
Training Bonds. Or how companies brain washed pilots into thinking they were a necessity. Imagine. Pilots having the gall to leave for greener pastures. Happens in EVERY industry. Most industries have training expenses. Aviation ain't special.
Training bonds are here, simply because pilots don't have the BALLS not to sign them!
I say again....for every pilot YOU can name that left a company with a fresh PPC, I can name five companies that have fucked over a pilot...or several pilots.
Stop signing these things, you jam-tart wimps!
A company that treats their pilots properly, needs no stinking bond!
Training bonds are here, simply because pilots don't have the BALLS not to sign them!
I say again....for every pilot YOU can name that left a company with a fresh PPC, I can name five companies that have fucked over a pilot...or several pilots.
Stop signing these things, you jam-tart wimps!
A company that treats their pilots properly, needs no stinking bond!
